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Virtually nobody is making money on Oanda accounts

  • #41
  • Aug 14, 2012 1:14am Aug 14, 2012 1:14am
Quoting Pipsgeek

@pbb
The Dutch tax department is just very lucky that they are one of few western countries without insanely high capital gains tax. In all other areas it's nearly a communist state, only a few scandinavian countries are worse.

The problems in Europe are more due to excessive taxation of everything that adds wealth.
Everything is taxed here, even when you don't make money. The average individual person is better of with a capital gains tax than with a tax that's been taken regardless of any increase of ones net worth. This probably won't count for some traders, but will for the common people with savings or long term investments (they are lucky if they make a small annual %). Interest on your savings is low, stocks are at the same level as 10 years ago, inflation is around 2%. Dividends won't make up for that, when long term investing. So your net woth goes down while the tax department still earns on your bank account.

For non-residents and foreign entities there is a big advantage yes, but I don't think that helps the residents that do have to pay.
  • #42
  • Aug 14, 2012 6:19am Aug 14, 2012 6:19am
I find the topic of this thread hilarious ....
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #43
  • Aug 16, 2012 9:13am Aug 16, 2012 9:13am
Quoting pemully
I find the topic of this thread hilarious ....
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #44
  • Aug 17, 2012 3:56am Aug 17, 2012 3:56am
Quoting pbb
Let’s assume your net worth = 200k = 4%*30%*200k =€2 400,-
or 1.2 % of your net worth
  • #45
  • Aug 17, 2012 3:57am Aug 17, 2012 3:57am
Quoting pbb

For non-residents and foreign entities there is a big advantage yes, but I don't think that helps the residents that do have to pay.
What big advantage do they have ?
  • #46
  • Aug 28, 2012 3:50am Aug 28, 2012 3:50am
Quoting StephanusR
You did not read my post. I made a generalized observation about forex brokers and stating that any person peddling his performance record must do so from an Oanda account at least, since Oanda won't be involved in uploading fake trading statements for forex stats publishing sites where banana forex firms exploit the survivalist bias.

My point was to praise Oanda and cast doubt on all other firms.
I think it may be the title of the thread that is causing the confusion. I was wondering too if you are for or against Oanda. But thanx for the clarification.
  • #47
  • Aug 28, 2012 11:06am Aug 28, 2012 11:06am
Quoting itop
I think it may be the title of the thread that is causing the confusion. I was wondering too if you are for or against Oanda. But thanx for the clarification.
There is one more point about the survivalist bias I wish to make. Oanda only allows you 20 Real trading accounts. When a person uploads his Real Oanda account, it is most probably one account out of 17 losing accounts. This does not mean the person is trying to be dishonest. It could be that he burned through many accounts and now finally have manged to figure out what to do. And my original point with the OP remains: there is not a single Oanda account on this major forex stat site (myfxbook.com) that reflects such a trader. Be careful for companies showing you their trading results, you are interested in individual trading their own personal Oanda accounts. Thousands of companies can be opened and exploiting the survivalist bias only publish the winning accounts. Even a forex trading company will still have individual traders risking their own money in their personal Oanda accounts - I want these accounts to avoid survivalist bias. The fact that these winning Oanda accounts don't exist confirms the general rule of thumb that 99% of forex traders don't make it: the forex market is utterly random. Any person who does beat it even over a two year period is a genius.

Thus such a person must be given the benefit of the doubt by watching this real account over a period of at least six months. If this account can show steady gains with a low adverse excursion ratio (ADR) then you might have a winning system. IF the drawdowns as % of equity is too much then the account will fail.

Six months is a reasonable waiting period. If it still manages after one year then the trader indicates he his methods has a statistical edge over the random flux of the market. Two year old accounts is almost unheard off: they don't seem to exist. Or if they do exist, have large draw-downs (peak to valley) and won't exist for much longer.
  • #48
  • Aug 28, 2012 12:48pm Aug 28, 2012 12:48pm
Quoting StephanusR
there is not a single Oanda account on this major forex stat site (myfxbook.com) that reflects such a trader.
This is a reason not to trust myfxbook in my opinion. That site can be readily gamed, for the reasons you mention and in several other ways. If anything, this a testament to Oanda's honesty, since Oanda accounts can't be used for gaming the site the way other brokers' can.

Quote
the forex market is utterly random. Any person who does beat it even over a two year period is a genius.
These guys are good but certainly aren't geniuses. And these guys (as a group) have been at it for over 25 years. Both groups have their fair share of survivalist bias, but the 1-5% long-term profitable are out there.
  • #49
  • Aug 28, 2012 1:35pm Aug 28, 2012 1:35pm
Quoting Trader KGB
This is a reason not to trust myfxbook in my opinion. That site can be readily gamed, for the reasons you mention and in several other ways. If anything, this a testament to Oanda's honesty, since Oanda accounts can't be used for gaming the site the way other brokers' can.

These guys are good but certainly aren't geniuses. And these guys (as a group) have been at it for over 25 years. Both groups have their fair...

Where do you base your 1- 5 % on ?
  • #50
  • Aug 28, 2012 2:23pm Aug 28, 2012 2:23pm
Quoting StephanusR
And my original point with the OP remains: there is not a single Oanda account on this major forex stat site (myfxbook.com) that reflects such a trader.
As far as I am aware, myfxbook discontinued the ability to upload Oanda's FXtrade platform some time ago.

Amazingly enough, you can upload the FXTrade platform on FF's trade explorer though.

Why myfxbook wasn't able to work hand-in-hand with Oanda over this issue is beyond me.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #51
  • Aug 28, 2012 11:41pm Aug 28, 2012 11:41pm
Quoting Forexeurusd
Where do you base your 1- 5 % on ?
The various statistical studies that show that ~1-5% of traders are profitable over the long haul.
  • #52
  • Aug 29, 2012 5:34am Aug 29, 2012 5:34am
Quoting Trader KGB
The various statistical studies that show that ~1-5% of traders are profitable over the long haul.


You have a link to those studies ?
  • #53
  • Aug 29, 2012 7:55am Aug 29, 2012 7:55am
A trader is a winner or a loser, has nothing to do with Oanda
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #54
  • Aug 29, 2012 8:52am Aug 29, 2012 8:52am
Quoting KillerWhale
A trader is a winner or a loser, has nothing to do with Oanda
1. Why do people win?
2. Why do People lose?
3. Why are you a whale and not a shark?
4. Explain third law of thermodynamics with reference to a divorce.
The Thief of Wall Street
  • #55
  • Aug 29, 2012 9:08am Aug 29, 2012 9:08am
Quoting Chicky
1. Why do people win?
2. Why do People lose?
3. Why are you a whale and not a shark?
4. Explain third law of thermodynamics with reference to a divorce.
That's a long story
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #56
  • Aug 29, 2012 9:24am Aug 29, 2012 9:24am
Quoting Trader KGB
This is a reason not to trust myfxbook in my opinion. That site can be readily gamed, for the reasons you mention and in several other ways. If anything, this a testament to Oanda's honesty, since Oanda accounts can't be used for gaming the site the way other brokers' can.
If you don't mind Trader KGB I would like to know more about this 'gaming' you speak of. I am new to this world of 'FF' and myfxbook and was contemplating uploading a track record somewhere come the end of next quarter, and will be deliberating the best way of doing so.

Quoting Trader KGB
And these guys (as a group) have been at it for over 25 years. Both groups have their fair share of survivalist bias, but the 1-5% long-term profitable are out there.
Exactly. I'm utterly confused to be honest, at the point of this discussion.

Brokers such as Oanda, Alpari, etc serve their purpose for retail trading. If a retail trader then trades for an institution, they won't be dealing on these platforms we are discussing, so proportion of successful traders inherently remains miniscule by design, in that such brokers are designed for the new trader in mind.
  • #57
  • Aug 29, 2012 10:55am Aug 29, 2012 10:55am
Quoting Patience
As far as I am aware, myfxbook discontinued the ability to upload Oanda's FXtrade platform some time ago.

Amazingly enough, you can upload the FXTrade platform on FF's trade explorer though.

Why myfxbook wasn't able to work hand-in-hand with Oanda over this issue is beyond me.
I'm not sure why you think so as I'm using them with my Oanda account.
If you search Google for "myfxbook oanda" and you'll get here: http://blog.myfxbook.com/2011/11/14/...pported-again/
  • #58
  • Aug 29, 2012 12:22pm Aug 29, 2012 12:22pm
Quoting Blad4
If you don't mind Trader KGB I would like to know more about this 'gaming' you speak of. I am new to this world of 'FF' and myfxbook and was contemplating uploading a track record somewhere come the end of next quarter, and will be deliberating the best way of doing so..
Discussing it here would only encourage it further. Myfxbook largely benefits two groups: EA sellers & brokers. The brokers offer rebates to the EA sellers. Follow the money and the incentive to game the system is quite large.

Notice there aren't any CTAs or serious money managers on myfxbook, it's just all EA garbage..
  • #59
  • Aug 29, 2012 12:24pm Aug 29, 2012 12:24pm
Quoting Forexeurusd
You have a link to those studies ?
Given how many times this discussion has come up over the years, I really wish I had bookmarked them. They largely dealt with equities and futures traders (as those firms are more readily audited). Rest assured, the results are the same or worse for FX traders.
  • #60
  • Aug 29, 2012 1:10pm Aug 29, 2012 1:10pm
Quoting smart.ben7
I'm not sure why you think so as I'm using them with my Oanda account.
If you search Google for "myfxbook oanda" and you'll get here: http://blog.myfxbook.com/2011/11/14/...pported-again/
No, I didn't realise that myfxbook had reinstated the ability to upload FXtrade accounts so thank you for pointing that out to me.

Sadly, I guess I am going to have to agree with the OP then. Virtually nobody is making money or Oanda traders are very shy about showing their performance.

I'll leave that to everyone else to decide.
Nothing worth having is easy.
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