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  • #21
  • Sep 24, 2012 4:42pm Sep 24, 2012 4:42pm
Quoting nubcake
ugh, the vouch system. ......
Agree with you, the vouch system is open to all kinds of abuse. At best, it gives a very rough idea as to who might know what they're talking about; but if I'm looking for robust ideas, I'd rather go to the Systems section and see which systems have lasted the test of time, and without too much modification along the way.

Quoting nubcake
pretty sure i mentioned it being an idea to have a separate metric specifically for coders so as to differentiate that specific aspect from everything else.
When I get immersed in coding, I need to remind myself that this is a trading forum, and that programming is nothing more than a peripheral activity. I don't mean to sound condescending, but some of the code here that's written by folk who don't develop software for a living is surprisingly workable.

Quoting nubcake
the forum is governed based on a whim and on revenue......
That's the way it must be. I don't feel yoked to the FF forum or community anywhere near as much as I used to. I understand that FF is a business enterprise, and when I read the terms and conditions, I didn't see any promises that the FF personnel would teach me how to trade profitably; it ultimately comes down to the quality of outside contributors, like you and me. I expect that, given the vast majority of traders lose, that I will read a lot of inane drivel here, and that the onus is on me to sift through the morass and only occasionally find useable gems. Hence I set my expectations accordingly.

Quoting nubcake
oh, and it's been mentioned that perhaps some of the people posting decompiled code don't know that this is what they are posting.
To anybody who's unfamiliar with decompiled code, here are a couple of things to look for (highlighted in red):

Inserted Code
/*    
[color=Red]Generated by EX4-TO-MQ4 [b]decompiler[/b][/color] V4.0.224.1 []    
Website: http://[color=Red]purebeam[/color].biz    
E-mail : [color=Red]purebeam[/color]@gmail.com 
*/ 
#property copyright "Copyright © 2009, Learn Forex Live" 
#property link      "http://www.LearnForexLive.com"
  
#property indicator_chart_window
  
int [color=Red]g_[/color]period[color=Red]_76[/color] = 7; 
double [color=Red]gd_80[/color] = 70.0; 
double [color=Red]gd_88[/color] = 50.0; 
extern color Level1 = Magenta; 
extern color Level2 = DarkGray; 
extern color Level3 = LightGray; 
int [color=Red]gi_108[/color] = 0; 
int [color=Red]g_[/color]width[color=Red]_112[/color] = 1; 
bool [color=Red]gi_[/color]unused[color=Red]_116[/color] = FALSE; 
bool [color=Red]gi_[/color]unused[color=Red]_120[/color] = FALSE;
David
  • #22
  • Sep 28, 2012 11:50am Sep 28, 2012 11:50am
Turned out to be quite an emotional thread
Strange ... always thought that traders are less emotional and more rational.
__________________________________

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts about decompiled code : "normal users" do not know what does decompiled code look like. It takes some coding knowledge to know when the code is decompiled, so, in order to recognize decompiled code and not to post it, all should know some coding and that is not what can be expected and it will not happen. So it will be around us whether we like it or not.

The fact that it was made easy to do that (decompile mql code) is yet another subject and is simply a matter of decision of some people how did they think they would benefit more (just think of the annual EAs contest participants whose decompiled EAs code suddenly gets out in the wild). It seems that all this was a matter of taking sides (traders on one side and ... on the other) and nothing else. And I mean traders now, not coders. Coding and coders work depreciated to none is just a "collateral damage"

That is all from me regarding this ...
  • #23
  • Nov 17, 2012 3:05am Nov 17, 2012 3:05am
this is still on my mind, so this isn't just some worthless bump. i am curious if anyone has come across their own code being pirated anywhere? like i previously said i've really only noticed little bits of junk code being decompiled that does nothing particularly interesting and i've not seen anything substantial (in terms of size) so far.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #24
  • Nov 17, 2012 4:59am Nov 17, 2012 4:59am
I agree with you, but there are 2 facts.
1. even if someone decompile your EA, It will be hard to understand the logic & structure of your code, They are just wasting their time to get the points in the code and there are also some points that just the author can understand.
2. As a programmer I suggest you to put some part of your code in a DLL, DLLs cannot be decompiled (DLLs can be hacked, yet not decompile),

regards,
  • #25
  • Nov 17, 2012 4:49pm Nov 17, 2012 4:49pm
I must admit that I once paid a Russian coder $250 to decompile a very complicated EA that sells for well over $2,500, and has been selling for about 5 years to my knowledge.

After getting the decompiled code I forward tested it for about 15 months running it on all timeframes from 1 min to daily, with multiple variables of risk etc, and in over 70 different accounts on different brokers and platforms it inevitably failed eventually ON EVERY SINGLE ONE.

The longest any account lasted before blowing out was just over 6 months.

As a scalper it took thousands of trades a month (making just over 200% profit a month), however the best scalper settings only lasted 5 weeks then BOOM!

Running in very safe mode it lasted no better, with the best effort being with settings that produced about 20% profit a month for 6 months, but that blew up at the 7 month mark.

I have no guilt feelings whatsoever about decompiling EA code because it inevitably DOES NOT PRODUCE results as promised.

If all you magic coders could make an EA work for an extended period, you would not be wasting your time in forums scrounging around for noobs who want you to write them an EA.
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #26
  • Nov 17, 2012 4:53pm Nov 17, 2012 4:53pm
Another point of course is that most EA's on the market sell for less than $250, and as such are definately not worth wasting time or money in decompiling. It's debatable whether its worth decompiling a $500 EA in my opinion.
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #27
  • Nov 17, 2012 4:58pm Nov 17, 2012 4:58pm
Ummmm... just realized that good 'ol nubcake was upset at people POSTING decompiled code, not decompiling code.

Hey man, I have never posted code of any sort... period. Never seen any worth posting.

For the record.
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #28
  • Nov 17, 2012 5:03pm Nov 17, 2012 5:03pm
Amzing, simply amazing how some people justify their acts. Right out of Bernie Madoff guide to cheating and feeling righteous.a
  • #29
  • Nov 17, 2012 5:16pm Nov 17, 2012 5:16pm
Quoting CodeMeister
Amzing, simply amazing how some people justify their acts. Right out of Bernie Madoff guide to cheating and feeling righteous.a
Don't be such a pompous arse Codemeister.

I feel NO guilt at decompiling an EA, as I've yet to see one that had any more value than a roll of toilet paper, let alone $2,500.

To advertize and sell an EA (or any trading method for that matter) that does not live up to the claims advertized, is outright theft. The authorities do nothing to bring these thieves to justice because its only a million or so dollars and not worth pursuing.

If you see my actions as similar to Madhoff's then so be it...
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #30
  • Nov 17, 2012 6:40pm Nov 17, 2012 6:40pm
Quoting pt49
Don't be such a pompous arse Codemeister.

I feel NO guilt at decompiling an EA, as I've yet to see one that had any more value than a roll of toilet paper, let alone $2,500.

To advertize and sell an EA (or any trading method for that matter) that does not live up to the claims advertized, is outright theft. The authorities do nothing to bring these thieves to justice because its only a million or so dollars and not worth pursuing.

If you see my actions as similar to Madhoff's then so be it...
I agree that using false claims to advertise and sell a product is fraudulent. However, one problem with EAs is that the vendor can TRUTHFULLY show a selected period of time over which the EA did deliver a profit, along with the (mandatory) disclaimer that "past performance is no guarantee of future results". Hence I think it could be reasonably argued that EAs fall into a gray area; a big part of the problem is that buyers are blinded by their own greed, and consequently don't take the disclaimer seriously. Anybody who buys a vended EA, and expects it to remain consistently profitable over their trading lifetime, is extremely gullible. Trading systems need to be able to adapt to changing market conditions, and no vended EA will have the intelligence to do that. Hence you're buying an EA to save you the time and effort of trading manually, not because you believe that it will be able to outperform you as a trader, over the long haul.

However, what is definitely not a gray area, is that reverse engineering copyrighted material is theft. Hence I agree with CodeMeister. Programmers deserve to be paid for their time, effort and skill, just like any other professional.
  • #31
  • Nov 17, 2012 6:46pm Nov 17, 2012 6:46pm
I can go onto eBay right now and can find at least 2 examples of decompiled indicators for sale that I have coded on another forum ( and we are talking hours and hours of my time and 3000 plus lines of code ) where one of the sellers claims that they have copyright, I have even seen cases where the original password was still being used and my name displayed on the chart in the screenshot as the author. I have also had many cases of my indicators being decompiled on Asian forums then the trader coming back to me to try and get either an updated version or for me to add extra features. Its epidemic and as long as people can justify it to them selves nothing will ever change, the life of anything perceived as good once on the web is about 2 to 3 months max before it is decompiled, you only have to go to certain Asian forums and they openly advertise decompiling or educating as they put it. The bottom line is theft is theft no matter how you sugar coat it.
Trade what you see not what you hope
  • #32
  • Nov 17, 2012 7:05pm Nov 17, 2012 7:05pm
If it only worked this way.

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1348471951
Hej.
  • #33
  • Nov 17, 2012 7:18pm Nov 17, 2012 7:18pm
Quoting hanover
Programmers deserve to be paid for their time, effort and skill, just like any other professional.
I don't dispute that programmers (code writers) deserve to be paid for their efforts, however 99% of the commercial EA's you can buy in the marketplace are not sold by their programmers (coders), they are sold by marketers who have ALREADY paid their programmers to write the code.

I may be getting a bit technical on this point, however, may I suggest that the programmers ALREADY GOT PAID for his efforts?
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #34
  • Nov 17, 2012 7:22pm Nov 17, 2012 7:22pm
I agree on this, the vouch rules clearly state that the vouching system is for "experienced and wise traders"... and as such if a coder is vouched for his "coding" then its a crap vouch, and means nothing to a noob trader who may be reading his posts.
Quoting Stitch961
If it only worked this way.

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1348471951
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #35
  • Edited Nov 18, 2012 4:39am Nov 17, 2012 9:26pm | Edited Nov 18, 2012 4:39am
Quoting Stitch961
If it only worked this way.
@Stitch961: Agree with you 100%.

In fact your attachment looks very similar to a post of mine in response to another FF member, who claimed unashamedly that he was vouching for members based on their programming skill, rather than trading wisdom and experience.

IMO the old 1KT vouching system was better than the wisdom vouching. Of course it was likewise open to abuse, but at least a member had to offer some assurance that he'd completed 1,000 live trades, in order to get vouches. "Wisdom" is somewhat more open to opinion.

But um, ........ I'm not sure how vouching has anything to do with copyright violation, i.e. the topic of this thread.

[EDIT] I thought the attachment looked familiar. Just noticed now that it was from a post of mine earlier in this same thread!!

Quoting cja
Its epidemic and as long as people can justify it to them selves nothing will ever change, the life of anything perceived as good once on the web is about 2 to 3 months max before it is decompiled, you only have to go to certain Asian forums and they openly advertise decompiling or educating as they put it. The bottom line is theft is theft no matter how you sugar coat it.
@cja: I feel for you. There are not too many feelings more sickening than having some thief profit from your hard work.

Quoting pt49
I may be getting a bit technical on this point, however, may I suggest that the programmers ALREADY GOT PAID for his efforts?
@pt49: I see your point, and FWIW, I agree.
  • #36
  • Nov 17, 2012 10:24pm Nov 17, 2012 10:24pm
Quoting cja
[font=Verdana]I can go onto eBay right now and can find at least 2 examples of decompiled indicators for sale that I have coded on another forum ( and we are talking hours and hours of my time and 3000 plus lines of code ) where one of the sellers claims that they have copyright, I have even seen cases where the original password was still being used and my name displayed on the chart in the screenshot as the author. I have also had many cases of my indicators being decompiled on Asian forums then the trader coming back to me to try and get either...
that is pretty shitty. i was a bit on the fence about whether or not trying to protect code was worth the hassle or not since i've never seen anything more than a handful of lines being decompiled. but hearing how your larger project/s are also getting the treatment puts it in perspective. i figured larger projects would simply be too obscure for people to figure-out. i guess that is not the case :S
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #37
  • Nov 18, 2012 2:21am Nov 18, 2012 2:21am
I write my own code for MT4 been doing for years and I don't share.

99.9999 % that is written is USELESS
therefore the source code should be available, you would have to be a fool to pay money for useless junk.
I think I will put something on ebay
I will call it the Super-Galactic-Mayan-Calendar-no-loss-system.
only $29.95
  • #38
  • Nov 18, 2012 3:37am Nov 18, 2012 3:37am
Quoting Mingary
I will call it the Super-Galactic-Mayan-Calendar-no-loss-system.
only $29.95
Try $2.95 and you might make a sale.
In the days of old when sailors were bold, and seldom if ever contented.
  • #39
  • Nov 18, 2012 11:15am Nov 18, 2012 11:15am
Quoting hanover
In fact your attachment looks very similar to a post of mine in response to another FF member, who claimed unashamedly that he was vouching for members based on their programming skill, rather than trading wisdom and experience.
.
//---

hey nubcake...... please allow this one last intrusion from me..... i appologize to everyone for my broken writing style...... it can be confusing....... thanks......h

//--
//--

hey hanover...... my now obvious error was in my third post of this thread where i was in trying to explain my original and second post in this thread.....

no where have i stated unashamedly vouching for members based on their programming skill......



over 99% my time is spent in the code/programing section so it should stand to reason my vouched for list will be heavy in that department....

hence my statement, my vouched for list contains some of the best coders.... it's a simple statement......

now in my mind i must make an over all disclamier, hence the follow up statement, whether they can trade or not, i have no clue..... to be perfectly honest i have no proof...... i can only trust that they can ......... and i, for one, know the value my judgement.......


as examples, i vouched for both cja and codemeister..... but have they shown me a single trade....... no...... and i would never dream of asking to see anything.......

in my mind they are among a group of traders believed by me to be very experienced and wise....... it's purely a judgement call...... nothing more......


and yes, there are plenty of seemingly good programers that are not on my list...... hanover is one.......

//----

i take vouching dead serious...... i take trading dead serious...... it's what i do all day...... i post my live forex trades...... forex accounts, along with account numbers for all to see....... actually forex is less than 1% of my daily trading activity.......

that's me hanover..... you are you......

i truely wish everyone the best in life and trading.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #40
  • Nov 18, 2012 2:40pm Nov 18, 2012 2:40pm
Quoting hayseed
hey hanover...... my now obvious error was in my third post of this thread where i was in trying to explain my original and second post in this thread.....
no where have i stated unashamedly vouching for members based on their programming skill......
Point taken. It seems that I should read all of the prior posts in a thread, before replying to one in isolation. Often I just post 'randomly', if I see something in a post that grabs my attention.

Anyway, I apologize; no offense intended.
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