How one becomes a bank trader? | Forex Factory

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How one becomes a bank trader?

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 5, 2012 6:33am Aug 5, 2012 6:33am
I guess it would be a good learning experience. What career path leads there? What is the exact job title, and job description at a smaller bank? I'm not from the UK or US but from Eastern Europe so Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs does not operate here - who definitely do bank trading -, only the likes of Raiffeisen and Erste.

Any bank traders here?
  • #2
  • Aug 5, 2012 12:22pm Aug 5, 2012 12:22pm
In most big banks (even the local domestic ones), there will be a treasury department. Some call it Treasury, "Global Markets" etc... This is where the interbank FX traders are. Some are specialized prop traders. some are FX sales traders, some have to do both...

Some departments are so small, the traders have to do everything, from trading FX, managing customers, managing nostro/vostro balances, making sure bank liquidity is within specs on a daily basis, trading in the money markets etc etc.

Whether you trade for a marquee global bank like GS, or for a smaller regional bank, I don't think becoming a bank trader will be a good learning experience insofar as we're talking about trading for your own account.

One example why: trading for a Bank "teaches" the bad habit of being too dependent on customer flow information to make any money instead being able to trade blind.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #3
  • Aug 5, 2012 12:48pm Aug 5, 2012 12:48pm
Most bank traders are recruited from university and work their way up through trainee programmes.

Although not so much in this current market, banks do pick up experienced traders. efinancial careers is a good place to start looking. Google it.

As Skenobi already said - You won't get much experience trading your own accounts with a bank, because essentially you'll just be transacting orders from in house/your firm's clients. You will learn lots about how the market works though.

For a real learning experience on trading your own account in a high pressure, team environment - Proprietary trading is where you want to be.

In this position, your firm will provide you with an initial capital float, a trading desk and access to all the data you could ever need.

Your job is to make as much profit as possible - and you get paid by making withdrawls from your trading account. Usually the firm will take about 30% of your profits when your new.

Prop houses recruit constantly (since most people don't last long) and don't ask for any specific experience or qualifications. The interview process is quite tough though... Like being asked to go up on stage in front of all the other applicants and be asked mental maths questions.

At least, that is how they are in London!

LD.
  • #4
  • Aug 5, 2012 4:04pm Aug 5, 2012 4:04pm
Or become successful trader and make your own hedge fund instead of wanting to play with others money (just joking) but i do believe if you live in places like uk,new york etc where the big companies have offices and you came with a good portfolio,not speaking about diplomas in economics,but 5-10 year trading background with positive results and got interview to answer how you achieved it and show your mentality you would land a job in some company might not be the forex,maybe futures or just placing an orders for others,other then that not much can be thought in college how to be a successful trader as all available info is there online already,just the thing is its world economics+psychological factors,emotions,changing markets and other stuff that no one can predict is a key how will you react when they happen,that's where leaders come out and the rest just crack.
  • #5
  • Aug 7, 2012 6:05am Aug 7, 2012 6:05am
Thanks for all your insights!
  • #6
  • Aug 7, 2012 4:23pm Aug 7, 2012 4:23pm
Skenobi,

Please tell me which study is the best to apply for a fx trader later?

only bachelor? or ba + master?
which field of study? finance, management, international business? do they care about something specific or justs that in economics?
  • #7
  • Aug 7, 2012 4:42pm Aug 7, 2012 4:42pm
Tell them Nick Leeson is your mentor and your hero.
  • #8
  • Aug 7, 2012 6:44pm Aug 7, 2012 6:44pm
Quoting Mingary
Tell them Nick Leeson is your mentor and your hero.
- Look to the left, Trade to the right - I am the system
  • #9
  • Aug 7, 2012 8:20pm Aug 7, 2012 8:20pm
Apply for a bank trading job perhaps.

http://jobs.eFinancialCareers.com.au/Trading.htm

Looking through some of these positions advertised you can get an idea of what employers are looking for.
H.D
  • #10
  • Aug 7, 2012 8:46pm Aug 7, 2012 8:46pm
Quoting MartinKeller
Skenobi,

Please tell me which study is the best to apply for a fx trader later?

only bachelor? or ba + master?
which field of study? finance, management, international business? do they care about something specific or justs that in economics?
If you just wanna be an FX trader, all you need is the intellectual capacity to do high school maths, some gumption and some luck.

But if you mean an INTERBANK FX trader, a basic degree in a numerate field of study is best. Economics is a good idea.

Basically I'm just answering your question.

If you want to know if I think working for a Bank or even having a college degree is even beneficial to one's personal development as a trader, you can ask, altho I think you can guess what my answer might be.

Good luck!
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #11
  • Aug 8, 2012 12:13am Aug 8, 2012 12:13am
Quoting bankroll
I guess it would be a good learning experience. What career path leads there? What is the exact job title, and job description at a smaller bank? I'm not from the UK or US but from Eastern Europe so Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs does not operate here - who definitely do bank trading -, only the likes of Raiffeisen and Erste.

Any bank traders here?

you only need two things to become a bank trader

The firstly: you have a reputation

The secondly ; you have a connection or relationship or relatives to enter into

salaam
  • #12
  • Aug 8, 2012 1:02pm Aug 8, 2012 1:02pm
Quoting skenobi
If you just wanna be an FX trader, all you need is the intellectual capacity to do high school maths, some gumption and some luck.

But if you mean an INTERBANK FX trader, a basic degree in a numerate field of study is best. Economics is a good idea.

Basically I'm just answering your question.

If you want to know if I think working for a Bank or even having a college degree is even beneficial to one's personal development as a trader, you can ask, altho I think you can guess what my answer might be.

Good luck!
Well, i assume you it is a lot beneficial to work for a bank for your later career as independent trader. i guess you are trading order flow and this stuff? you had all that private information when working for a bank, couldnt you just front-run sometimes?
  • #13
  • Aug 8, 2012 1:09pm Aug 8, 2012 1:09pm
Quoting MartinKeller
Well, i assume you it is a lot beneficial to work for a bank for your later career as independent trader. i guess you are trading order flow and this stuff? you had all that private information when working for a bank, couldnt you just front-run sometimes?
That is a pretty quick way to get yourself fired. When I was at a bank, I couldn't even pick investments to put in my pension. Had to buy externally managed funds.
  • #14
  • Aug 8, 2012 2:42pm Aug 8, 2012 2:42pm
Quoting bankroll
Eastern Europe.....Raiffeisen and Erste.
In my country(also in Eastern Europe) its going like this: You contact your cousins friend who knows some boss in the bank and pay him few thousands euros, and voila! you are now currency dealer.
  • #15
  • Aug 8, 2012 3:18pm Aug 8, 2012 3:18pm
Quoting LaurenceDale
That is a pretty quick way to get yourself fired. When I was at a bank, I couldn't even pick investments to put in my pension. Had to buy externally managed funds.
I thought this is legal in FX as it's an OTC market?

but at least if you cant frontrun you should be able to gain enough experience as bank trader to later know how to make a lot of $ for your own account, right?
  • #16
  • Edited 8:15pm Aug 8, 2012 6:58pm | Edited 8:15pm
Quoting MartinKeller
Well, i assume you it is a lot beneficial to work for a bank for your later career as independent trader. i guess you are trading order flow and this stuff? you had all that private information when working for a bank, couldnt you just front-run sometimes?
It's only beneficial insofar as now I know that interbank tactics are not suitable for retail traders; that trading on order flow is not "real trading"; and that economic data is mostly bullsh!t.

And "front-running" is one of those bad habits I mentioned that interbank traders do often that negates their ability to trade blind if/when they decide to trade their own accounts (assuming they don't burn out first).

Quoting MartinKeller
I thought this is legal in FX as it's an OTC market?

but at least if you cant frontrun you should be able to gain enough experience as bank trader to later know how to make a lot of $ for your own account, right?
I won't say front-running is legal in FX. Better to say it's not ILLEGAL i.e. there are no rules governing such things in FX, only internal rules. At least where I come from, this was the case.

As for making money from front running, these days you can only do that successfully if you're trading exotic currencies in the country of origin. I think you used to be able to do that with G3 pairs a long time ago but it's no longer as easy as you may have seen it done on TV or in the movies. LOL

At least I had the sense not to believe whatever my counterparties tell me over PM all the time, and I rarely ever front-run; I usually let my juniors on the trading floor do that.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #17
  • Aug 9, 2012 4:36am Aug 9, 2012 4:36am
Thanks for sharing your experience

maybe its better then to get a job at a hedge fund
  • #18
  • Last Post: Sep 18, 2012 7:07pm Sep 18, 2012 7:07pm
On a slightly related note, this story is a classic example why Banks don't allow their traders to trade their own accounts.

Bank traders get so caught up in their own personal losses, that they lose sight of the ball.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
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