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  • #4,881
  • Edited 6:40pm Aug 9, 2012 6:29pm | Edited 6:40pm
Quoting JR97
My blog goes over how to do a quick and dirty Gann Square in MT4 for intraday charts

http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.com/20...struction.html

http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.com/20...nn-square.html

http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.com/20...-of-price.html

http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.com/20...e-of-time.html


Dear JR97, I'm getting into Gann and really want to get it right. On your page of your blog (http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.com/20...struction.html), you explain how to setup a gann grid.
I have three questions about that (those questions are open for anyone who has the answers, thanks a lot for your help) :

1- In the formula, you say "The key component here is the .25. I want 45°. 45° is 1/8 of the circle or .25. 180° would be 1, 360° = 2, etc."

Why do you use a 200% scale (45 is 2x12.5%=0.25 of 360) and not a 100% scale (45 would be 12.5%=0.125 of 360) for the calculation.

BTW, where does this formula comes from ? Can someone explain me the meaning ? Thanks.

2- When I square time, do I have to count the first bar as 1, so bar n° 46 would have a line on it, or do I have to count the first bar as 0, so next bar to have a line is 45th ? Thanks. Your help is much appreciated.

3- I have read somewhere that pertinent percent levels of the circle (which are used in zodiacs) are 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 270, 300, 330 and 360. So why Gann tools use multiples of 45 instead of 30 ? I guess it is because of 45 angles, but are 30° levels also pertinent or are they just used in astrology to divide the circle ? Thanks.
  • #4,882
  • Aug 10, 2012 1:07am Aug 10, 2012 1:07am
hi airquest,

Quoting airquest
1- In the formula, you say "The key component here is the .25. I want 45°. 45° is 1/8 of the circle or .25. 180° would be 1, 360° = 2, etc."

Why do you use a 200% scale (45 is 2x12.5%=0.25 of 360) and not a 100% scale (45 would be 12.5%=0.125 of 360) for the calculation.
There have been many sources that wrote about the pips vs. degrees, you are of course entirly free to do your own statistics and take whatever number of pips you want for the number of degrees you want.

Quoting airquest
2- When I square time, do I have to count the first bar as 1, so bar n° 46 would have a line on it, or do I have to count the first bar as 0, so next bar to have a line is 45th ? Thanks. Your help is much appreciated.
It doesn't matter, because if the squares would give such a perfect trading result then as such, you will notice the right way of doing it on the screen immediatly. Since they're not as perfect in their results, it therefore doesn't matter which bar you take. A bit of metatrader knowledge teaches however that the current bar is always bar 0.

Quoting airquest
3- I have read somewhere that pertinent percent levels of the circle (which are used in zodiacs) are 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 270, 300, 330 and 360. So why Gann tools use multiples of 45 instead of 30 ? I guess it is because of 45 angles, but are 30° levels also pertinent or are they just used in astrology to divide the circle ? Thanks.
[/quote]

Astrology also teaches the 45 and 36 degree angles. On top of that, try imagining the distance of a circle covered by a 30 degree angle, and extrapolate that to the 2-Dimensional chart, the distance becomes larger... ie, one could go back to the ancient egypts and try to find a solution of squaring the circle, that should give you an interesting awareness.

Good luck, and may I recommend reading the material on gann.su while it is still available? a lot of the answers on your questions are covered there.
  • #4,883
  • Aug 10, 2012 4:00am Aug 10, 2012 4:00am
Hi Friends,
Here is some rough astro template, functional, but with less S/R lines for some currencies, history aspects (major) for usd only. There will be update of course May be i should make one for full lines (S/R and aspects) and one for the less (most important) S/R and aspects templates. That's for now, try it and feel free to leave a comment or suggestion! Happy trading to all!
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl eurjpy astrolines.tpl   162 KB | 561 downloads
File Type: tpl gbpaud astrolines.tpl   165 KB | 437 downloads
File Type: tpl usdcad astrolines.tpl   214 KB | 510 downloads
File Type: tpl usdjpy astrolines.tpl   282 KB | 514 downloads
  • #4,884
  • Aug 10, 2012 5:24am Aug 10, 2012 5:24am
Quoting Hades
Hi Friends,
Here is some rough astro template, functional, but with less S/R lines for some currencies, history aspects (major) for usd only. There will be update of course May be i should make one for full lines (S/R and aspects) and one for the less (most important) S/R and aspects templates. That's for now, try it and feel free to leave a comment or suggestion! Happy trading to all!
Hades Thank You
  • #4,885
  • Aug 10, 2012 9:04am Aug 10, 2012 9:04am
Quoting Sti
hi airquest,

There have been many sources that wrote about the pips vs. degrees, you are of course entirly free to do your own statistics and take whatever number of pips you want for the number of degrees you want.

It doesn't matter, because if the squares would give such a perfect trading result then as such, you will notice the right way of doing it on the screen immediatly. Since they're not as perfect in their results, it therefore doesn't matter which bar you take. A bit of metatrader knowledge teaches however that the current bar is...
Thanks a lot for your explanation. I will read documentations on Gann.su.
I have one more question, about the Gann Square (as explained at this page : http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.ch/200...nn-square.html). JR97 explains that it does not matter the scale you choose (can be 360 time x 360 pips, 90x90, Gann numbers like square of 52(104), 144, etc.).
But I don't understand one thing : do we have to chose equal (or multiple) numbers for the x and y axis. I've noticed that when numbers are chosen randomly and are either not equal or not multiples, the angles from corners to corners don't make 45°.
Do we obligatory have to get 45° angles from corners to corners or that doesn't make any difference ? In the article, he chosed a square of 360 time x 976 pips, which does not make 45° angles from corners to corners.
Thanks.
  • #4,886
  • Aug 10, 2012 9:17am Aug 10, 2012 9:17am
Quoting airquest
Thanks a lot for your explanation. I will read documentations on Gann.su.
I have one more question, about the Gann Square (as explained at this page : http://4xcycletrader.blogspot.ch/200...nn-square.html). JR97 explains that it does not matter the scale you choose (can be 360 time x 360 pips, 90x90, Gann numbers like square of 52(104), 144, etc.).
But I don't understand one thing : do we have to chose equal (or multiple) numbers for the x and y axis. I've noticed that when numbers are chosen randomly and are either not equal...
What you see can be deceptive. 45° line means only the diagonal line of a square, but how you define the square on both the x and y axis is entirely flexible. Think about it as hand-drawn charts: whether you want 36 hours as one side of square and 360 pips as the y axis, or whatever random number of hours and pips as the size of the square, the diagonal line of the square is the 45° line.

Let me say something that would be very unpopular here. Do you want to trade to make money or you just want a side hobby for some intellectual satisfaction? If you want to trade to make money, Gann is the most labour intensive and most uncertain way to go about it. There are plenty other methods to trade to pull $$$ into your account, and most of them do not involve things that are totally uncertain and things that depend highly on your own interpretation/guess and nobody can truly tell if it's right or wrong. Some people like to quote that cliche that trading is a matter of probability. If it's a matter of probability, it doesn't seem to enhance the odds that much by adding more fuzzy and vague uncertainty into the mix.

Just my 2 cents/pence.... which in trading terms can be worth quite a bit or very little, depending on how you trade

(Also, I would like to add to what Sti said: read the materials. If you've done the reading, it's fairly easy to find out why 180 is 1, and 360 is 2. Good luck.)
  • #4,887
  • Aug 10, 2012 11:20am Aug 10, 2012 11:20am
Quoting Oshawa
What you see can be deceptive. 45° line means only the diagonal line of a square, but how you define the square on both the x and y axis is entirely flexible. Think about it as hand-drawn charts: whether you want 36 hours as one side of square and 360 pips as the y axis, or whatever random number of hours and pips as the size of the square, the diagonal line of the square is the 45° line.

Let me say something that would be very unpopular here. Do you want to trade to make money or you just want a side hobby for some intellectual satisfaction?...
Ok thanks, so if I understand well, by 45° we do not really mean an angle that has 45 degrees ? For exemple if I draw a square totally randomly by 31 time to 1194 pips (5 digits), that would give me a 75° angle from corners to corners. So 45° is just a term of use ? Last question, just to be sure about the terms that are used, after that I will return to reading.

Like you I think it is an intellectual satisfaction, I quite like putting a bit of esoteric in life. BTW, what are the best methods you recommend to make $$$, just to compare with mine or maybe learn new stuff. Thanks a lot again.
  • #4,888
  • Aug 10, 2012 11:23am Aug 10, 2012 11:23am
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  • #4,889
  • Aug 10, 2012 11:49am Aug 10, 2012 11:49am
Quoting airquest
Ok thanks, so if I understand well, by 45° we do not really mean an angle that has 45 degrees ? For exemple if I draw a square totally randomly by 31 time to 1194 pips (5 digits), that would give me a 75° angle from corners to corners. So 45° is just a term of use ? Last question, just to be sure about the terms that are used, after that I will return to reading.
well i guess this question is best answered with another question: why would you want a totally random square?

perhaps it's best to find out the reasons behind the square-sizes that JR76 used? they are in fact all related to the divisors of a circle, so hence they all have a relationship, hence the also share relationships to angles. not just the 45 angle, but the 90 angle, the 30 angle, the 60 angle. all these lines (the fan) have a relationship to the time period AND the price distance.

Quoting airquest
Like you I think it is an intellectual satisfaction, I quite like putting a bit of esoteric in life. BTW, what are the best methods you recommend to make $$$, just to compare with mine or maybe learn new stuff. Thanks a lot again.
support and resistance
  • #4,890
  • Aug 10, 2012 11:58am Aug 10, 2012 11:58am
10-08-2012 = 1+8+2+1+2 = 14

I think the Manchester United floating of $14 is a good price for this day.
I wish them good luck, for now I'm still a Barca fan
  • #4,891
  • Edited 9:53pm Aug 10, 2012 12:36pm | Edited 9:53pm
Quoting Sti
well i guess this question is best answered with another question: why would you want a totally random square?
perhaps it's best to find out the reasons behind the square-sizes that JR76 used? they are in fact all related to the divisors of a circle, so hence they all have a relationship, hence the also share relationships to angles. not just the 45 angle, but the 90 angle, the 30 angle, the 60 angle. all these lines (the fan) have a relationship to the time period AND the price distance
Either there is something I don't get or my question is not understood. The point is not to draw a random square or not, it is about the rules to draw the square. I presume that a 45° angle is an obligation, but what do we mean by that ? It is 45° in relation to what ? The angle between the bottom of the square and the diagonal ? In the screenshot below I've squared 360 bars to 400 pips. The real measurement of the angle is 48°. A 45° angle would be the other red line on the right of the diagonal, the one that is not centered (see the protractor on the screen). So do I have to adapt the range either in pips or in time so that the diagonal truly makes 45° or is that correct ?
Note : Angles are measured with protractor from the bottom of the square.
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  • #4,892
  • Aug 11, 2012 12:09am Aug 11, 2012 12:09am
i think i posed the right question, why do you want a random square?
in other words, why do you try to draw a 45 degree line from cortner to corner in a rectangle?

how would you expect a 45 degree angle to look like in a rectangle? Another point of advice, do not rely on metatrader to draw anything correct with regards to lines and angles.
reasons for this:
-first of all the weekends
-no fixed scaling no matter how hard you try

stick rather to the maths, a sqaure is a square, a 45 degree line is 45 degrees, it has no relationship to the opposite corner of a sqaure if the square is not square... if the square is a rectangle then by no means whatsoever will you reach the opposite corner under a 45 degree angle

now if you want to draw this all in metatrader, be prepared for it to shift, nudge, fall out... it can be done, but it requires craft
  • #4,893
  • Aug 11, 2012 3:47am Aug 11, 2012 3:47am
I obviously can not explain. For this again quote from the book of James A. Hyerczyk.

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For this just talk. These are templates (permanent graphics). Then is the market. It does not always enter into these templates. Then what should we do? To change the template or to change the market.
Some changing market. For example, change the length of time a bar to allow 6 minutes and 25 seconds. Then graph of the market looks different and precisely fit the template. Then we are left only to hope that the market will continue to run the pattern. And then we will be precise in our predictions. But the market is a market. Sometimes it does and sometimes not.
I suggest you forget about the templates. Let us use the tools of Gann, and so on where the market is telling us. In this way NEVER to have a contradictions in our graphs.
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #4,894
  • Edited 6:05am Aug 11, 2012 5:11am | Edited 6:05am
Quoting Sti
i think i posed the right question, why do you want a random square?
in other words, why do you try to draw a 45 degree line from cortner to corner in a rectangle?

how would you expect a 45 degree angle to look like in a rectangle? Another point of advice, do not rely on metatrader to draw anything correct with regards to lines and angles.
reasons for this:
-first of all the weekends
-no fixed scaling no matter how hard you try

stick rather to the maths, a sqaure is a square, a 45 degree line is 45 degrees, it has no relationship to the...
The reason is simple, I chose these numbers because it fits to price movement. The up move is 400 pips and the time is about 360 bars. So I draw a 400x360 bars. I know this makes a rectangle and not a square. That was my question, do I have to make this range a perfect square or not ? According to Gann's rules do I have to draw a perfect square or a rectangle is ok ? That was my question, and if I read well, I think your answer is yes, I have to draw a perfect square. But then, I don't understand why JR97 chose 976 pips to 360 bars in his article. That doesn't make a perfect square at all.
Anyway thanks a lot for your explanations.
  • #4,895
  • Aug 11, 2012 5:28am Aug 11, 2012 5:28am
In the sense of writings by me above this is my chart. Does this graph shows support and resistance?

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #4,896
  • Edited 10:08am Aug 11, 2012 9:02am | Edited 10:08am
Quoting airquest
The reason is simple, I chose these numbers because it fits to price movement. The up move is 400 pips and the time is about 360 bars. So I draw a 400x360 bars. I know this makes a rectangle and not a square. That was my question, do I have to make this range a perfect square or not ? According to Gann's rules do I have to draw a perfect square or a rectangle is ok ? That was my question, and if I read well, I think your answer is yes, I have to draw a perfect square. But then, I don't understand why JR97 chose 976 pips to 360 bars in his article....
In maths, square is a geometric shape with 4 right angles and 1:1 ratio of its vertical and horizontal side. In markets, there is no real square. It will only be a square when you have defined how big you want that vertical and horizontal 1 to be. Isn't that very simple? It is fluid. A rectangle can be a square and a square can be a rectangle because it is up to you to decide how big that 1 is 1.

There is no real true 'master' in this field of studying, even those big-named gurus got it wrong big time very often. That alone should tell you enough. Everyone is just experimenting and exploring to see what works and perhaps works better. Why feel the need to so rigidly follow what others do and say? Do you play any musical instrument to good levels or do any martial arts, or do painting? If so, you would understand that good work does not follow any rigid rules. It is fluid. Like water, to fit the environment.

And in the same vein, to answer your earlier question, a much better way to make money in the market is to truly understand support/resistance and supply/demand. Our understanding of price actions has had great leaps and bounds since the days of Gann. And for old gurus, the best is the likes of Dow, Wyckoff, and Andrews, whose ideas are open to others to see and learn and have stood the test of time. Not shrouded in any mystery.

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  • #4,897
  • Aug 11, 2012 9:06am Aug 11, 2012 9:06am
Quoting Oshawa
In maths, square is a geometric shape with 4 right angles and 1:1 ratio of its vertical and horizontal side. In markets, there is no real square. It will only be a square when you have defined how big you want that vertical and horizontal 1 to be. Isn't that very simple? It is fluid. A rectangle can be a square and a square can be a rectangle because it is up to you to decide how big that 1 is 1.

There is no real true 'master' in this field of studying, even those big-named gurus got it wrong big time very often. That alone should tell you enough....
Very clear answer. Thanks a lot !
  • #4,898
  • Aug 11, 2012 10:01am Aug 11, 2012 10:01am
i've been very impressed by Hades templates, in particular the USD natal chart data

it's extremely helpful that he labels the lines to identify the phenomenon that is being marked, i still haven't filtered through it all but so far this has been one of the better teaching resources i've seen
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  • #4,899
  • Aug 11, 2012 2:05pm Aug 11, 2012 2:05pm
i Manually studied eur/usd on excel with geocentric positions of our Solar System bodies..... If i didn't make an error while preparing, it looks that so much resistance above.... However, only Mercury holds for below 1.20..
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  • #4,900
  • Aug 11, 2012 2:24pm Aug 11, 2012 2:24pm
Quoting Almondeyed
i Manually studied eur/usd on excel with geocentric positions of our Solar System bodies..... If i didn't make an error while preparing, it looks that so much resistance above.... However, only Mercury holds for below 1.20..
Tell me with the power of ultimate astrology trading, will the perseid meteor shower affect the markets in any way, I am about to go and watch them and want some advice on what I should buy/sell on sunday eve???
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