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Paul Tudor Jones- "Trader"

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 15, 2012 4:59pm Dec 15, 2012 4:59pm
A documentary about Paul Jones as a hedge fund manager back in the 80s (pre 1987 crash). This video is very rare since it has been pulled out due to copyright issues.

There are many lessons you can gain from this. One favorite of mine is

"Where you want to be is always in control, never wishing, always trading, and always first and foremost protecting your ass. That’s why most people lose money as individual investors or traders because they’re not focusing on losing money. They need to focus on the money that they have at risk and how much capital is at risk in any single investment they have. If everyone spent 90 percent of their time on that, not 90 percent of the time on pie-in-the-sky ideas on how much money they’re going to make. Then they will be incredibly successful investors."

I don't know how long the video will last..so enjoy it soon.

http://eminiaddict.com/?p=5592
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  • #2
  • Dec 15, 2012 7:16pm Dec 15, 2012 7:16pm
Thanks for the share, going to have a watch!
  • #3
  • Dec 15, 2012 7:41pm Dec 15, 2012 7:41pm
I will give it 4 days from now, best thing is to do what I have done in the past: download it and store it on your own computer.
  • #4
  • Dec 15, 2012 8:16pm Dec 15, 2012 8:16pm
So I just got done watching this, and I have some comments to make. It starts off with some popular advice on limiting risk and "watching your ass" above everything else, but he seems to trade based on fundamentals or vague technicals (in particular, Elliott Wave Theory) and never really discusses what he does to limit risk. Highly emotional, high stress, and entirely possible his success is pure luck. Another trader even mentions how they went bankrupt multiple times and had friends buy them back in....what kind of risk management can that possibly entail? If I've learned anything from this video it's what I don't want to do, but additionally it's also done a great job of showing how trading has changed with the internet age and how much easier it is to access the markets anymore.
  • #5
  • Dec 15, 2012 9:08pm Dec 15, 2012 9:08pm
Quoting Kanzler
So I just got done watching this, and I have some comments to make. It starts off with some popular advice on limiting risk and "watching your ass" above everything else, but he seems to trade based on fundamentals or vague technicals (in particular, Elliott Wave Theory) and never really discusses what he does to limit risk.
it's an underwhelming documentary. it's not a trading education tool, it's just a snapshot in the life of ptj. as to the 'fundamentals or vague technicals'... you almost sound surprised he isn't trading on an EMA cross. the 'elliott wave' sounds wrong. the voiceover says this, but what the guys ACTUALLY say is they base an expectation of future movement on similar situations in the past. i didn't see any plotting of A waves and B waves and C waves etc etc, so maybe just take that part with a grain of salt because what they showed does not sound, to me, like what people today refer to by elliott wave theory where they start chanting to a triangle wearing robes and sketching pyramids on their charts with aliens living on the moon... so to speak.

it is shown that he pays a lot of attention to what is happening globally and trades according to expected outcomes, not staring at lines drawn on a chart. whatever amount of 'elliott wave' he actually uses is probably little more than an excuse to put money on the line, but coupled with external factors that make or break a trade.

Quote
Highly emotional, high stress, and entirely possible his success is pure luck. Another trader even mentions how they went bankrupt multiple times and had friends buy them back in....what kind of risk management can that possibly entail?
that guy looked like a he was nothing but a floor pleb who was just typical fodder, much like retail traders today. that's life. the guy probably had some winning streaks and did all of the classic shit that rookies to this day still subscribe to, lasted for awhile, and then imploded as is expected eventually.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #6
  • Dec 15, 2012 9:56pm Dec 15, 2012 9:56pm
Guys voice sounds just like Kevin Costner!!!!!!
  • #7
  • Dec 15, 2012 10:40pm Dec 15, 2012 10:40pm
Quoting nubcake
it's an underwhelming documentary. it's not a trading education tool, it's just a snapshot in the life of ptj. as to the 'fundamentals or vague technicals'... you almost sound surprised he isn't trading on an EMA cross. the 'elliott wave' sounds wrong. the voiceover says this, but what the guys ACTUALLY say is they base an expectation of future movement on similar situations in the past. i didn't see any plotting of A waves and B waves and C waves etc etc, so maybe just take that part with a grain of salt because what they showed does not sound,...
I guess I expected something a little better given the whole start with "risking ten cents to make eight dollars" spiel. It had my hopes up. Yeah I knew the 1920 correlation wasn't EWT, I was just pulling that from the video and made a probably poor assumption that he used EWT additionally, which I agree is complete retrospective bullshit in the first place but that's probably something for a different thread.

By the 1980s I am a little surprised there's not more technical analysis going on; I know it was still being laughed at quite a bit but my perception of that era was that it was picking up steam.
  • #8
  • Dec 15, 2012 11:02pm Dec 15, 2012 11:02pm
Quoting Kanzler
I guess I expected something a little better given the whole start with "risking ten cents to make eight dollars" spiel. It had my hopes up. Yeah I knew the 1920 correlation wasn't EWT, I was just pulling that from the video and made a probably poor assumption that he used EWT additionally, which I agree is complete retrospective bullshit in the first place but that's probably something for a different thread.
There is something to the psychology of the masses which help create cycles, but to try and predict turning points by labeling waves with little alphabetical letters is complete bulls--t. Even though major cycles have similarities, they also have their differences and each one is affected by a unique combination of circumstances. The proportion of the different types of traders and market participants is also unique during each cycle. The biggest thing a trader should be concerned about is the risk. How much do I have to lose? What is my exposure and how much can it hurt me? After those calculations are complete you just focus on your marks.
  • #9
  • Dec 15, 2012 11:20pm Dec 15, 2012 11:20pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
There is something to the psychology of the masses which help create cycles, but to try and predict turning points by labeling waves with little alphabetical letters is complete bulls--t. Even though major cycles have similarities, they also have their differences and each one is affected by a unique combination of circumstances. The proportion of the different types of traders and market participants is also unique during each cycle. The biggest thing a trader should be concerned about is the risk. How much do I have to lose? What is my exposure...
Since the can of worms is open my big obvious gripe with EWT is that it always looks great in hindsight but actively it's not possible to tell what's going on because the market is fractal....which wave counts as which one? Not only that, but which pattern is it going to follow? Only with the benefit of a complete past can one subjectively assign wave counts. I read somewhere that two big gurus on EWT couldn't even agree on a wavecount, and the fact that Elliott himself never capitalized on his own ideas should be the final nail in the wave count coffin.
  • #10
  • Dec 16, 2012 12:05am Dec 16, 2012 12:05am
Different era, different KEY SUCCESS. Be creative, dont be follower. If you focus on risk to much and all the time, it will happen to you. Anything you focus on intensely will come true to you. Be wise. Not all what the "successful" trader's word may be followed. each era has its own KEY SUCCESS.
Regards,
Anton
  • #11
  • Edited 3:11am Dec 16, 2012 2:56am | Edited 3:11am
Quoting Kanzler
Highly emotional, high stress, and entirely possible his success is pure luck.

that's my view also. trading can be very different than this.

Quoting nubcake
you almost sound surprised he isn't trading on an EMA cross.
actually if i had to choose between what he's doing and an ema cross i would choose the ema cross.
  • #12
  • Dec 16, 2012 3:25am Dec 16, 2012 3:25am
Quoting Kanzler
... Highly emotional, high stress, and entirely possible his success is pure luck. ...

You call this luck?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...in-decade.html
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #13
  • Dec 16, 2012 3:49am Dec 16, 2012 3:49am
Its never impossible
We have to make it a possibility .
They made it so can we
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X-man the legendary conqueror of markets
  • #14
  • Dec 16, 2012 4:20am Dec 16, 2012 4:20am
Quoting X-Man
Its never impossible
We have to make it a possibility .
They made it so can we
This is how.
1) first and foremost don't suck at trading too much. You must have a bait...you must show some success but nothing special is more than sufficient
2) Your success will come from 99.9 % promotion, self-advertising, you must be an extraordinary salesman and marketeer to attract OPM
3) Once you have those OPM millions,,, then you made it! You are a trading legend..
  • #15
  • Dec 16, 2012 7:02am Dec 16, 2012 7:02am
I just finished watching the video. It seems to me that Paul Tudor Jones used a risk level of 5% back in those days? The video shows him going through a few trades. In the first trade, he goes long and loses 5-6% in a single trade.
  • #16
  • Dec 18, 2012 10:39am Dec 18, 2012 10:39am
Watching that video was like watching NBA players from the 50's.
  • #17
  • Dec 18, 2012 11:29am Dec 18, 2012 11:29am
One of the biggest traders EVER...
  • #18
  • Dec 18, 2012 12:07pm Dec 18, 2012 12:07pm
Quoting mima
You call this luck?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...in-decade.html
He probably doesn't rely on luck, but the video gives the viewer that impression as it really never says anything useful about his strategy; you see lots of shouting, excitement, and other content to boost the entertainment value.
  • #19
  • Dec 18, 2012 12:51pm Dec 18, 2012 12:51pm
Here's a link from businessinsider.com about the documentary:

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-...entary-2011-10
  • #20
  • Jan 30, 2013 10:18am Jan 30, 2013 10:18am
OMG...it's gone..all gone!

I was gonna save it to my computer somehow..anybody has a copy of it??
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