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Sharing: I know my method works, but I just can't follow it through

  • #21
  • Nov 29, 2012 5:09am Nov 29, 2012 5:09am
Hi kk007,
If you have a method work, try to master the inner game. I love tennis and the mental fitness of tennis game the same trading game.

How to Be an Imperfect Trader: Perfection is the goal for a lot of traders. But in the end, this pursuit can be a heavy weight that pulls your game down.

http://www.active.com/tennis/Article...nis-Player.htm

How to Bounce Back From a Big Loss: Have you ever experienced a big loss in a trade and found it difficult to regain your confidence or motivation to keep trading and working towards your goal?

http://www.active.com/tennis/Article...a_Big_Loss.htm

  • #22
  • Nov 29, 2012 6:05am Nov 29, 2012 6:05am
I do the following:

1) Back test my strategy for at least 2k candles. This has to be manually and takes A LOT of work. It also means you have to force yourself to be HONEST while doing it. Don't try to make trades "fit", brutally apply your exact entry/exit rules. If you're cheating here, you are essentially setting yourself up for failure.

2) Forward test my strategy for as long as it takes to capture ALL different market environments...as in: trending and ranging markets. Many strategies don't work well in both situations, so it's necessary to make sure all your gains during one situation (for example, trending markets) aren't wiped out when conditions change.

3) Automate exits. That way I won't ever be tempted to override my strategy and I can solely focus on entries. I love being able to simply look for entries, and once I'm in trades I can simply walk away. Frees up a lot of time and helps me to prevent the dreaded "it might still go my way".

I also think these 3 points are areas where a lot of traders fail...either due to laziness (aka not doing the work required), or because they cheat by not honestly applying the system.

I work in real estate investment, so a lot of the things I use on a daily basis in my real life job is transferable to Forex trading. Probably gives me a slight edge and I got over the "it might still go my way" stuff pretty quickly. It also makes sure I treat the whole thing just like any other BUSINESS...because that's what it is.

Also explains why I get a bit annoyed at "Excel traders" sometimes...people who spend most of their time creating Excel sheets with profit forecasts instead of doing the real work it takes to become profitable. Every new trader seems to go through this, but it's sometimes annoying to see people waste so much time...especially if they insist t hat it's the right way...because it ISN'T.

Also, it helps a lot if you trade like an emotionless robot (same in real estate investment btw). You need to be OBJECTIVE when trading because if you're subjective you're essentially playing a guessing game, and that's never good.
  • #23
  • Nov 29, 2012 9:36pm Nov 29, 2012 9:36pm
Quoting Winston Reed
lack of ....
Do you have much more gross profit than gross loss usually?
  • #24
  • Nov 29, 2012 9:45pm Nov 29, 2012 9:45pm
Quoting nkune
Hi kk007,
If you have a method work, try to master the inner game. I love tennis and the mental fitness of tennis game the same trading game.

How to Be an Imperfect Trader: Perfection is the goal for a lot of traders. But in the end, this pursuit can be a heavy weight that pulls your game down.

http://www.active.com/tennis/Article...nis-Player.htm

How to Bounce Back From a Big Loss: Have you ever experienced a big loss in a trade and found it difficult to regain your confidence or motivation...
I don't play tennis, I just love the quote in the Mind Game book...
  • #25
  • Nov 29, 2012 9:46pm Nov 29, 2012 9:46pm
Quoting 4exNinja
I do the following:

1) Back test my strategy for at least 2k candles. This has to be manually and takes A LOT of work. It also means you have to force yourself to be HONEST while doing it. Don't try to make trades "fit", brutally apply your exact entry/exit rules. If you're cheating here, you are essentially setting yourself up for failure.

2) Forward test my strategy for as long as it takes to capture ALL different market environments...as in: trending and ranging markets. Many strategies don't work well in both situations, so it's necessary...
Thanks for your sharing... all walks of life here...
  • #26
  • Nov 29, 2012 11:45pm Nov 29, 2012 11:45pm
I just stopped caring. That also means I stopped worrying. I don't know if it made me a better trader, but my account started growing instead of shrinking, so I guess it has.

What kind of trading would stop you from caring/worrying?

Give it a try.
  • #27
  • Nov 30, 2012 12:28am Nov 30, 2012 12:28am
Other than the aforementioned points above in this post, for me another critical point is exiting a trade too early. Consistency is however key, so I do suppose ensuring you are in profit, and taking those profits are the most valid points.

Happy pips to all, ciao
  • #28
  • Nov 30, 2012 5:11am Nov 30, 2012 5:11am
Quoting kk007
I am trading patterns, moving averages and support/resistance currently. I haven't well documented my patterns and support/resistance methods very accurately, but for the moving average method. I use material on these 2 threads. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=224697, http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=236210
I can see by this post that your method does not work.

Sorry to tell you that but you are fooling yourself with a illusion of "having a method that works".

If you manage to stay in this business long enough to become prosper, many years in the future you will look back and see what I see now.
So, you think you have rights? LOL
  • #29
  • Nov 30, 2012 5:22am Nov 30, 2012 5:22am
Quoting ForexOracle
I can see by this post that your method does not work.

Sorry to tell you that but you are fooling yourself with a illusion of "having a method that works".

If you manage to stay in this business long enough to become prosper, many years in the future you will look back and see what I see now.
Any reasoning?
  • #30
  • Nov 30, 2012 6:31am Nov 30, 2012 6:31am
I've answered a post awhile back regarding "how long does it take to be a trader?".
I believe my answer would be the same to what you are asking here.
And that is "It would take as long as curing an addiction."

And there are no guarantees. There are no definite time frame. It is not a "one-size-fits-all".

Do you know how to change a habit/addiction?

 

  1. Have you ever notice how someone has been speaking English for many years yet still have an accent.
  2. Have you ever notice how someone has been typing on the computer for many years yet still haven't improved.
  3. And people's penmanship/handwriting for many years yet their handwriting is barely readable.

What makes trading a lot more complicated is that the lack of discipline is not just a habit, it is also due to an urge of impulse.
It is an equivalent of getting a boner and trying to prevent and calm that impulsive urge.


And this is where "life experience" comes in. Have you done enough in life to improve yourself? Examples are succeeding at losing weight, running or exercising daily, quit smoking, any other life experiences that requires disciplines such as body building or running a marathon, any accomplishments that required discipline such achieving new years resolutions.


I've said it in one of my other post also, "If you are not disciplined in eating healthy, exercising, or even being neat and tidy, where are you going to emulate discipline from and incorporate it to your trading?" Of course I'm not suggesting these 3 points, I'm simply suggesting that the best approach to tackle this problem is through one's life experience. If you can not think of one disciplinary success in your life, then it is time to take up a new challenge. Learn a new skill, start exercising, take a goal and be consistent about it, read books on personal development on how to change a habit and improving your life.


About your method... "Innocent until proven guilty."... Your method doesn't work, you haven't proven that it works.

Back in the early days, the Patent Office were filled with patents. They have stopped approving patents until you have a working prototype. Why?... because although it may look good and perfect on paper, they found out the it doesn't really work in real life after its construction. So remember, "Innocent until proven guilty."

  • #31
  • Nov 30, 2012 6:43am Nov 30, 2012 6:43am
Quoting kk007
Any reasoning?
You still didn't get it right?
Thats understandable, and as I told you above if you manage to stay around long enough you will hopefully get it.
So, you think you have rights? LOL
  • #32
  • Nov 30, 2012 6:49am Nov 30, 2012 6:49am
Quoting ForexOracle
You still didn't get it right?
Thats understandable, and as I told you above if you manage to stay around long enough you will hopefully get it.
then i have to guess. If you are talking about the doc, yes i have mine that i can understand. It is not so well presented that other can pick read and understand. Not sure if you was talking about it
  • #33
  • Nov 30, 2012 6:57am Nov 30, 2012 6:57am
Quoting CrucialPoint
I've answered a post awhile back regarding "how long does it take to be a trader?".
I believe my answer would be the same to what you are asking here.
And that is "It would take as long as curing an addiction."

And there are no guarantees. There are no definite time frame. It is not a "one-size-fits-all".

Do you know how to change a habit/addiction?
[list][*]Have you ever notice how someone has been speaking English for many years yet still have an accent.[*]Have you ever notice how someone has...
sound that you don't think such stage exist. I think it is more about the different opinion on the exact meaning of such stage. You can say it doesn't exist based on your definition
  • #34
  • Nov 30, 2012 7:26am Nov 30, 2012 7:26am
Quoting kk007
then i have to guess. If you are talking about the doc, yes i have mine that i can understand. It is not so well presented that other can pick read and understand. Not sure if you was talking about it
I apologize if in trying to help I'm confusing you. I don't have a lot of time to post and anyways you have to learn by yourself.

A system that is proven; the one that will consistently drain money out of the market, is so specific that you wouldn't believe it.

When you trade in this level of precision it is tough to cheat the system because nothing is discretionary. Discretionary trading
is the most dangerous trap on forex.

If your entries , exits, TP , SL etc are not mathematically precise you have no chance in this business.
So, you think you have rights? LOL
  • #35
  • Nov 30, 2012 7:48am Nov 30, 2012 7:48am
Quoting ForexOracle
I apologize if in trying to help I'm confusing you. I don't have a lot of time to post and anyways you have to learn by yourself.

A system that is proven; the one that will consistently drain money out of the market, is so specific that you wouldn't believe it.

When you trade in this level of precision it is tough to cheat the system because nothing is discretionary. Discretionary trading
is the most dangerous trap on forex.

If your entries , exits, TP , SL etc are not mathematically precise you have no chance in this business.
Thanks for your sharing.
This also comes to the definition of discretionary.
I am not sure what you are meaning with non-discretionary and mathematical, this sounds like the system can be written in an EA.
Some people trade in a way which is nearly mathematically optimalized by using their visual judgement...
they practise, practise and practise to obtain this... although they may not have ever worked out some calculation for optimaliztation, they have their precision.
Do you think such kind of people exist?
If you have no free time, just feel free to ignore this reply
  • #36
  • Nov 30, 2012 2:48pm Nov 30, 2012 2:48pm
Quoting ForexOracle
I apologize if in trying to help I'm confusing you. I don't have a lot of time to post and anyways you have to learn by yourself.

A system that is proven; the one that will consistently drain money out of the market, is so specific that you wouldn't believe it.

When you trade in this level of precision it is tough to cheat the system because nothing is discretionary. Discretionary trading
is the most dangerous trap on forex.

If your entries , exits, TP , SL etc are not mathematically precise you have no chance in this business.
nice argument.i think the same way. however there are a lot of claims of discretionary succes.
  • #37
  • Nov 30, 2012 8:05pm Nov 30, 2012 8:05pm
Quoting deltatrade
nice argument.i think the same way. however there are a lot of claims of discretionary succes.
Can you point me to a successful discretion-free trading system, so that I can understanding what you mean by discretion free? And, I can then show it to someone who want to write an EA.
  • #38
  • Edited 9:29pm Nov 30, 2012 8:47pm | Edited 9:29pm
Quoting ForexOracle
When you trade in this level of precision it is tough to cheat the system because nothing is discretionary. Discretionary trading
is the most dangerous trap on forex.

If your entries , exits, TP , SL etc are not mathematically precise you have no chance in this business.
I believe designing trading systems takes discretion, no? So trading systems are discretion type systems right from the start. I have spent countless hours trying to come up with trading systems and in my experience the optimizer which will give you mathematical precision is not very useful in the design process. The reason is because the market cannot be modeled with mathematical precision like most laws of nature which you can run experiments and get the same results anywhere anytime. This is the main reason mathematical precision doesn't produce the desired outcome in trading for most cases.

Markets movements are derived from the cumulative effect of human judgement. So as human's are much better than computers in reading human emotions so can a good human discretion trader beat most fixed trading systems anytime. (In saying this I assume you believe that the market movement is determine by emotional humans and not by some mathematically precise number generator.) I am not saying trading system doesn't work, there are many that works well, I am explaining why discretionary trading have a part in trading.

However I must add that to get to the level of being a competent discretion trader takes more effort and time to master than most noobs will like to believe.
Riding the order flow
  • #39
  • Dec 1, 2012 6:54am Dec 1, 2012 6:54am
Quoting Binyamin

Markets movements are derived from the cumulative effect of human judgement.

from what limited data i had that markets behave exactly like random generated charts. this makes me think a little bit more on the efficency of the markets and the randomness of the outcome. the thing is random charts can be predicted. if tommorow i will put instead of eur usd a random generated chart the successful price action traders will continue to be successful.
this is my theory. we'll see in the future if this stands out.

@kk007 you can look at the turtle system. that is an example of how to aproach matters in a systematic fashion. now the method does not work anymore because the method wasn't universal to begin with.
  • #40
  • Dec 1, 2012 8:58am Dec 1, 2012 8:58am
Quoting deltatrade
from what limited data i had that markets behave exactly like random generated charts. this makes me think a little bit more on the efficency of the markets and the randomness of the outcome. the thing is random charts can be predicted. if tommorow i will put instead of eur usd a random generated chart the successful price action traders will continue to be successful.
this is my theory. we'll see in the future if this stands out.

@kk007 you can look at the turtle system. that is an example of how to aproach matters in a systematic fashion. now...
OK... Read your post.... But sorry, nothing I can agree with you.
1. Chart is not random.
2. If it is random, there will be no successful trader.
3. I don't know whether turtle system not working anymore or not,
4. If it doesn't work anymore, I can't see why it is because of its systematic fashion.
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