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vsa with Malcolm

  • #23,461
  • Dec 18, 2012 12:45pm Dec 18, 2012 12:45pm
Quoting Gxp1
Hi HG,
what is a hidden test supposed to achieve? ie whats the point of SM for this move?
Not HG but since I am here I will offer up a reply.

Hidden test is simply a product of the bar closing as an upbar rather than a downbar which is what a "true" test is supposed to be. This is the same as when we see UT or hidden UT, again simply a product of the close.

The ultimate endgame is the same IMHO for a test and a hidden test... they either pass or fail.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,462
  • Dec 18, 2012 12:48pm Dec 18, 2012 12:48pm
Quoting gez40
...The founder of hawkeye is Nigel Hawkes, he and Tom Williams used to be business partners when they developed the first vsa software, i think it was called Genie. They then went different ways, Tom with tradeguider Nigel with hawkeye...
Really? I did not know this.

I don't know a lot about Hawkeye, but it looks like it's just a bunch of technical indicators. Only one of which is volume based.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,463
  • Dec 18, 2012 1:00pm Dec 18, 2012 1:00pm
Quoting Gxp1
Hi HG,
what is a hidden test supposed to achieve? ie whats the point of SM for this move?
Great question!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, my answer may not be so great.

VSA starts with the "ideal". The "ideal" states that weakness when it appears will appear on an UP bar. And strength when it appears will appear on a DOWN bar.

As we know, the markets can be less than ideal.

So we have things like Up Thrusts that come on level or down bars. We see Tests that come on level or up bars. In the case of an Up Thrust on a down bar, we call it "HIDDEN". Hidden simply means the bar does not match the ideal. If we are looking for an Up close but the market closes down instead, we say that the Up Thrust is still valid but it is just "hidden" by the smart money to keep from being so obvious (or too textbook).

Same thing with a Hidden Test. No special meaning. Just a close opposite of what we would like to ideally see.

EDIT: If you happen to see older versions of TG, you will not see signals on things like Hidden Tests or Hidden Up Thrusts. Early TG and Genie Chartist only used ideal bars. That's why these older versions give so few signals when compared to the newer versions of the software.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,464
  • Dec 18, 2012 1:19pm Dec 18, 2012 1:19pm
I've been busy today so wasn't at the charts. We finally hit that 1.3190 PnF target anyway! The target came from the 21st November so it took its time to play out.

I flicked through some of that TG PnF vid but haven't watched all of it yet, saw some interesting/strange bits and pieces though, but will wait until i've watched through all of it before commenting.
  • #23,465
  • Dec 18, 2012 2:22pm Dec 18, 2012 2:22pm
Quoting Intel
As far as entries are concerned:-

Short on bar 4 - not sure from the chart whether TP would have hit or not....looks close.
Long 2 bars before bar 10 is also a possibility.
HG

Just out of interest, would you check if my short trade would have worked please. Usual targets:-

Enter at low of ND
SL at UT +2
TP at SL - entry

Thanks
  • #23,466
  • Dec 18, 2012 2:41pm Dec 18, 2012 2:41pm
Quoting pres78
Not HG but since I am here I will offer up a reply.

Hidden test is simply a product of the bar closing as an upbar rather than a downbar which is what a "true" test is supposed to be. This is the same as when we see UT or hidden UT, again simply a product of the close.

The ultimate endgame is the same IMHO for a test and a hidden test... they either pass or fail.
Thanks
  • #23,467
  • Dec 18, 2012 2:49pm Dec 18, 2012 2:49pm
Quoting Intel
HG

Just out of interest, would you check if my short trade would have worked please. Usual targets:-

Enter at low of ND
SL at UT +2
TP at SL - entry

Thanks
It looks like it would have indeed worked.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,468
  • Dec 18, 2012 2:57pm Dec 18, 2012 2:57pm
Quoting HiddenGap
It looks like it would have indeed worked.
Ah good. Must have been close.

Many thanks
  • #23,469
  • Dec 18, 2012 4:14pm Dec 18, 2012 4:14pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Really? I did not know this.

I don't know a lot about Hawkeye, but it looks like it's just a bunch of technical indicators. Only one of which is volume based.
There was a nice comment about the relationship between Tom and Nigel on one of Gavin`s videos on youtube, it lasted for about an hour before it got deleted, well I guess they are in competition with each other.
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #23,470
  • Dec 18, 2012 6:39pm Dec 18, 2012 6:39pm
Quoting pres78

You really seem to have your definitions mixed up and are confusing high volume bars with low volume bars. Time to hit Master the Markets again to get the bar types straightened away. Until you get some of the basic bars like SO, UT, ND, NS or tests clear in your head VSA will seem like a foreign language and you will struggle to read the charts.
Yea, after I had posted this comment I realized I made the wrong assumption. I have noticed on some threads that if indeed no supply and no demand follow this rule of lower volume than the previous two then a few threads do have this wrong. And when you say demand swamping supply or use the term swamping, i have not heard it used this way before. Thanks, Yea I need to do more reading. I think I'll get it, eventually. Still going over these threads. Thanks!
  • #23,471
  • Dec 18, 2012 6:40pm Dec 18, 2012 6:40pm
eur/usd 5 minute chart is that an up thrust bar at 0:25 gmt its not into new highs but its back into signs of weakness?

WENDIGO
  • #23,472
  • Dec 18, 2012 6:43pm Dec 18, 2012 6:43pm
Quoting wendigo
eur/usd 5 minute chart is that an up thrust bar at 0:25 gmt its not into new highs but its back into signs of weakness?

WENDIGO
or is it a test of supply?

WENDIGO
  • #23,473
  • Dec 18, 2012 6:49pm Dec 18, 2012 6:49pm
Quoting wendigo
eur/usd 5 minute chart is that an up thrust bar at 0:25 gmt its not into new highs but its back into signs of weakness?

WENDIGO
It's an Up Thrust indeed.

That does not mean you go short, but it is an Up Thrust.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,474
  • Dec 18, 2012 7:08pm Dec 18, 2012 7:08pm
yeah hg i dont trade this time of day anyway just making sure my pattern recognition skills are correct lol

WENDIGO
  • #23,475
  • Dec 18, 2012 7:12pm Dec 18, 2012 7:12pm
So what should we be looking for to short HG?

Its held above 1.3215 for the last 8 hours - distribution or re-accumulation?

Jamie


Quoting HiddenGap
It's an Up Thrust indeed.

That does not mean you go short, but it is an Up Thrust.
  • #23,476
  • Dec 19, 2012 5:20am Dec 19, 2012 5:20am
Quoting gez40
Gold daily, ignore the sunday candle.

1: supply enters the market and knocks price sideways a bit, some strength comes in on the last 2 down bars and price starts to rise.

2/3: market tries to go up on no demand.

4: some strength appears

5: no demand/upthrust type bar right at trigger number from previous supply/demand bars

6: no demand bar at same trigger numbers, look at the low volume on the previous up bars

7: upthrust

My question is, how did i do? and how would you have traded this? bar 5 would have been a great r/r entry,...
Update to the above post:

Looks like the entry on the upthrust at 7 would have given a 2:1 R/R with the entry at the low and the stop at the high.
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Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #23,477
  • Dec 19, 2012 5:38am Dec 19, 2012 5:38am
Quoting jamielee
So what should we be looking for to short HG?

Its held above 1.3215 for the last 8 hours - distribution or re-accumulation?

Jamie
Kinda the point of the last 1500 or so pages explaining when to short.

Check out this post, probably in my top 10 of posts for this thread.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...42#post4024442
  • #23,478
  • Dec 20, 2012 12:10pm Dec 20, 2012 12:10pm
Just a chart dump.

But I am sure that many of the "senior" members of this thread will click on the link in the above post and determine what intervals correspond to the series described in the link.
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #23,479
  • Dec 20, 2012 12:55pm Dec 20, 2012 12:55pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Just a chart dump.

But I am sure that many of the "senior" members of this thread will click on the link in the above post and determine what intervals correspond to the series described in the link.
Now HG you've made it too easy (sort of but I left with more questions than answers)...

2 red squares and a red circle (or should I say the two red circles). 3 min chart EORM (for lack of a better definition) with 2 downbars after, UT with a downbar within 2, effort to rise / 2nd UT (some may call this ND) with 2 downbars after and then a true ND (second red circle)... easy peesy...

I am curious would you have traded the first red circle? It closed below the first UT which is the highest volume bar on the chart and this is an example of when is a bar ND even if volume is not less than the previous 2 bars? (also begs the question of ND that's not true ND even if the volume is less than the previous 2, but I'll save that for another post). It does go against your green chart mode and hull so I assume you would have waited for those to turn...

The issue I do see with that second red circle ND is that entry is not made within 2 bars...

Curious how you see the chart and entries.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #23,480
  • Dec 20, 2012 1:36pm Dec 20, 2012 1:36pm
Quoting pres78
Now HG you've made it too easy (sort of but I left with more questions than answers)...

2 red squares and a red circle (or should I say the two red circles). 3 min chart EORM (for lack of a better definition) with 2 downbars after, UT with a downbar within 2, effort to rise / 2nd UT (some may call this ND) with 2 downbars after and then a true ND (second red circle)... easy peesy...

I am curious would you have traded the first red circle? It closed below the first UT which is the highest volume bar on the chart and this is an example of when...
You might want to post your chart as well!!
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