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Dukascopy vs FXOpen ECN

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 2, 2012 6:53am Oct 2, 2012 6:53am
Hi.
I have an (pretty small) account with Dukascopy for the moment and everything seems fine, but when i compare spread between dukas and fxopen ecn it seems that the spread is much tighter at fxopen. So the question is - is it worth changing the broker? I know that it is kinda strange to ask about their execution/slippage since it is an ECN, but still - are there any "cons" with going with fxopen ecn compared to dukascopy?
/Regards.
  • #2
  • Oct 2, 2012 7:26am Oct 2, 2012 7:26am
stay away from Fxopen

see this case :

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-...my-proofs.html

1. You will learn they will refuse to assume any responsibility for any technical problem.

2. tighter spread maybe by adding some LP but you will learn they are not a true ECN (post#22 & 23)
  • #3
  • Oct 2, 2012 5:54pm Oct 2, 2012 5:54pm
Quoting staw
Hi.
I have an (pretty small) account with Dukascopy for the moment and everything seems fine, but when i compare spread between dukas and fxopen ecn it seems that the spread is much tighter at fxopen. So the question is - is it worth changing the broker? I know that it is kinda strange to ask about their execution/slippage since it is an ECN, but still - are there any "cons" with going with fxopen ecn compared to dukascopy?
/Regards.
You would be good with FXOpen AU which is a 100% ECN, Australian broker regulated by ASIC which means they can't play games with you even if they wanted to without getting shut down. You will also find that FXOpen AU's ECN is a true ECN where all traders are full participants in the market, both offering and taking prices instead of just trading off a feed.

Slippage can go both ways for and against. This is the nature of the market.

This is from my real account.
http://img15.imagefra.me/i5a2/jafar0..._3f7_u9brf.png

On one order I was slipped in my favour 0.3 pips for the target. However on a stop loss I was slipped 0.1 pips worse. Still 0.2 pips up there

The spread is insane too. I was scalping eur/usd last night getting 0-0.2 pip spreads.
  • #4
  • Edited 8:40am Oct 3, 2012 2:54am | Edited 8:40am
Quoting jafar00
You would be good with FXOpen AU which is a 100% ECN, Australian broker regulated by ASIC which means they can't play games with you even if they wanted to without getting shut down. You will also find that FXOpen AU's ECN is a true ECN where all traders are full participants in the market, both offering and taking prices instead of just trading off a feed.

Slippage can go both ways for and against. This is the nature of the market.

This is from my real account.
http://img15.imagefra.me/i5a2/jafar0..._3f7_u9brf.png

On one...
Best be wary:

FXOpen Investigated By CFTC @ Forex Factory

Can't take profits out of FX Open @ Forex Factory

Issues with FX Open

Oh and my personal favourite, they are represented by a chap called (no prizes for guessing) – Jafar Calley. Coincidence?

Never wise to blow your own trumpet.
  • #5
  • Oct 3, 2012 4:47pm Oct 3, 2012 4:47pm
Quoting High.Five
Best be wary:

FXOpen Investigated By CFTC @ Forex Factory

Can't take profits out of FX Open @ Forex Factory

Issues with FX Open

Oh and my personal favourite, they are represented by a chap called (no prizes for guessing) – Jafar Calley. Coincidence?

Never...
The big difference here is regulation, especially Australian regulation. ASIC would shut the company down pretty fast if any funny business went on. FXOpen AU is a different company to what you listed above so you know.
  • #6
  • Oct 4, 2012 12:13pm Oct 4, 2012 12:13pm
Please stay with Dukascopy.
It is a lot better Broker by far and your deposit is probably the safest in between Brokers. They are a Bank. And if you trade with Dukascopy EU, they are 100% owned by the Bank.

Remember one thing,.. "quoted" prices are very much irrelevant when comparing spreads between brokers.

What I mean is that you are comparing price feed only from 2 brokers, it is impossible to know in which one would give you the best price when you place an order.

You would need to have real accounts in both Brokers, and place 100% synchronized trades in both of them , and many trades , to really know which one gave you the best price.

J.
  • #7
  • Oct 4, 2012 11:13pm Oct 4, 2012 11:13pm
Quoting jeuro
Please stay with Dukascopy.
It is a lot better Broker by far and your deposit is probably the safest in between Brokers. They are a Bank. And if you trade with Dukascopy EU, they are 100% owned by the Bank.

Remember one thing,.. "quoted" prices are very much irrelevant when comparing spreads between brokers.

What I mean is that you are comparing price feed only from 2 brokers, it is impossible to know in which one would give you the best price when you place an order.

You would need to have real accounts in both Brokers, and place 100%...
When you trade on an ECN, you are not just trading a price feed. In the case of FXOpen anyway, you are a true participant of the market both taking and offering prices. Your order appears in the order book for others to see. FXOpen's ECN technology is popular with algorithm traders because it is clean and transparent. What you see is what you get. The market is laid out in front of you.

As for safety of funds, no other regulator that I know of is as strict as ASIC. They conduct regular checks and audits on companies that they regulate. Australia has some of the strictest laws for businesses in the world.
  • #8
  • Oct 5, 2012 2:42am Oct 5, 2012 2:42am
Quoting High.Five
Best be wary:

FXOpen Investigated By CFTC @ Forex Factory

Can't take profits out of FX Open @ Forex Factory

Issues with FX Open

Oh and my personal favourite, they are represented by a chap called (no prizes for guessing) – Jafar Calley. Coincidence?

Never...

Yeah, this Jafar dude is cheerleading the FXopenSCAM on the whole internet, I know him from Talkgold..

STAY AWAY from FXopenSCAM, I got screwed for $3400 , so called technical problems when I tried to close a losing position
  • #9
  • Oct 5, 2012 4:14am Oct 5, 2012 4:14am
Quoting Forexeurusd
Yeah, this Jafar dude is cheerleading the FXopenSCAM on the whole internet, I know him from Talkgold..

STAY AWAY from FXopenSCAM, I got screwed for $3400 , so called technical problems when I tried to close a losing position
FXOpen AU is regulated by ASIC. An account with us means you are totally protected. Scamming is not possible in Australia.
  • #10
  • Oct 5, 2012 5:44am Oct 5, 2012 5:44am
Quoting FXOjafar
When you trade on an ECN, you are not just trading a price feed. In the case of FXOpen anyway, you are a true participant of the market both taking and offering prices. Your order appears in the order book for others to see. FXOpen's ECN technology is popular with algorithm traders because it is clean and transparent. What you see is what you get. The market is laid out in front of you.

As for safety of funds, no other regulator that I know of is as strict as ASIC. They conduct regular checks and audits on companies that they regulate. Australia...

Comparing regulations that apply to "forex" brokers between Switzerland and Australia is like comparing an an elephant with an ant. In Switzerland you can offer forex trading only with a BANK licence with their corresponding Minimum paid capital require for a BANK. In Australia anybody with a few dollar can be a forex Broker.

In the other hand, strict regulations means nothing. Regulator are always late to intervene is case of irregularities. If the money is gone, nothing a trader can do.

As far as I know, Australia forex brokers are not covered by Compensation Funds, like forex traders are trading with brokers in Switzerland, England and the European union... are they?.

If the Broker goes BK, there is no recourse to recover any money.

Trading with Dukascopy, a trader is guaranteed up to 100 000 CHF by the Switzerland Compensation Fund.

J.
  • #11
  • Oct 5, 2012 12:12pm Oct 5, 2012 12:12pm
Quoting FXOjafar
FXOpen AU is regulated by ASIC. An account with us means you are totally protected. Scamming is not possible in Australia.

Regulation does not mean you are protected from the games brokers play with you, like they did with me
  • #12
  • Oct 6, 2012 2:47am Oct 6, 2012 2:47am
so what's the take on this?? is FXopen a scam shop?
  • #13
  • Oct 6, 2012 6:53am Oct 6, 2012 6:53am
Quoting dotless
so what's the take on this?? is FXopen a scam shop?
Not necessarily, but there are a few things that do not sound quite well.

The point is that Changing from Dukascopy to FX open is like going backward. Specially if the only purpose is for "better spread" ... which I am sure it is only theoretically because comparing a demo with a real account. Indirectly I found out that fxopen may not have same price feed to their demo and the real accounts. ( see this unrelated thread.. there an FxOpen client claim that Demo and real can have as much as 5 pips difference http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=387617 )

Dukascopy Bank is one of the best choice were to trade if our capital grows. At a certain amount of investment, deposit safety should be the most important part of our trading.

J.
  • #14
  • Edited Oct 8, 2012 12:09am Oct 7, 2012 11:46pm | Edited Oct 8, 2012 12:09am
Quoting jeuro
Not necessarily, but there are a few things that do not sound quite well.

The point is that Changing from Dukascopy to FX open is like going backward. Specially if the only purpose is for "better spread" ... which I am sure it is only theoretically because comparing a demo with a real account. Indirectly I found out that fxopen may not have same price feed to their demo and the real accounts. ( see this unrelated thread.. there an FxOpen client claim that Demo and real can have as much as 5 pips difference http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=387617...
Of course demo and live have different prices. Demo has unlimited, simulated liquidity, whereas a live account has real liquidity conditions. Virtual Liquidity plus other demo traders in the book. Dukascopy and FXOpen are the same in that regard.

As for for safety of funds in Australia, you can find plenty of legislation to protect you and you know that FXOpen complies with ASIC guidelines RG212 which deals with how client funds are held and used and what is done with said monies should the broker go bust. ie. the client gets his money before any lawyers or liquidators can touch it. Not to mention we at FXOpen AU have the full support of our friends at FXOpen NZ which is a massive company in it's own right.
  • #15
  • Oct 8, 2012 2:42am Oct 8, 2012 2:42am
Quoting duxis
stay away from Fxopen

see this case :

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-...my-proofs.html

1. You will learn they will refuse to assume any responsibility for any technical problem.

2. tighter spread maybe by adding some LP but you will learn they are not a true ECN (post#22 & 23)
I would not strongly believe this resourse. 40% are artificial actually
very nice, good price..!
  • #16
  • Oct 8, 2012 2:46am Oct 8, 2012 2:46am
Quoting FXOjafar
Of course demo and live have different prices. Demo has unlimited, simulated liquidity, whereas a live account has real liquidity conditions. Virtual Liquidity plus other demo traders in the book. Dukascopy and FXOpen are the same in that regard.

As for for safety of funds in Australia, you can find plenty of legislation to protect you and you know that FXOpen complies with ASIC guidelines RG212 which deals with how client funds are held and used and what is done with said monies should the broker go bust. ie. the client gets his money before any...
WOW, It is the first time a Broker representative admits to price manipulation in their platforms.

I mean, the prices that are "quoted" in the ECN already reflects the worldwide liquidity. That is why they change, spike or whatever.

So, you mean to tell us that FXopen does not "quote" those prices to their clients?

Can you explain from where then Fxopen get the price that fed the demo accounts? Your statement that depends of other demo traders in the books is somewhat ridiculous. If that was the case... the Eur/Usd could be some 1000 pips away from real worldwide quotes.

If FXopen feed the demo with straight true quotes from the ECN, and then quotes different price to Real accounts clients, then FXopen is manipulating the price on real accounts.

If Fxopen feeds the ECN quotes straight true the real accounts, and the quotes in the demo are different, then FXopen is manipulating the demo quotes... that would render the demos worthless to ck spreads or any other type of testing.

Which one is it?

Dukascopy does not work that way. The price feed is the same for demo and real... obviously, the demo execute instantly, and the real "once in a while would execute 1 or 2 decimals of a pips off due to the delay of accepting the order if too big. But the price of execution does not means that the quoted prices keeps moving along in both platforms in a synchronized way. .. because that "is" the current prices.


Regarding safety of Funds...Here is the difference (in plain English) between trading with FXopen and Dukascopy is the case of the Companies go BUST.

If your deposit in FXopen is $25 000 and FXopen go Bust... after intervention, audit and liquidation, it is found that FXopen loss 50% of clients money... then they will hand you $12 500. You loss 50% of your deposit, that is the end of it.

If Dukascopy go Bust..and after intervention, audit and liquidation it is found that they loss 50% of clients money... you will get $12500 from liquidators and another $12 500 from the Swiss Compensation Fund... that guaranteed all clients up tp 100 000 CHF in Bust cases. You lost NOTHING.

Throwing up how tough ASIC guidelines and rules is just smoking mirror.
The bottom line is that is irrelevant to the possibility of a company to get in financial troubles and stop complying. No company is immune to failure.

J.
  • #17
  • Oct 8, 2012 4:56am Oct 8, 2012 4:56am
Quoting FXOjafar
The big difference here is regulation, especially Australian regulation. ASIC would shut the company down pretty fast if any funny business went on. FXOpen AU is a different company to what you listed above so you know.
If FXOpen AU and NZ are truly independent entities (as stated above), why would FX Open AU expect to receive the support of FX Open NZ in the case of bankruptcy (as stated below)?

Quoting FXOjafar
As for for safety of funds in Australia, you can find plenty of legislation to protect you and you know that FXOpen complies with ASIC guidelines RG212 which deals with how client funds are held and used and what is done with said monies should the broker go bust. ie. the client gets his money before any lawyers or liquidators can touch it. Not to mention we at FXOpen AU have the full support of our friends at FXOpen NZ which is a massive company in it's own right.
  • #18
  • Oct 8, 2012 5:48am Oct 8, 2012 5:48am
Quoting jeuro
WOW, It is the first time a Broker representative admits to price manipulation in their platforms.

I mean, the prices that are "quoted" in the ECN already reflects the worldwide liquidity. That is why they change, spike or whatever.

So, you mean to tell us that FXopen does not "quote" those prices to their clients?

Can you explain from where then Fxopen get the price that fed the demo accounts? Your statement that depends of other demo traders in the books is somewhat ridiculous. If that was the case... the Eur/Usd could be some...
FXOpen gets demo prices from prices offered by several liquidity providers aggregated with the orders of other demo traders.

Quoting jeuro
If FXopen feed the demo with straight true quotes from the ECN, and then quotes different price to Real accounts clients, then FXopen is manipulating the price on real accounts.
That's not true. I think you misunderstand how an ECN operates. Our page at http://www.fxopenaus.com/ECNForexTrading.aspx explains in detail how an ECN works. Please have a read of that.

Quoting jeuro
Dukascopy does not work that way. The price feed is the same for demo and real... obviously, the demo execute instantly, and the real "once in a while would execute 1 or 2 decimals of a pips off due to the delay of accepting the order if too big. But the price of execution does not means that the quoted prices keeps moving along in both platforms in a synchronized way. .. because that "is" the current prices.
Dukascopy doesn't work as you described either so I don't think you have tried accounts at either broker.

Quoting jeuro
Regarding safety of Funds...Here is the difference (in plain English) between trading with FXopen and Dukascopy is the case of the Companies go BUST.

If your deposit in FXopen is $25 000 and FXopen go Bust... after intervention, audit and liquidation, it is found that FXopen loss 50% of clients money... then they will hand you $12 500. You loss 50% of your deposit, that is the end of it.

If Dukascopy go Bust..and after intervention, audit and liquidation it is found that they loss 50% of clients money... you will get $12500 from liquidators...
I am not here to argue the benefits of one regulator over another. ASIC is one of the Major regulatory authorities and recognised worldwide as such. ASIC's tough regulation is one reason why Australia had a very soft landing during the last Global Economic Crisis.
  • #19
  • Oct 8, 2012 6:28am Oct 8, 2012 6:28am
Quoting High.Five
If FXOpen AU and NZ are truly independent entities (as stated above), why would FX Open AU expect to receive the support of FX Open NZ in the case of bankruptcy (as stated below)?
While the companies have separate management, finances etc... FXOpen AU gets substantial support from FXOpen NZ in the form of their world leading ECN technology and years of experience that we may borrow from.
  • #20
  • Oct 8, 2012 7:45am Oct 8, 2012 7:45am
FXOpen gets demo prices from prices offered by several liquidity providers aggregated with the orders of other demo traders.

... what is that suppose to mean??????
So, your demo gets the prices from "different" Liquidity providers then your real accounts Liquidity Providers???

What in the heck "Aggregated with the orders of other demo traders" means ?????.. does it mean that demo prices change according to orders from "demo" traders????.




That's not true. I think you misunderstand how an ECN operates. Our page at http://www.fxopenaus.com/ECNForexTrading.aspx explains in detail how an ECN works. Please have a read of that.

How The ECN (Electronic Communications Network) operates is irrelevant.
The only things that matters is from where FXopen get the prices and what Quote to their clients and what prices feed the demos.




Dukascopy doesn't work as you described either so I don't think you have tried accounts at either broker.

Of course it does... I do trade with Dukascopy Bank.
And Because I have too much to lose I would never trade with an Australian Broker with more then a few thousands that I can afford to lose 100%.

If a forex Brokers go Bust or Bk in Australia, there is no recourse of getting deposits backs... maybe 20, 30 cent per each dollar but never 100% after Regulators stop the Broker from operating.



I am not here to argue the benefits of one regulator over another. ASIC is one of the Major regulatory authorities and recognised worldwide as such. ASIC's tough regulation is one reason why Australia had a very soft landing during the last Global Economic Crisis.

You keep coming back to "Regulator Authorities"... Agencies that regulate, supervise and intervene if necessary due a non-compliance of the regulations. But this regulatory agencies DO NOT dish out money to Clients of Companies that fail or if the agency itself fail to do their job.

In a way you are right.. there is no point in arguing what Regulatory agency is better...ASIC, FINMA, FSA or other EU regulatory agency.

THE BIG DIFFERENCE is that in Countries like Switzerland, UK and the European Union, in top of having the Regulatory Bodies . they also have "Compensation Funds" schemes that will dish out the money to the clients if regulated companies fail. (to certain maximums). So Traders like us have a real independent source for money recovery in case of Broker failure.

J.








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