Are New Traders Who Are Successful Hated? | Forex Factory

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Are New Traders Who Are Successful Hated?

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 12, 2012 7:01pm Aug 12, 2012 7:01pm
I read a lot of stories on here about how people had to go through this long, torturous process to become successful at trading Forex. It's so common that it almost seems like there's a union mentality about the whole thing. You know, the whole "you gotta pay your dues" and "you gotta get crapped on a lot before being successful" type of thinking. You can see written in between the lines of what people post here.

If someone was successful right out of the gate, I have to wonder if they should just keep it to themselves. My guess is that those who have already made up their minds that nobody can go from zero to making a living at this game in 6 months would call someone a liar who decided to share their success after actually pulling it off. After all, it's natural human psychology to tear down what something that doesn't jive with one's pre-conceived notions than to challenge their one's own beliefs.
  • #2
  • Edited 9:01pm Aug 12, 2012 7:55pm | Edited 9:01pm
It's not so much they tear the person down, as warn the itinerant trader that only a well-formed plan can be consistently repeated for profit over time. The lucky trader who used their gut instinct to capture gains their first trade, uses an approach that, alone and not at least carefully used, can be easily steered away from its intention in an aberrant situation and include faulty information with its reading.

I've seen traders here who did and have made it earlier than most. They probably had good business/emotion sense, and so had at least an above-average grasp of how and where to apply their gut instinct.
  • #3
  • Aug 12, 2012 8:16pm Aug 12, 2012 8:16pm
No, we know there will be a moment when they will fuck up really bad. Somwhere on the road someone has to eat crap to learn, unless you're a trader for a couple of months then you can get away with it like at roulette.
  • #4
  • Aug 12, 2012 8:26pm Aug 12, 2012 8:26pm
Quoting swingtraderf
No, we know there will be a moment when they will fuck up really bad. Somwhere on the road someone has to eat crap to learn, unless you're a trader for a couple of months then you can get away with it like at roulette.
It's so crazy that you said this because I almost added in the original post that instead of tearing the guy down directly, they'll just talk about how it's only a matter of time before they blow up. It's like I heard you coming from a mile away.
  • #5
  • Aug 12, 2012 8:44pm Aug 12, 2012 8:44pm
"Forget your fancy indicators. What do you SEE in the charts?"

I see a lot of historical price points which have no bearing whatsoever on what the future holds.
  • #6
  • Aug 12, 2012 9:03pm Aug 12, 2012 9:03pm
Do the indicators have any bearing on what the future holds?
  • #7
  • Aug 12, 2012 9:49pm Aug 12, 2012 9:49pm
A new trader could be rain man.


The only way to be successful is to be really lucky or only entry positions that have a higher probability of success. The issue with probabilities is that you should inevitably hit a patch where even the most probable trades turn negative. Ideally, the odds run in your favour and you never have a string of losses. But anyone doing this for a reasonable amount of time has hit the improbable bad run and the improbable great run.

Or you're rain man... and no one likes rain man
  • #8
  • Aug 12, 2012 10:16pm Aug 12, 2012 10:16pm
Quoting FXAssassin
It's so crazy that you said this because I almost added in the original post that instead of tearing the guy down directly, they'll just talk about how it's only a matter of time before they blow up. It's like I heard you coming from a mile away.
When it rains outside people get wet, right or wrong FXass?
  • #9
  • Aug 13, 2012 1:10am Aug 13, 2012 1:10am
Quoting FXAssassin
I read a lot of stories on here about how people had to go through this long, torturous process to become successful at trading Forex. It's so common that it almost seems like there's a union mentality about the whole thing. You know, the whole "you gotta pay your dues" and "you gotta get crapped on a lot before being successful" type of thinking. You can see written in between the lines of what people post here.

If someone was successful right out of the gate, I have to wonder if they should just keep it to themselves. My guess is that those...

Trading is just like any other endeavour. How many people do anything great straight from the off? Whatever it is, you need to study, learn, practise and gain experience. Some people get through this cycle a lot quicker than others and some have a natural affinity to the task and find it a lot easier right from the start, but they are the small minority.

About trading specifically, I'd say it has the relatively unusual characteristic of normal human psychology being generally ill-suited to the task. Controlling and adapting your own psyche is the probably the biggest hurdle traders face, most find it pretty difficult, hence the very high percentage of blowouts and typically long learning curve.
  • #10
  • Aug 13, 2012 2:16am Aug 13, 2012 2:16am
Quoting marcmarc
About trading specifically, I'd say it has the relatively unusual characteristic of normal human psychology being generally ill-suited to the task. Controlling and adapting your own psyche is the probably the biggest hurdle traders face, most find it pretty difficult, hence the very high percentage of blowouts and typically long learning curve.
I guess that does make sense.
  • #11
  • Edited 7:29am Aug 13, 2012 2:50am | Edited 7:29am
.
Actually, we should not be arrogant and think because we have been trading for years that we have the keys to the market. We should listen to anyone that is profitable for reals, regardless of how long they have been doing it.

It is absolute possible that someone can go from newbie to be profitable in a short time. But requires a logical mind and wisdom. I would have no reason to doubt if someone tells me that they have achieved profitability in a short time. But if they share at least a minimum of their basic edge for their profitability , I would be able to know if to doubt it or not.

First thing anyone should do is learn how the market works. But not from the speculators point of view. This market is 100% efficient, with small volume or huge volume traded. Therefore, there are no indicators that would ever give you more then real 50/50 probability that the market give us by default. Price goes either up or down.

Knowing that the market is 100% efficient, with just a little bit of logic we can deduct that the current price will "always" diverge in an UN-predictible way from any and all calculations made with the past data. (indicators).
Also, most theories for technical analysts were made for the stock market, and the fundamental are so different that is almost absurd to attempt getting some kind of meaning from them for exchange rates.


If any body start by knowing the market for what it is, and avoid the indicators route, can be making profitable strategies in no time. Mastering a trading platform is also necessary.


J.
.
  • #12
  • Aug 13, 2012 3:05am Aug 13, 2012 3:05am
I think most of it comes from those traders having already been through the "invincible" phase, where you trade on instinct and somehow to manage to make a fair bit of money, putting it down to talent. I know I had that for my first few months, but in retrospect it was mostly dumb luck and overconfidence from initial success, eventually it ended.

That's not to say it can't happen - that you are immediately consistently profitable - it's just that most of the time its just a transient occurrence, so people react the way they do from their own experience.

I assume the people who don't get beginners luck probably don't continue pursuing trading, and go on to more worthwhile endeavors. I'd say there is probably some sort of skew on FF towards people experiencing beginners luck.
"Don't Panic..."
  • #13
  • Aug 13, 2012 3:08am Aug 13, 2012 3:08am
Best way to be successful quickly is to stay away from forums like this. You just learn bad habits from pedestalled members, most of whom have no idea what they are talking about.
  • #14
  • Aug 13, 2012 3:21am Aug 13, 2012 3:21am
I don't think that there is any union mentality in it one can become successful without having to fail first it depends on your luck.
  • #15
  • Aug 13, 2012 7:25am Aug 13, 2012 7:25am
You might have gotten some answers already.

The hard truth is that it is almost if not impossible to be a superstar right out of the bat.

What happens most of the time is people get lucky. They then proceed to think that they are gifted or talented... until one day they fail horribly.

Imagine playing russion roulette with a 1000 barrel gun. Luck can be cruel like that.

There is no way to be successful in this business unless that person has a well thought out and proven plan backed by solid psychology. To obtain these the only way is to go through time trials. Going through multiple market cycles of bull, bear and sideways - occasionally needing to survive past the black swan events (like subprime or flash crash). Only after surviving these trials can one call themselves pro,gifted, talented.

Some are lucky that they encounter this failure early in their careers. That allows them time to rethink and finally pull through. Some are not so lucky that they only fail after having been very high up. For these people it is harder because the walk from 1mil to 100k is like a walk of shame. Totally different from the journey from 0 to 100k
  • #16
  • Aug 13, 2012 7:56am Aug 13, 2012 7:56am
Quoting FXAssassin
I read a lot of stories on here about how people had to go through this long, torturous process to become successful at trading Forex. It's so common that it almost seems like there's a union mentality about the whole thing. You know, the whole "you gotta pay your dues" and "you gotta get crapped on a lot before being successful" type of thinking. You can see written in between the lines of what people post here.

If someone was successful right out of the gate, I have to wonder if they should just keep it to themselves. My guess is that...
May I ask what the point of your question is?

If you are successful, why worry about other people's opinion? More than one trader has said about their industry "if you need a friend, get a dog."

If you are not successful, then why not listen to those who are more experienced? Maybe there's something to it.

And being able to make a living after six months doesn't mean that you are successful, just that you have some talent.

Long-term success in trading is about discovering all your blindspots, both in market- and self-understanding. If you haven't done that, they will certainly discover you and upset your perception of being successful.

And learning about your blindspots is easiest if you are mentored by somebody who has discovered his.
  • #17
  • Aug 13, 2012 8:00am Aug 13, 2012 8:00am
Quoting medici
May I ask what the point of your question is?

If you are successful, why worry about other people's opinion? More than one trader has said about their industry "if you need a friend, get a dog."

If you are not successful, then why not listen to those who are more experienced? Maybe there's something to it.

And being able to make a living after six months doesn't mean that you are successful, just that you have some talent.

Long-term success in trading is about discovering all your blindspots, both in market- and self-understanding. If you...
Medici,

I hope traders take you up on this (especially the part in bold):

Long-term success in trading is about discovering all your blindspots, both in market- and self-understanding. If you haven't done that, they will certainly discover you and upset your perception of being successful.

And learning about your blindspots is easiest if you are mentored by somebody who has discovered his.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #18
  • Aug 13, 2012 8:13am Aug 13, 2012 8:13am
Quoting FX4Newbies
Medici,

I hope traders take you up on this (especially the part in bold):

Long-term success in trading is about discovering all your blindspots, both in market- and self-understanding. If you haven't done that, they will certainly discover you and upset your perception of being successful.

And learning about your blindspots is easiest if you are mentored by somebody who has discovered his.

FX4
Hello old friend,

thanks for that. And apologies for not saying "his or hers"
  • #19
  • Aug 13, 2012 8:27am Aug 13, 2012 8:27am
Not just Traders but anyone who use's their mind and becomes successful is hated by the world in general. It's more to do with jealousy than anything else.

On the subject of Mentors:

Over-rated and waste of money. Just train your brain through the lessons of trading and you are on your way. Once you know how to analyze the situation or results of a trading account nothing can stop you, not just in trading but life in general.

DONT THROW YOUR MONEY AT MENTORS. Plenty of helpful people around who will give you direction, whether you follow it or not is your decision.
  • #20
  • Aug 13, 2012 9:35am Aug 13, 2012 9:35am
Quoting tech_dream
Not just Traders but anyone who use's their mind and becomes successful is hated by the world in general. It's more to do with jealousy than anything else.

On the subject of Mentors:

Over-rated and waste of money. Just train your brain through the lessons of trading and you are on your way. Once you know how to analyze the situation or results of a trading account nothing can stop you, not just in trading but life in general.

DONT THROW YOUR MONEY AT MENTORS. Plenty of helpful people around who will give you direction, whether you follow it...
I agree about the money part - anybody successful in trading wouldn't be bothered with the peanuts that a newbie could offer.
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