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Tobin Tax Effect on Forex

  • #181
  • Oct 27, 2012 9:24pm Oct 27, 2012 9:24pm
Every forex broker has about 5-6 banks in their portfolio which provide them with quotes.

In case the tax is enacted, they will simply remove the EU banks from their portfolio and add more US/UK/Swiss/Australian etc... banks. The EU are communist idiots; the rest of the world is not that stupid.

But I don't think the EU communists will be able to enact such a tax as long as London still breathes and banks still lobby.
  • #182
  • Oct 28, 2012 2:50am Oct 28, 2012 2:50am
Quoting Parmalat
Every forex broker has about 5-6 banks in their portfolio which provide them with quotes.

In case the tax is enacted, they will simply remove the EU banks from their portfolio and add more US/UK/Swiss/Australian etc... banks. The EU are communist idiots; the rest of the world is not that stupid.

But I don't think the EU communists will be able to enact such a tax as long as London still breathes and banks still lobby.
Yes but 11 countries will start this tax and the resident of the trader (trade-actor) will be noticed.
  • #183
  • Oct 28, 2012 4:43am Oct 28, 2012 4:43am
Quoting Smike
Yes but 11 countries will start this tax and the resident of the trader (trade-actor) will be noticed.
This is a tax on institutions, not on retail traders so nobody's gonna get noticed. The only thing that matters is which institutions execute your order and a serious broker will take care of that aspect and drop all EU banks from their portfolio.

Hedge funds and other financial institutions can take care of themselves and change residence to outside the EU so they can stay in the game.

Anyway, spot forex will not be taxed. Cause if they tax spot forex it means they're gonna have to tax all currency exchange that regular people do (for example tourists or internet shoppers) and it's gonna come back on the f*cking politicians.

Only forex derivatives will be taxed.
  • #184
  • Oct 28, 2012 6:07am Oct 28, 2012 6:07am
Quoting Parmalat
This is a tax on institutions, not on retail traders so nobody's gonna get noticed. The only thing that matters is which institutions execute your order and a serious broker will take care of that aspect and drop all EU banks from their portfolio.

Hedge funds and other financial institutions can take care of themselves and change residence to outside the EU so they can stay in the game.

Anyway, spot forex will not be taxed. Cause if they tax spot forex it means they're gonna have to tax all currency exchange that regular people do (for example...
So you mean that all trades with ecn brokers will be execute from this tax?
  • #185
  • Oct 28, 2012 5:36pm Oct 28, 2012 5:36pm
[quote=Parmalat;6138537]This is a tax on institutions, not on retail traders so nobody's gonna get noticed. The only thing that matters is which institutions execute your order and a serious broker will take care of that aspect and drop all EU banks from their portfolio.

Not quite a tax "only" on insitutions, for sure if you trade stocks, as a retailer, it will hit you directly too...forex is not clear yet...

Beware of the mighty SPD party in Germany...just check their homepage and read some of the stuff theyī ve been writing there...they include what they call currency traders, and they mean retailers too...of course nobody knows the implementation details...that a big bureaucratic step between all those variables, countries , parties and lobbys...

Good luck...interesting is they are so convinved we are all just clicking away , and making millions effortlessly...and people believe that....we are all bad,guilty for the crisis together with our brokers and banks, and deserve to be punished...bad bad boys and girls...
  • #186
  • Oct 28, 2012 8:12pm Oct 28, 2012 8:12pm
Quoting Parmalat
Only forex derivatives will be taxed.
how? forex futures is cleared on globex/cme (USA).

is there any link to this that you know off?
  • #187
  • Oct 29, 2012 7:32am Oct 29, 2012 7:32am
Quoting Parmalat
This is a tax on institutions, not on retail traders so nobody's gonna get noticed. The only thing that matters is which institutions execute your order and a serious broker will take care of that aspect and drop all EU banks from their portfolio.

Hedge funds and other financial institutions can take care of themselves and change residence to outside the EU so they can stay in the game.

Anyway, spot forex will not be taxed. Cause if they tax spot forex it means they're gonna have to tax all currency exchange that regular people do (for example...

Hey Parmalat!,

unfortunately thinks here in Italy are very much different from your point of view.

If nothing will change, the tax on all transaction (even forex, of course) will be 0,05% when you open plus 0,05% when you close the position

as you can see, it'll be very hard gain after that crazy law
Don't give up
  • #188
  • Oct 29, 2012 7:38am Oct 29, 2012 7:38am
Quoting geomink
Hey Parmalat!,

unfortunately thinks here in Italy are very much different from your point of view.

If nothing will change, the tax on all transaction (even forex, of course) will be 0,05% when you open plus 0,05% when you close the position

as you can see, it'll be very hard gain after that crazy law
But what if you use broker in US, will tax still affect you?
  • #189
  • Oct 29, 2012 7:43am Oct 29, 2012 7:43am
Quoting fx111
But what if you use broker in US, will tax still affect you?
yes!!!!

if you're an italian citizen!!

they have already think everything!!

Don't give up
  • #190
  • Oct 29, 2012 8:29am Oct 29, 2012 8:29am
Quoting geomink
yes!!!!

if you're an italian citizen!!

they have already think everything!!

Could you translate the law statement which describes that?
Is it not the case that you pay only the margin to a broker the broker provides it to a bank, and the bank stock up the margin to e.g. 100 000 Units (one lot)?

So in my opinion the bank should pay the tax for the 100 000 Units. And if the bank is outside europe it will dont tax you!?!?
  • #191
  • Oct 29, 2012 9:01am Oct 29, 2012 9:01am
Quoting Smike
Could you translate the law statement which describes that?
Is it not the case that you pay only the margin to a broker the broker provides it to a bank, and the bank stock up the margin to e.g. 100 000 Units (one lot)?

So in my opinion the bank should pay the tax for the 100 000 Units. And if the bank is outside europe it will dont tax you!?!?
You don't need a law statement. It's common sense.
  • #192
  • Oct 29, 2012 9:08am Oct 29, 2012 9:08am
Quoting MCFly
You don't need a law statement. It's common sense.
Could you explain that?
  • #193
  • Oct 29, 2012 10:37am Oct 29, 2012 10:37am
Quoting Smike
Could you explain that?
First of all I'm sorry for the bad english which will follow.

In my opinion the opposite of Parmalat's statement is true. It's not a tax on institutions it's a another insturment to tax the ordinary tax payer.

Politicans are to some degree controlled by lobbies. The bank lobby is a powerful lobby. Alot of bank managers are consulting the politicans and there are many relationships between them in different fields.

The EURO crisis is driven by the structure of bank business (moral hazard) on the one hand and politican failure on the other hand. Politicans are clever and claim the banks are responsible for the whole crisis because they want to be reelect. The banks accept that because they were rescured by tax money but they don't want to pay for the crisis. The politicans are eager to punish the "initiator" (the financial business) of the EURO crisis in order to calm the situation and people. Therefore they'll install the FTS. They know and the banks know that banks can easily avoid the tax. Who can not avoid the tax? The normal people!

In germany we have to pay a tax on capital income which is called "Abgeltungssteuer". We have to pay 25% on capital returns. It's not important where we trade it's important that we are german citizen and so we have to pay the tax. Either the banks are paying the tax for us from our bank account or when we are clients of oversea/foreign broker we have to pay it on our own. Everything else is defraudation of tax. The FTS is relying on the same citizen principle. You have no chance to avoid it.
  • #194
  • Oct 29, 2012 12:14pm Oct 29, 2012 12:14pm
Quoting MCFly
First of all I'm sorry for the bad english which will follow.

In my opinion the opposite of Parmalat's statement is true. It's not a tax on institutions it's a another insturment to tax the ordinary tax payer.

Politicans are to some degree controlled by lobbies. The bank lobby is a powerful lobby. Alot of bank managers are consulting the politicans and there are many relationships between them in different fields.

The EURO crisis is driven by the structure of bank business (moral hazard) on the one hand and politican failure on the other...
I ask my broker Alpari Uk (german backoffice) and they think that we are not get taxed because the broker sits in the UK, and they will not deal with european banks then the tax comes. But they are not sure.


When I give an order i must give the bank (for example Goldman sachs) a margin after that they buy the e.g. the AUD in large volume for me. And my broker gets a commission

In this example, I never bought the AUD I have only provided the margin. And the US bank has bought the AUD e.g for $ 100 000.

And and a US bank will not be taxed!

I am not sure this is maybe completely wrong
  • #195
  • Oct 29, 2012 1:33pm Oct 29, 2012 1:33pm
Quoting geomink
yes!!!!

if you're an italian citizen!!

they have already think everything!!

Exactly!you get it if you are a citizen from any of the EU countries that apply tobin...no matter if your broker is in Timbouktu...
  • #196
  • Oct 29, 2012 1:39pm Oct 29, 2012 1:39pm
[quote=MCFly;6141729]First of all I'm sorry for the bad english which will follow.

In my opinion the opposite of Parmalat's statement is true. It's not a tax on institutions it's a another insturment to tax the ordinary tax payer.

Exactly
you couldnīt have put it more clearly...politicians are traders too...their underlying chart is called votes....and Tobin is widely popular cause they were very successfull in selling the image to the voters that the Banks alone are guilty...and politicians (who are all saints), will save us from the bad boys, banks and speculators...
  • #197
  • Nov 16, 2012 2:44am Nov 16, 2012 2:44am
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...loopholes.html

new article on how "good" tobin is working in France so far...big boys go around it...small retailers (newbies), pay the most..

Interesting that CFDīs donīt get hit...also interesting that they all expect the rest of the countries to agree on implementation for next year, in December this year ...so thatīs when we we will get some news...
France is into taxes and more taxes...they should move Paris to North Korea...and dedicate their lives to "public service"...(or ist it serving corrupted government in the name of public service..?.)
  • #198
  • Edited 4:33pm Nov 23, 2012 4:22pm | Edited 4:33pm
Quote
cuchuflito
[quote=cuchuflito;6142377]
Quoting MCFly
First of all I'm sorry for the bad english which will follow.

In my opinion the opposite of Parmalat's statement is true. It's not a tax on institutions it's a another insturment to tax the ordinary tax payer.

Exactly
you couldnīt have put it more clearly...politicians are traders too...their underlying chart is called votes....and Tobin is widely popular cause they were very successfull in selling the image to the voters that the Banks alone are guilty...and politicians (who are all saints), will save us from...
I agree with you entirely in this.

Do not worry friend, neither France or and Germany will be able to implement another stealth tax on us, this time globally, only in their wet dreams!

There are too many American Banks in London to allow this to happen to Europe or the rest of the world. Despite Germany's and America's economic wars; I know this is old news, we still do certainly have economic terrorism by banks and economic warfare by governments. If they did go ahead with it then it would make the poor people they live off too poor to sustain themselves! Think about it, the slaves would not be able to work for enough time than hours in the day to be able to eat and would simply die, then so would their wealth. They live off the poor people, always have done.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...s-economic-war

http://watchingamerica.com/News/1374...fare-on-europe

America has Quadrillions of intangible money and trading taking place in London to ever allow a FTT to take place, if they did make it work it would eventually fail, but an International stealth tax would still require some kind of global governance of body to permit this to happen; legally. And when it does and more power and economic policy is centralised further, the rich and poor divide gap will grow uncontrollably and the whole world's nations will eventually become insolvent all because of the way our artificial economic policy is engineered the whole banking and transactions. I see the strongest of all still being America for obvious reasons, when correctly analysed.

An interesting resource?:

Quote
(by Jay Kernis, CNN)

David Graeber, Money was always virtual:

"The most remarkable thing I discovered in my historical researches is that virtual money is nothing new. Actually, it's the original form of money.

Back in ancient Mesopotamia, people didn't go to the bar or market with tiny bits of silver; they put things on the tab. Merchants used expense accounts. Commerce meant trust. What we now think of as cash, in contrast -– gold and silver coinage, and with them, impersonal, cash markets –- was basically invented much later, mostly...
http://p2pfoundation.net/First_Five_..._Years_of_Debt
Quote
This is epochal. Changes on this scale only happen once every 500 or even 1000 years.
What will it mean? Well obviously it's impossible to say for sure. And to a large degree it's really up to us how it all turns out.
But one thing I have noticed is that in periods dominated by virtual money, it becomes impossible to deny that money is just a promise, that it's just a set of understandings we have with one another — and therefore, that you need some kind of watchdog institution in place to make sure things don't get completely out of hand.
In the ancient Near East, they used to simply declare periodic debt cancellations. The Medieval religious authorities tended to ban interest payments outright. Always there was some kind of overarching institution, usually bigger than any government, to protect debtors, to prevent the bulk of the population from simply being reduced to slaves (which, of course, is how most indebted Americans feel most of the time.)
Of course this time around, the first thing we did was create the IMF, a vast overarching institution designed basically to protect creditors. But (most people don't know this) that didn’t work out too well. The IMF has been effectively kicked out of Asia and Latin America for some time now, and now, most recently, from Egypt. So that model has definitely failed.
I think it's significant that growing opposition to the "debt crises" being inflicted on people in Europe, in places like Greece and Spain, is a call for "real democracy."
End Usury: End Debt and End all Poverty Permanently! Result in a truly prosperous economy whether we have intangible trading or not! There will be far greater balance without Interest, and Investors will learn to live to embrace risk! Only the slave masters will want to keep creating debt based money with added interest. This was not permitted in times of ancient slavery but is permitted in modern times of slavery and we now have more slaves than at any time in history, up to 4.5 billion are either debt based wage slaves or in poverty.

  • #199
  • Nov 23, 2012 4:23pm Nov 23, 2012 4:23pm
Quoting cuchuflito
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...loopholes.html

new article on how "good" tobin is working in France so far...big boys go around it...small retailers (newbies), pay the most..

Interesting that CFDīs donīt get hit...also interesting that they all expect the rest of the countries to agree on implementation for next year, in December this year ...so thatīs when we we will get some news...
France is into taxes and more taxes...they should move Paris to North Korea...and dedicate...
Of course, he is protecting only the banksters and this is a big surprise: NOT!
  • #200
  • Nov 24, 2012 10:32am Nov 24, 2012 10:32am
looks good tobin tax will come not until 2016!!!

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-11970563.html
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