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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

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  • Post #981
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  • May 28, 2012 5:14am May 28, 2012 5:14am
  •  moodybot
  • Joined May 2010 | Status: Straight line Fest | 2,846 Posts
Quoting pipmutt
Disliked
Finally!

Ok not so revolutionary and not as bad as I thought, at least you're adding to winners as well, and using a stop loss. The whole thing isn't actually a million miles away from more traditional methods of trade and risk management albeit slightly convoluted and dare I say it less productive!




Right, so now it's only a matter of how successful someone aspires to be, some people are happy for a while just not to be losing any more. Who knows, six or twelve months on from here once that novelty has worn off you'll tighten the whole...
Ignored

Hi Pipmutt, thanks for the reply earlier although now the post has been removed for some reason, I can relate exactly to what you were saying.

You mention that most still have a stoploss of some description or other.

I use a pending order ( again its been done to death) however I do use a stoploss but only for money management calculations, but not for closing a trade.

If my method gives me the signal to trade I use a money management spreadsheet to work out lot size.

Nothing new in that, however the s/l figure has to be inputted into the calculator to get the lotsize, I place a pending order though not a s/l after taking the trade.

If another trade on a fresh pair comes in with the first trade still running, for lotsize calculation I input the first trade into my spreadsheet as though it was a loss.

The spreadsheet then number crunch's a lower lotsize so reducing the risk for the new trade whilst allowing the original to run.

If trade 1 then hits T/P I can choose to add to the 2nd trade at a suitable position or place normal lot size for trade 3 and so on.

M.
 
 
  • Post #982
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  • May 28, 2012 5:31am May 28, 2012 5:31am
  •  pipmutt
  • Joined Apr 2008 | Status: Parsimony Rulez! | 3,548 Posts
Quoting moodybot
Disliked

Hi Pipmutt, thanks for the reply earlier although now the post has been removed for some reason, I can relate exactly to what you were saying.
Ignored
Hey M

Yes I edited it and then it disappeared, lol, the forum's been doing some weird shit lately or maybe it's just me.....


Quoting moodybot
Disliked

You mention that most still have a stoploss of some description or other.

I use a pending order ( again its been done to death) however I do use a stoploss but only for money management calculations, but not for closing a trade.
Ignored
Me too, same odds really as they all turn into market orders at the time of execution, I suspect SL and TP attached to a trade ticket is a platform feature for simplicity and user friendliness (or for the conspiracy theorists among us perhaps there's something more sinister behind it! ).


Quoting moodybot
Disliked

If my method gives me the signal to trade I use a money management spreadsheet to work out lot size.......
Ignored
Excellent and it sounds very versatile, a useful tool to have.
 
 
  • Post #983
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  • Jun 8, 2012 7:39am Jun 8, 2012 7:39am
  •  Eur Usd
  • | Joined Jun 2012 | Status: trade forex like a sniper | 2,419 Posts
Hi

This system won't work.
I tried it on Oanda's Demo acc. On American Oanda there is no leverage on Gold and Silver, therefore I made 5k demo acc just for Silver on 1:1.
Silver was around 32$ then. Quite quick I made 300 Pounds on it, and then price went down. As I was sure nothing will happen on 1:1 I was waiting till the price will go up, and sooner or later it has to. Recently I took a look at this account: of 5k invested on beginning I had 4,7k, I checked what happened AND THERE WAS MARIGIN CLOSEOUT.
Another thing: imagine yourself that you invested in gold at its peak around 1950 per oz. How long will it take to get to that level again? maybe a week, maybe 10 years.
So the system may work few times and then will eventually fail.
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
 
 
  • Post #984
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  • Jun 8, 2012 10:32am Jun 8, 2012 10:32am
  •  forextraderx
  • Joined May 2012 | Status: Member | 776 Posts
Quoting Eur Usd
Disliked
Hi

This system won't work.
I tried it on Oanda's Demo acc. On American Oanda there is no leverage on Gold and Silver, therefore I made 5k demo acc just for Silver on 1:1.
Silver was around 32$ then. Quite quick I made 300 Pounds on it, and then price went down. As I was sure nothing will happen on 1:1 I was waiting till the price will go up, and sooner or later it has to. Recently I took a look at this account: of 5k invested on beginning I had 4,7k, I checked what happened AND THERE WAS MARIGIN CLOSEOUT.
Another thing: imagine yourself that...
Ignored
"system"... man, I know it works for some... but to me, that's a 4 letter word. "method" I find is better. I know more than a few full time successful traders that have a trading "method"...but I hardly know of any with a successful "system"... maybe I just need to get out more tho.

X
 
 
  • Post #985
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  • Jun 8, 2012 11:06pm Jun 8, 2012 11:06pm
  •  artod
  • | Joined Dec 2009 | Status: Member | 6 Posts
Quoting Eur Usd
Disliked
Hi

This system won't work.
I tried it on Oanda's Demo acc. On American Oanda there is no leverage on Gold and Silver, therefore I made 5k demo acc just for Silver on 1:1.
Silver was around 32$ then. Quite quick I made 300 Pounds on it, and then price went down. As I was sure nothing will happen on 1:1 I was waiting till the price will go up, and sooner or later it has to. Recently I took a look at this account: of 5k invested on beginning I had 4,7k, I checked what happened AND THERE WAS MARIGIN CLOSEOUT.
Another thing: imagine yourself...
Ignored
Actually you missunderstoond the "system", for me no SL strategy only works if you open another position while waiting for the 1st position reach it's TP.
I often open many position in same direction or opposite direction based on the result of the first position, and this strategy really works, the only thing that you really need to watch out is leverage u use to open position. I recommend 1:1 for each position u open.
 
 
  • Post #986
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  • Jul 8, 2012 11:53am Jul 8, 2012 11:53am
  •  60minuteman
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Feb 2012 | 3,770 Posts
http://traderspodcast.com/episode59/
tradewith60
 
 
  • Post #987
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  • Jul 19, 2012 2:42am Jul 19, 2012 2:42am
  •  Nacho
  • | Joined Jun 2011 | Status: Member | 95 Posts
Successfully closed my last position which was floating in the loss - it took me 2 months to close it but eventually i ended in profit. I was long on AUDUSD at 1.0350 2months ago and it went all the way down to 0.96, which is a pretty big floating loss in terms of pips, but due to my tiny positions it was sustainable for me in terms of money and now that aussie is on the rise again i was able to cash in green pips on this trade + a good load of positive rollover.
 
 
  • Post #988
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  • Jul 19, 2012 5:10am Jul 19, 2012 5:10am
  •  Darren Teo
  • | Joined Aug 2010 | Status: Member | 72 Posts
Quoting Nacho
Disliked
Successfully closed my last position which was floating in the loss - it took me 2 months to close it but eventually i ended in profit. I was long on AUDUSD at 1.0350 2months ago and it went all the way down to 0.96, which is a pretty big floating loss in terms of pips, but due to my tiny positions it was sustainable for me in terms of money and now that aussie is on the rise again i was able to cash in green pips on this trade + a good load of positive rollover.
Ignored
Good job at staying patient, Nacho!
 
 
  • Post #989
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  • Nov 10, 2012 6:40am Nov 10, 2012 6:40am
  •  roughtrader
  • Joined Jan 2011 | Status: Senior Trader | 1,475 Posts
mental stops can be just as good, I assume you are reversing the trade or close a buy position if it goes under the ma?
I noticed you didn't post for a while, is your strategy still working for you or did you stop it?
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
 
 
  • Post #990
  • Quote
  • Nov 17, 2012 10:52am Nov 17, 2012 10:52am
  •  lyondegreat
  • | Joined Mar 2011 | Status: Titan | 80 Posts
Hi,nacho
Is ur strategy still working out? I've been offline 4 awhile and i havent been up-to-date with ur thread so hows the strategy going? Making positive pips?
 
 
  • Post #991
  • Quote
  • Apr 10, 2013 10:26am Apr 10, 2013 10:26am
  •  superbandam3
  • | Joined Apr 2008 | Status: Member | 47 Posts
I had read this thread a few times and the first 20 - 30 pages..i had also read previous 'dead' threads about trading using no Sl some having success some do not. Some of these traders baffled me about their methodology which they gave some clues about their method but i constantly failed to reach any conclusions about it. As i tested it demo since 2009 you will have several weeks or months of winning after that you will get the big loss. Mine was such it was big loss that it eliminated most of the profit. I also considered other of using no sl will get you wiped out.
So i changed gears and i switch to having a good Risk : reward Ratio 1:2 minimum. I had gained some money on the demo then here comes the sideways market. 10 consecutive losing streak wasnt uncommon. I questioned myself , how do i regained this losses. I didnt recover the losses obviously. Then i tested FA analysis, complex macro analysis and ended up confused. Then tested many TA methods some winning some losing...but always ended up -ve in the end. But i will not learn anything if i had profits all the time. I like loosing since i learned a lot more than winning. I also learned a lot myself. Then i read somewhere that trading must suit your personality. Im a horrible trader everytime i trade it will shoot for the SL no matter playing with fading the SR or playing breakout.
In the meantime i heard more success stories from the No sl players and the SL player both can be profitable, but why i couldnt get there? Something is definitely wrong. I remember on another demo account i was heavy on long EURUSD and then there was a huge long term DT i shorted more ,ended in -ve overall. I sought to replicate that.
I always tried to incorporate SL into my trading but always ended wrong ,either it is too small you get stopped too often < 50 or too gigantic of SL > 200. I realised i need a healthy balance no matter what method i used. It is suprising in this forum there were so few people talking about proper SL. I searched for SL and ADR indicator and it took a while to find it. The best was ADR since it will notify me about the current range . To me its important to not get stopped out prematurely and get stopped when the trend really changed to i could prevent further losses. I liked to overtrade , i dunno why. I dislike getting stopped out often, hated it when the price when to your favor after stopping you out. I also hated big lossestoo. A trader also said that if you have 20 -30 pip SL you will get killed as your trade need room to breathe. I wonder how people with 1:3 or even 1:10 make their trades without stopped out frequently. I also read about stop hunting which maybe is bread & butter for some MM. i know they wont hunt small fish like us but what is odds that your sl is near or the same of people that MM is hunting? Even when EURUSD is trending they will bound to be fluctuations above 50 pips before moving with the trend.
So i kicked all the FA / TA and started again with simple rules, buy when up sell when down. I used some winning traders SS to guide how they trade then traded on demo based on it. Added some MA to see trend direction on H4 , and adding to winners . I had a big SL for every trade based on ADR, If the daily range is 100 i put my SL even bigger like 150 or 200. So my tp for every trade is 30 or 40 based on ADR. Its like a grid...when the sideway market showed up i get both buy and sells top and down onEURUSD. Its feels weird that the tp got taken out when the sideways market is prolonged since it go up then down again. I also traded on 15 min for daily consumption or counter trend. But the H4 trade is main driver. All trades 0.01 lot no exception. Then the equity when up , i dont take note of the balance.Hmm must be doing some thing right. When the trend came it was booking in profits faster so i dont have many trades open. The worst was when i have 10 trades open but few of these is stupids trades that didnt follow the method. Still the equity when up.Sure the Sl is hit one or two but the equity is up. I thought this wont last long then traded another method which eats up the account. The account statement looks like garbage /mess i wont post it here. Even i got a headache looking at it so its hard to analyse previos trades.
Few weeks ago i tradedusing the method again and the equity is slowly coming up.Now with the current strong trend the account is going up faster.
The risk reward is horrible On average Risk 5 : Reward 1 . I had seen some ppl trading successfully using risk:reward 3:1 but they are good at cherry picking trades. The know somuchabout the market structure ,sentiment,trends, cycle and the overall market. SOme even using orderflow. I had headaches studying all of that, i like simplicity. If you had to consider 10 -30 factor before making a trade im out of there. Complicated analysis is killing the brain. SOme even say KISS. I will try to make it simpler gradually. I will also try to have smaller SL so my R:R is not that bad but if this produce streaks of Sl i will stick with those gigantic SL. The bad thing is i have to monitor it constantly ,if the market moves then guaranteed i have some orders up or down.If this is the price to pay for profitibilty then so be it,since i enjoy trading.. LOL. If i have some break or holiday i will make sure that i have SL so i wont blow everything when im not around.
Now i knew there will be 'holes' in this strategy but this is what im looking for in FF ,hole finding then improving.
The pros : 1)Surviving during sideway market even with little profit
2) Thriving when strongly trending
3) Less SL hits
4) You do have SL even when hedging even when your gridding after 20 pips
5) H4 for long term and 15min for short term, one slow and steady, another to satisfy the greed in me
6) Some times the 15min helped a lot during sideways since the TP is hit frequently bringing the equity up faster
The cons: 1) maybe there is no edge after all?
2) Need some babysitting especially closing everything when equity is up when satisfied
3) Horrible R:R is this good or bad?
4) Need to adjust grid spacing depends on market
5) Pants Shittan when power/ internet goes down
6) Sleep irregulan
7) Stress inducan (even in demo , LOL)
8) Market gappan, slippan, broker pissan
Any holes? TQ
Also thanks for many traders on FF since they give you some information 'gold' in snippet if they didnt comment here i wouldnt have even conjure this pitiful method
PS . I also like to sabotage my own demo account to see if i can bring the account up again. I like to purposely leave a bad trade open...no wonder the account never reached +ve LOL
 
 
  • Post #992
  • Quote
  • Apr 18, 2013 8:01am Apr 18, 2013 8:01am
  •  kittyw
  • | Joined Apr 2013 | Status: Junior Member | 1 Post
Hi Nacho,

What I really am very very interested to know is, where can on open an unleveraged forex account with OK spread (like max. 30-40pips per trade and not a few hundred pips)??? Thank you so much for a tip.

Best regards,
Kitty
 
 
  • Post #993
  • Quote
  • Feb 26, 2014 5:47am Feb 26, 2014 5:47am
  •  pullice
  • | Joined Sep 2009 | Status: Member | 60 Posts
Hey Nacho, I was wondering if you still trading this system
 
 
  • Post #994
  • Quote
  • Sep 24, 2017 3:18am Sep 24, 2017 3:18am
  •  cyguy
  • | Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Crazy prospector | 378 Posts
SLs are for suckers! long live the hedge! haha
 
 
  • Post #995
  • Quote
  • Dec 3, 2017 6:13am Dec 3, 2017 6:13am
  •  bmcgowra
  • | Joined Apr 2014 | Status: Member | 270 Posts
Quoting cyguy
Disliked
SLs are for suckers! long live the hedge! haha
Ignored
Lot of suckers here then. How do you hedge exactly? When to enter and exit the hedge position?
 
 
  • Post #996
  • Quote
  • Nov 13, 2018 2:01am Nov 13, 2018 2:01am
  •  T4Trade
  • Joined Sep 2017 | Status: Trend Following,Price Action,Grid | 2,090 Posts
Quoting rubber_ducky
Disliked
Hey Nacho, I like that you're going for the low risk strategy. I'm trying every day for the same thing. If you're open to the possibility of opening an order with 0.02 lots you could have your TakeProfit (15 points) for 50% of your order (0.01 lots), and have the other 50% do a Trailing Stop (15 points) or a Step-Stop. That way you get the initial profit you're system would produce, and still get to trail additional profits will smaller risk (since you already have your profit from your TakeProfit). I use the attached indicator for doing this automatically....
Ignored
can someone explain how to use this properly?
 
 
  • Post #997
  • Quote
  • Aug 1, 2020 2:31pm Aug 1, 2020 2:31pm
  •  T4Trade
  • Joined Sep 2017 | Status: Trend Following,Price Action,Grid | 2,090 Posts
Please suggest what to do in this situation? how to close hedged position without accumulation of DD as price will return after reversal or we dont know even price will return or not? what could have been done to avoid this situation?

Margin level: 1300% and equity is 150 Balance is 2270$ and PNL is -2100$
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1
  • Post #998
  • Quote
  • Edited 3:10pm Aug 1, 2020 2:47pm | Edited 3:10pm
  •  MichaelSch
  • Joined Dec 2015 | Status: Member | 1,927 Posts | Online Now
Quoting T4Trade
Disliked
Please suggest what to do in this situation? how to close hedged position without accumulation of DD as price will return after reversal or we dont know even price will return or not? what could have been done to avoid this situation? Margin level: 1300% and equity is 150 Balance is 2270$ and PNL is -2100$ {image}
Ignored
What is this? Back I have had the same and I was long long long time in the pair. I reduced it by closing one long and one short, if both are in profit. Why you have no short in the upper chart? Before margin call come you must have a balance of short and long trades. Heavy, hope you came out and do never again such a thing.

Why you increased size?

If you focus the double profit and one risk, you can have under 50 % hit rate and you are in profit. Let trades running and bad trades loosing. That is true self destruction and your chart is a warning, if you can not handle this, so forget it.

Learn to read a chart naked, focus on money management and prepare your personality to live with loosing trades. Sorry.

Search now for short trades, so you have no in the near. If you have done it, hope you done it with a system, reduce the short and one long if both in profit and if it make sense for the short. Bring the maximum out of the short now.
Market is more simple as you think.
 
 
  • Post #999
  • Quote
  • Aug 1, 2020 4:54pm Aug 1, 2020 4:54pm
  •  T4Trade
  • Joined Sep 2017 | Status: Trend Following,Price Action,Grid | 2,090 Posts
i have same number of buys and sells,so the account is locked,i dont know what to do next.
 
 
  • Post #1,000
  • Quote
  • Aug 1, 2020 6:35pm Aug 1, 2020 6:35pm
  •  T4Trade
  • Joined Sep 2017 | Status: Trend Following,Price Action,Grid | 2,090 Posts
i have same number of buys and sells,so the account is locked,i dont know what to do next.
 
 
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