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The gg53 "Killing Zone"

  • #41
  • Aug 31, 2012 1:20pm Aug 31, 2012 1:20pm
Quoting gms
Draw it from the Navigator window (Sections Custom indicators) to the lower chart window with your mouse.

gary
Thanks, that is the way I did it but it didn't seem to work, but now that G. mentioned that his only said "No Killing Zone" and my does too, I realize it did work before, it just doesn't have anything to display at this time.

Thanks again.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #42
  • Aug 31, 2012 1:33pm Aug 31, 2012 1:33pm
Quoting futurespec
Will look another day.
Why is it in wrong place?
It is on 1st bar after last big move (prev bar * 2). Thought that what you wanted?

My chart shown but couple of mods since posted.
(added min size for large move bar)

M.
M,

You can't define a start point without the following sequence.

The rules again:

1. Start after a big move (defined as an external parameter in multiplication of previous bar size. Allow decimal point).

2. (and) followed by a sequence of alternating up/down bars.
A sequence of (N-1) Ups or (N-1) Downs is also Ok.
i.e Up/Down/Up/Down/Down/Up is Ok. (number of cosecutive bars - External parameter, default 6.)

3. N cosecutive UP bars or N cosecutive DOWN bars marks the End. (N=external parameter, default 3).

4. You don't need an END sequence to draw your "Killing Zone". If the number of bars equal to the number in section 2 (6 by default) - you can strat the indicator draw and trade.


G.
  • #43
  • Aug 31, 2012 2:09pm Aug 31, 2012 2:09pm
Quoting futurespec
Will look another day.
Why is it in wrong place?
It is on 1st bar after last big move (prev bar * 2). Thought that what you wanted?

My chart shown but couple of mods since posted.
(added min size for large move bar)

M.
M,

Analyzed your indi again on USD/CHF.
It's good that you indicate the starting point textually on top left.
I found it - and it's not what we defined as "Big Move".
Big Move is a Big Move by price (Open/Close Diff.) - not total bar length (High/Low Diff.).

The 16'th bars from the right is indeed big in High/Low Diff. but very small in price Diff.

I'll post my corrected interpretation on same chart.

G.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: killingzone2.gif Size: 27 KB
  • #44
  • Aug 31, 2012 2:12pm Aug 31, 2012 2:12pm
Sorry but it's late and am tired but am I missing something here?

By implication any bar will have x bars after eventually.
Just that you want to wait x bars before starting to draw the H/L of the OBV ?

When can you start to trade ... thought had to wait until after you get the 3 Up/Down.
You now saying that you do not need the 3 up/down and that you can trade any time after big bar + x bars?
What is the point of the end zone?

Closing now.

M.
If you think I'm mad, I must be mad
  • #45
  • Aug 31, 2012 2:22pm Aug 31, 2012 2:22pm
Quoting gg53
gary,

It just says "No Killing Zone" (on top left) - which is correct for current chart.
Try another chart - e.g. GU H1 is forming a Killing Zone.

Quoting gg53
Also - we need external parametrs for the "big move" definition, end of KZ bars, minimal number of bars.
I used the parameters of your definition. External parameters require some restructuring of the code. It is late here. Maybe over the weekend ...

gary
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu h1.gif Size: 20 KB
  • #46
  • Aug 31, 2012 2:33pm Aug 31, 2012 2:33pm
Quoting futurespec
Sorry but it's late and am tired but am I missing something here?

By implication any bar will have x bars after eventually.
Just that you want to wait x bars before starting to draw the H/L of the OBV ?

When can you start to trade ... thought had to wait until after you get the 3 Up/Down.
You now saying that you do not need the 3 up/down and that you can trade any time after big bar + x bars?
What is the point of the end zone?

Closing now.

M.
M,

Go and rest, my friend.

There is no point in drawing a "Start" vertical line unless the x following bars are not following the rules. It will not be a "Start" and it will be confusing. Yes, I want to wait with the "Start" signal until the x following bars obey the rules.

From past experience we found out that most of the time x bars are enough to draw the "Killing Zone" - although it involves some risk.

Analyzing the Risk/Reward - we found out that it's Ok.
It's up to the trader to decide whether he wants to trade only on "Closed" KZ or to take some risk for extra potential pips.

In those cases the indicator will continue to update itself until KZ is closed.

Many thanks - and you earned your rest...

G.
  • #47
  • Aug 31, 2012 2:47pm Aug 31, 2012 2:47pm
Quoting gms
Try another chart - e.g. GU H1 is forming a Killing Zone.



I used the parameters of your definition. External parameters require some restructuring of the code. It is late here. Maybe over the weekend ...

gary
Gary,

Thanks !
Trying...

G.
  • #48
  • Aug 31, 2012 3:07pm Aug 31, 2012 3:07pm
Quoting gms
Try another chart - e.g. GU H1 is forming a Killing Zone.



I used the parameters of your definition. External parameters require some restructuring of the code. It is late here. Maybe over the weekend ...

gary
gary,

GU H1 not formed yet.

Tested on GU M1 (testing only) - Won 4 pips in 1 Min. !!
(DON'T TRY IT AT HOME).

G.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: killingzone_gu_m1.gif Size: 25 KB
  • #49
  • Aug 31, 2012 3:54pm Aug 31, 2012 3:54pm
M & Gary,

There is an inherent "bug" in both your indicators.
it's not your fault.

If there is a big "gap" between Friday close and Monday open - the indicator suggest a "Start".

I currently don't have a coherent idea how to deal with it.

I looked at our EA code - and it simply ignore the first bar on Monday compared to Friday close - without any other condition.
I'm not sure that that's the right or correct solution.

Suggestions from everyone here are more than welcome.

G.
  • #50
  • Aug 31, 2012 5:21pm Aug 31, 2012 5:21pm
I hope this clarify the process.

G.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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  • #51
  • Aug 31, 2012 5:36pm Aug 31, 2012 5:36pm
G.

Thanks for posting those charts. I HAVE been doing exactly what you show.

I think what got me confused before were your arrows, meaning, that you had some pointing down for where the long entry is, and some point up for where the short entry is.

Now I realize that your intention was only to point to where the entry was using the arrows, not to tell us the direction of the trade.

Thanks again for taking the time to post them.
Always a Student, Never a Master - Emulate What Works
  • #52
  • Aug 31, 2012 6:11pm Aug 31, 2012 6:11pm
Quoting gg53
I hope this clarify the process.

G.
I've been lurking in the background following your thread with keen interest but like the others, having trouble getting the methodology to cement itself into my aging brain cells.
The old adage "a picture is worth a thousand words" couldn't be more appropriate here. It was like the proverbial light went on.

G - thank you so much!!

Graham
  • #53
  • Aug 31, 2012 6:37pm Aug 31, 2012 6:37pm
Quoting RobinHood
G.

Thanks for posting those charts. I HAVE been doing exactly what you show.

I think what got me confused before were your arrows, meaning, that you had some pointing down for where the long entry is, and some point up for where the short entry is.

Now I realize that your intention was only to point to where the entry was using the arrows, not to tell us the direction of the trade.

Thanks again for taking the time to post them.
RobinHood,

Oh, you are right. I wasn't thinking about the double meaning of the arrows direction.
Sorry, it won't happen again (I hope)...

G.
  • #54
  • Aug 31, 2012 8:03pm Aug 31, 2012 8:03pm
Side benefit of the "Killing Zone":

The area on the chart that define the "Killing Zone" is where most traders loose their money.


Here is why:
You follow the trend like a good boy, you spot a "Breakout" like you where taught in all the text books, and...

Oooops, you are stuck with a loosing position for a day and a half with a massive DrawDown of more than 60 pips.


Even if you are NOT using the OBV system - draw the "Killing Zone" on your chart to avoid such trades.


G.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trendline.gif Size: 29 KB
  • #55
  • Sep 1, 2012 4:41am Sep 1, 2012 4:41am
The pics help a little, thanks.

Need to clarify....
The H/L of OBV is defined with the first 6 (variable) bars after the move?
The H/L do NOT continue to change < end bar ????
The purpose of the end bar is just to start a new search for a big move?

Why are you marking H/L on the price chart ... thought that you did not use that?

I think you are already using your own EA ... what is wrong with that?

M.
If you think I'm mad, I must be mad
  • #56
  • Sep 1, 2012 5:52am Sep 1, 2012 5:52am
Quoting futurespec
The pics help a little, thanks.

Need to clarify....
The H/L of OBV is defined with the first 6 (variable) bars after the move?
The H/L do NOT continue to change < end bar ????
The purpose of the end bar is just to start a new search for a big move?

Why are you marking H/L on the price chart ... thought that you did not use that?

I think you are already using your own EA ... what is wrong with that?

M.
Hi M,

1. Yes, The H/L of OBV is defined with the first 6 (variable) after the Big Move.
Once the H/L of Gadi_OBV is established - you can trade the breakout of Gadi_OBV.

2. The H/L can and somrtimes will continue to change as long as there is no END signal.
Continue the previous trades as usual and trade new ones according to the new H/L.
I already mentioned this issue in some other post:
We found out that the Risk/Reward in trading an "open-ended" Killing-Zone is worth it.

3. The purpose of the "END" signal is that the "Killing-Zone" H/L is no longer valid. Don't trade on those values breakout anymore. Await new Killing-Zone to form.

4. I'm marking it on the chart because I don't have an END signal yet and I want to find the High/Low points to copy to Gadi_OBV.

5. Yes, we have our own EA that uses VOLUME trading. It uses several other techniques (such as in-trend trading, what pairs to trade, currency correlation, etc.).
I promise to share features and logic as we move on. My ultimate goal in this forum is to make it some kind of a "workshop" - with an end-product that we all can enjoy and be proud of.
Later on I'll write an "agenda" with features list.

I (very hardly...) got my partners permission to discuss and share the logic and features - but not to share code.

G.
  • #57
  • Sep 1, 2012 6:02am Sep 1, 2012 6:02am
I think that I must be being exceedingly dense here, sorry......

2. The H/L can and sometimes will continue to change as long as there is no END signal.

How can you be trading a BO of the H/L OBV if it is continuing to change? If it is changing then by definition it cannot be a BO.

M.
If you think I'm mad, I must be mad
  • #58
  • Sep 1, 2012 7:02am Sep 1, 2012 7:02am
Quoting futurespec
I think that I must be being exceedingly dense here, sorry......

2. The H/L can and sometimes will continue to change as long as there is no END signal.

How can you be trading a BO of the H/L OBV if it is continuing to change? If it is changing then by definition it cannot be a BO.

M.
M,

It's good that you are asking all those question - it indicates that my explanations are not sufficient - because I'm doing it for so long that things seems obvious - and obviously they are not...
Keep asking !

Movement of Gadi_OBV occurs only AFTER bar close if High/Low is new and outside the current zone.

G.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: high_low_move.gif Size: 31 KB
  • #59
  • Sep 1, 2012 7:14am Sep 1, 2012 7:14am
Denser & even more dense!

I can see that you move the HL in OBV on H2, L2, L3 but when do you take the 1st trade in that instance.

First I thought that you did not trade until after 3 bar up/down but now believe that not true (just signifies end of that trading zone setup)

Then I thought you set HL after 6 bar and trade that HL until 3bar setup.

Now I do not know when you trade?
Do you take 1st trade at H2 and (BO of first 6 bar HL) also reset the High at that time?
2nd trade at L2 and reset Low ??
3rd trade at L3 and reset Low ??
(am ignoring any TP/SL for any of above)

M.
If you think I'm mad, I must be mad
  • #60
  • Sep 1, 2012 7:50am Sep 1, 2012 7:50am
Quoting futurespec
Denser & even more dense!

I can see that you move the HL in OBV on H2, L2, L3 but when do you take the 1st trade in that instance.

First I thought that you did not trade until after 3 bar up/down but now believe that not true (just signifies end of that trading zone setup)

Then I thought you set HL after 6 bar and trade that HL until 3bar setup.

Now I do not know when you trade?
Do you take 1st trade at H2 and (BO of first 6 bar HL) also reset the High at that time?
2nd trade at L2 and reset Low ??
3rd trade at L3 and reset Low ??
(am ignoring...
M,

No L2/L3 trades.
The trade at L1 continues untill exhausted.

G.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: high_low_move2.gif Size: 34 KB
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