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less pips and most lot

  • #1
  • First Post: May 25, 2006 5:02am May 25, 2006 5:02am
Hello
I'm thinking about a strategy. I wanna get just 10 pips per day with maximum lot (JUST 10 PIPS). Can someone help me to get 10 pips everyday?
what is your idea about getting 10 pips? Which indicator do you choose? Which way?
  • #2
  • May 25, 2006 5:15am May 25, 2006 5:15am
I have a feeling, most everyone here is gonna tell you if you want only 10 pips a day, you are gonna lose 25-30 or more trying. I used to try to only get 10 pips or so and it is very hard to do.
JOHN 3:16
  • #3
  • May 25, 2006 5:21am May 25, 2006 5:21am
It means that you think it is not a good strategy?

Quoting renasdad
I have a feeling, most everyone here is gonna tell you if you want only 10 pips a day, you are gonna lose 25-30 or more trying. I used to try to only get 10 pips or so and it is very hard to do.
  • #4
  • May 25, 2006 5:23am May 25, 2006 5:23am
Quoting hamidamini333
Hello
I'm thinking about a strategy. I wanna get just 10 pips per day with maximum lot (JUST 10 PIPS). Can someone help me to get 10 pips everyday?
what is your idea about getting 10 pips? Which indicator do you choose? Which way?
so you're saying that you wanna make 10 pips a day with about...say 10 standard lots? Thats about $1000 a day... There are many ways to accomplish that. Fundamental data can easily get you there. But I'd recommend using a much more planned strategy.
There isn't any single indicator that can help you make a successful trade. You'll have to find a system that works well for you, and you'll have to time your trades well. There are many systems, that you can find online. Also, read more about money management. Trust me....you don't wanna go all in, all the time. Try going all in with a demo account, and see what happens. Good Luck
  • #5
  • May 25, 2006 5:27am May 25, 2006 5:27am
Quoting hamidamini333
Hello
I'm thinking about a strategy. I wanna get just 10 pips per day with maximum lot (JUST 10 PIPS). Can someone help me to get 10 pips everyday?
what is your idea about getting 10 pips? Which indicator do you choose? Which way?

Well, so you're acctually just askin' for a descent strategy to get rich, maybe
not quick, but the safe way, right?

;-)
  • #6
  • May 25, 2006 5:29am May 25, 2006 5:29am
I have traded with a demo account for 8 months. It was good and useful for me.
And now I have a real account. But I have lost some money. This is a new suggestion for myself. Hoe do you think?
Quoting blueshift
so you're saying that you wanna make 10 pips a day with about...say 10 standard lots? Thats about $1000 a day... There are many ways to accomplish that. Fundamental data can easily get you there. But I'd recommend using a much more planned strategy.
There isn't any single indicator that can help you make a successful trade. You'll have to find a system that works well for you, and you'll have to time your trades well. There are many systems, that you can find online. Also, read more about money management. Trust me....you don't wanna go all in, all the time. Try going all in with a demo account, and see what happens. Good Luck
  • #7
  • May 25, 2006 5:58am May 25, 2006 5:58am
Go see Rob Booker www.robbooker.com this is what he trains you to do.
  • #8
  • May 25, 2006 6:10am May 25, 2006 6:10am
Quoting trader1969
Go see Rob Booker www.robbooker.com this is what he trains you to do.
Yes, I know Rob and I have studied some of his books. We contact with another via email. Actually this strategy is Rob's. What is your idea about Rob?
  • #9
  • May 25, 2006 6:23am May 25, 2006 6:23am
Quoting hamidamini333
Hello
I'm thinking about a strategy. I wanna get just 10 pips per day with maximum lot (JUST 10 PIPS). Can someone help me to get 10 pips everyday?
what is your idea about getting 10 pips? Which indicator do you choose? Which way?

I think this is an absolutely INSANE strategy!

10 pips a day can be achieved by a blind and diabetic monkey suffering from Tourettes.

I would seriously recommend using a standardized strategy of sound money management and market analysis.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #10
  • May 25, 2006 6:51am May 25, 2006 6:51am
Quoting hamidamini333
I have traded with a demo account for 8 months. It was good and useful for me.
And now I have a real account. But I have lost some money. This is a new suggestion for myself. Hoe do you think?
There is a lot of difference between demo and real accounts. "I want to make 10 pips per day" is not a strategy. You look for good opportunities to make profitable trades. Thats it!!!! Your ability to understand the market will determine how much you make. It should never be the other way around. Also, try not to predict the market. Just react to the movement.
  • #11
  • May 25, 2006 7:19am May 25, 2006 7:19am
Quoting hamidamini333
It means that you think it is not a good strategy?
Here's the problem...

You're limiting yourself on a very concious level. You're saying "only 10 pips"...fine, so you start trading, and you to yourself..."sure I can make 10 pips. shouldn't be too hard". So you make 2 or 3 successful trades, but you CUT YOURSELF OFF at 10 pips, saying..."I made my goal...I'm out of here". Then you make a small unsuccessful trade and lose, say 5 pips. You think to yourself..."hey, that's not too bad, I just need to make 15 pips to get my 10 pip average, right?...that's not being greedy". So, let's say you make your 15 pips...barely that day. You think to yourself...see, that wasn't so bad. Then the next day something goes horribly wrong, and you lose 20 pips (news or something). Now, you've got an issue...your most successful trade was 15 pips, and you remember how difficult it was to make it. So, in your head, trying to make 30 pips it is going to be pyschologically twice as hard. So you say, 30 pips...I suppose I can do that in a few trades. So you start trying to chip away. You make 2 trades making 5 pips a trade. Thinking to yourself...ok, not too bad. Then you make a third trade and you lose 13 pips. And now you're 33 pips from your goal and you're thinking...my god, I'm going backwards...so you say, OK...I'll just TRIPLE my position and go for something small. So you make triple position and trade...bam 10 pip loss...so now you're 63 pips from your goal...and your mind is going nuts...You've basically turned your account with profit into a losing account...in 1 day!! and mind you, there wasn't anything in these trades that was completely outrageous. Your biggest pip-loss was 20 pips on a news trade.

See, the problem is that by limiting yourself to a psychological goal on your profits, you're limiting your profits...so in your head, you're going to jump out of a trade the first chance you get. Unfortunately, that may be WAY too early. Now, does this mean that if you shoot for the moon, you'll make more money? Actually...yes...it does, because by NOT limiting your profits, you allow yourself to have large enough winners to counter act your negative trades, which WILL inevitably come to you. No system...and I mean no system...wins 100% of the time over the long-run...can you get a high win rate? believe me, as much as we don't want to tell ourselves this, a little luck always accompanies a system. Grant it, our systems can be sound and make profit, but everyone will tell you, there is a bit of luck involved when it comes to wins...not solely luck, you can't make a good system throwing darts...but factors have to play out in ways that are impossible to predict with 100% accuracy...I'm not saying you have to be lucky all the time to be a good trader...you just need to have a good money management program in place in order to counter balance your trades where you got "unlucky".

I'd be interested to see how much better you did if you made your goal:

"I want to follow my system signals to the tee and lose no more than 10 pips a day...and have fun doing it"

I'm not sure this would be the exact way to word it, but you're setting a psychological limit on your losses instead...which I think would be better.
  • #12
  • May 25, 2006 7:40am May 25, 2006 7:40am
MrMikal: wise words imho. (Felt like reading a horror book. Could feel the hairs in the back of my neck standing up when you described the making losses/trying to catch up So realistic it is creepy. felt like a bad memory from the past )

I just wanted to add something to your statement on luck. Yesterday my girlfriend told me "It sounds so simple. It feels like you are lucky and something will go wrong eventually. What if you just had luck on your side".

I agreed. it is luck. It is always a calculated guess/gamble where you try to pick your position with stops so that the biggest percentage of chance is on your side. Also you pick your fights. You wait for them, you don't HAVE to trade every day! And THEN you try to make the gains/targets several times the potential loss, so that even when you are "unlucky" 6 times out of 10, the 4 winners are more money than the 6 losses.

The trick with the 10 pips a day is that it sounds easy. Easier than a statement like 200 pips a month. However, lying in an ambush waiting for a perfect setup with short stops based on trendlines and TA will make the 200 pips in only a handfull trades much easier than a daily 10 pips move. No offence, but the 10 pip a day is as MrMikal and others described a recipy for disaster imho. And you can trust me for knowing, after having lost around 15K euro on trading. Only the last weeks have I seen a constant steady rise, just by applying the logic and strategies of FF going for rifleshots on priceaction etc, and by letting the winners run and the losers stop.
  • #13
  • May 25, 2006 7:51am May 25, 2006 7:51am
That's your "strategy." It probably good. But what about your "tactic" to get 10 pips? See, all you talk about is just GETTING 10 pips everyday. Well, I can think of two ways to get it:

1) You're the luckiest gambler in the world that no matter which position you are at the open, by the time you close your trade you win 10 pips. Everyday.

2) You're the dumbest die-hard in the world that you trade probably tens or hundreds of times a day until the overall count gives you 10 pips for the day.

For the first way, only you know the answer.

For the second way, taking drawdowns into the picture, well, you must have money....i don't know....probably way over Croessus ever had. But if you do, why in the world you even think about forex trading?

Then again, you said this idea you got from Rob Booker. I don't know Rob Booker but, judging from the other's answers in this forum, he is quiet a guy. So, I guess he already implement this strategy and gain something out of it. If he does, you should study more under his guidance rather than trying to get others opinion about it.
  • #14
  • May 25, 2006 8:20am May 25, 2006 8:20am
I Agree,
I think is also emotionally impossible to keep open a position with many lots if it doesn't turn immeditaly to the +10 pips target.
This is my opinion. Big amounts in one trade make you very stressed and the market movement you can allow to your trade before reaching your goal is too small..this will force you to close trades too soon, also if they might be profitable.
  • #15
  • May 25, 2006 8:30am May 25, 2006 8:30am
I have tryed also something like this system, and in symulation was working ...but in real it turned out it was a very stressful, and for this reason, not a good system to keep you think rationally. I closed many trades too early because my money were running away so quickly that I couln't stand..I was in big panic for a wrong movement of only 10 pisp.. Result was that i closed operations with loss, and then the market turned back in what would have been a profitable trade. I think is better to play little amounts per trade and let yourself to keep a position open with a bit less stress
  • #16
  • May 25, 2006 8:31am May 25, 2006 8:31am
Why go for 10pips a day, when you can get much, much more with patience and discipline. Maybe not every day, but it can be achieved with less stress and more time to enjoy your life if you work off of larger time frame. Check out james16 chart thread or MuddBuddha's 10.25.50 strategy. Not saying you can't get 10pips a day, but why waste your time
my2c


Quoting hamidamini333
It means that you think it is not a good strategy?
  • #17
  • May 25, 2006 10:31am May 25, 2006 10:31am
I agree with everyone here that trying to average 10 pips a day is a stupid plan. If you just want to half ass it and take any old random trade, then it isn’t going to work. But there is nothing wrong with looking for a single 10 pip trading opportunity per day. There are many of them, and with patience and discipline in seeking out the best one in a 24 hour period you can do very well.



Can you sit at your terminal for hours or days at a time waiting patiently? That’s up to you to determine. Honestly not many people can, but not many will ever make money doing this anyway. If your one of those few this strategy will be just as good as any other.



With regard to money management, the advice given is good; provided you do things the way everyone else does. When your taking non-stop garbage trades, you should absolutely keep your risk to a minimum because you’re probably going to lose far more often then you win. If you want to pursue a best 10 pip strategy then bet the house. Why? Because when you stand to lose a huge chunk of your money on every trade, it will enforce a discipline that money management will never give you; the discipline to take only the absolute best trades. If you can’t maintain THAT discipline, the rest of it doesn’t matter.



Should you go out and start trading max leverage today? Not unless you have some masochistic tendencies. You would be deluding yourself if you think you are capable of deciding what the best trades are at this point. You should stick to the 1% deal until you have hit 30 -50 winning trades in a row. Those 30-50 trades should all be with real money, because as you have discovered, demo-gaming is not trading. There will come a point when you KNOW you know what you’re doing, and then it’s ok to jack up your trade size.



I’m going to catch a lot of flack for this, and all I can say is that you’re either a trader or your not. When you start out, you should keep risk to a minimum until you learn. When you have 6 or 7 figures to manage, you should protect it. But in the middle you either need to get big or go home. Risking 1% of $1k is very different from risking 1% of $1mil, and if you can’t learn how to trade size you should build a nice diversified portfolio, because you’re not a trader.
  • #18
  • May 25, 2006 12:05pm May 25, 2006 12:05pm
Ok, Thanx for all guidances. But when I traded with demo account, at first I trade with mini lot (my balance = 5000). I was losing and getting virtual money by diffrent positions. Suddenly I decide to work by the strategy (high levereges).
I got 3000$ for about two months, and I was really happy and my dreams have been made,... .
But now that I have a real account the stress doesn't let me to trade like when I had demo account. Simply I do't know what should do I do, I really need help and guidances.
  • #19
  • May 25, 2006 12:48pm May 25, 2006 12:48pm
Quoting hamidamini333
Ok, Thanx for all guidances. But when I traded with demo account, at first I trade with mini lot (my balance = 5000). I was losing and getting virtual money by diffrent positions. Suddenly I decide to work by the strategy (high levereges).
I got 3000$ for about two months, and I was really happy and my dreams have been made,... .
But now that I have a real account the stress doesn't let me to trade like when I had demo account. Simply I do't know what should do I do, I really need help and guidances.
The tools for success are tucked away in the various messages in this post.

You're still in a phase where you believe that the amount of money you make is predicated on the TYPE of trades you make rather than what really makes money in a business like this...probability, law of averages and risk management.

This is not saying that you should ignore the search for a system. Your system IS important, but in reality, you only need to find a system you can trade profitably using proper risk management techniques. As a wise trader once pointed out, you can make money with almost any system...the issues come down to risk...if you don't control the leaks, you're going to sink your ship.

You can leverage as much as you want, but if you don't control the amount of risk you take with each trade, you're going to lose a lot more than you're going to win.

There was a really wild article a while back that stated the probabilities of reaching a certain pip continuation based on the rise/fall of a particular candle. So, they back tested this puppy (for 2004 data, I believe) and using a 20 pip stop loss, they calculated what percentage of the time for a given currency when a particular period candle reached about a particular pip level, how often did it go 10 more pips, 20 more pips, 30 more pips, etc. without touching the initial stop.

If you really want an experiment...simply base your system on these types of probabilities. Get some intraday forex data from various pairs and determine, with a 20 pip stop loss and a 20 pip profit target, how often does it reach your goal before it hits the stop. guassian theory would have you believe this would be about 50% of the time, but it's actually less than that due to the spread...with that said, probabilities of trend continuation after various period gains do increase the probability to beyond 60/40 (which should be enough to reach profitability). This in conjunction with compounding growth should get you to where you want to go...mind you, I didn't say anything about a particular daily profit target.

The point being is that in order to succeed with a system, you need to find out if it suits your trading style. Teaching you WHAT to do is like teaching you how to see the color "green" the way I see that same color...I would venture to say everyone has a general idea of what the color "green" looks like, but it's possible that the color green to me looks more blue to others (because of variations in the way our brain processes color)...hues and saturation could be starkly different...the point being, no one can truly teach you what they know about something that should be relatively internalized because variations in how we see things will vary from person to person.

With that said, we can generally point you in the right direction, but we don't have the ability to make you LEARN how to do it...you just have to pick it up - or don't...
  • #20
  • May 25, 2006 1:16pm May 25, 2006 1:16pm
Quoting hamidamini333
Ok, Thanx for all guidances. But when I traded with demo account, at first I trade with mini lot (my balance = 5000). I was losing and getting virtual money by diffrent positions. Suddenly I decide to work by the strategy (high levereges).
I got 3000$ for about two months, and I was really happy and my dreams have been made,... .
But now that I have a real account the stress doesn't let me to trade like when I had demo account. Simply I do't know what should do I do, I really need help and guidances.
Buddy,

I feel like I'm writing this to myself. In the demo, it's MUCH different! A real account hurts when you lose big. I have been exactly where you are now. At one point, I was afraid to trade because everytime I did my homework and placed my trade in demo just to practice, I would win. Whenever I placed my trade in a real account, I would lose. I was over-leveraging my account like you. It made me feel sick when I loss.

Just because you loss your money quickly, take your time in getting it back. Trade smaller lot sizes PLEASE!!! You will thank yourself later because you will not be correct everytime!! Along the way, you will not make the same mistakes, but you will have losses. Do not trade your demo account because you will begin to use it as a crutch and not take your good trades that you were taking before.

I had to go back to Fibonacci and started reading about Harmonic Patterns and the Pesavento Numbers. They really started helping me. Now, I don't trade against the trend nearly as much as I did before. Now, I no longer try and trade 6 different currencies either!!! I may look at other currencies to see what they're doing, but I only trade the EUR/USD. I know it doesn't move as much as the GBP/USD, but the GBP is too erratic for me. I am learning to get my confidence back with the Euro. I feel much more comfortable now waiting for the .707 and .786 retracements and using 1.128 retracement as a stop loss and I take profit at 1.272 & 1.618 extension. When I first started trading, everyone always spoke about the .382, .500, and .618 retracements. I ignore them all now. Sometimes, I will take the 30 or 40 pips if I look at it long enough. Use this tool created by a very good Russian programmer. I found it under "Harmonic Trading" on forex-tsd.com. Look at the forum pages in the 80's. Get the latest ZUP indicator and the other "Harmonic Patterns" indicator too. I hope it works for you.
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