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Stop Hunting

  • Post #81
  • Quote
  • Edited 3:07am May 12, 2006 2:22am | Edited 3:07am
Attached M5 and M1 Chart.
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Quoting mrmikal
Stock, you know what I really want to see is someone's chart from the same broker. If they manipulate a SINGLE feed, this would be fraud. Regulated or not, they shouldn't be able to manipulate a SINGLE person's feed...this would be highly prejudicial (I mean, think about it...if you're an a$$ to a customer service rep of your broker over chat, they can trigger an artificial drop in price on your feed and stop you out)...they could also prejudice their friends and give them better prices to take out their friend's profit from their other clients...this EXTREMELY disturbing...I think we need to get a price feed from someone of the same BROKER to make sure they didn't manipulate the price for your friend...

just knowing that they could do that (manipulate a single person's feed) is REALLY scary...I mean, we're not talking 1 or 2 pips difference, man...your friend's stop was 20 pips further away...and just because there was volatility from FOMC doesn't explain a 20 pip move that NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE!!!! especially their own clients.

You really need to help us out here...because this would be grounds for a class action suit.
I work on pricing systems, and while the company I work for does NOT engage in this practise, there is no technical reason why a broker couldn't manipulate prices sent to clients on a client-by-client basis...

Unfortunately, I don't believe there is any regulation to stop rogue brokers from doing so either (yet.)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7644/5minfx3hd.jpg


Think about this for a sec... In the retail forex market, market makers are the counter party to EVERY SINGLE TRADE you make, this is a fact. So...with that said, where do market makers get their money from?...you and me. This thead is cold hard proof. Does this mean that the retail trader cant make any money trading in this black.. ( read unregulated ) ...market?

Some people say that trading forex is nothing but gambeling... The more i find out about the retail forex market, the more i start to think that gambeling... is a much safer investment... ( at least the card dealer cant reach across the table and take away all of your chips when you have a royal flush...which is the equivilent of what happened to your friend who lost $50k...)

To be honest...i really dont care to know which broker your friend lost his money with because we all know that ALL retail brokers do it. You didnt really think they could make a profit on the crappy spread alone did you?..even if they did only make money on the sperad...their the COUNTER PARTY to EVERYONES trade....so when the traders make money.....they LOSE money... What do they do when there are more traders making money than losing money?....simple....turn the winning traders into losing traders by manipulating their feed!!@ ( insirt evil laughter!!!). To be honest this whole forex thing is making me sick to my stomach ( literally ), but the worst part about it for me is that i had such high hopes of being succesfull and financially independant but i guess the only real successes in this market are the god@mn bucket shops . I usually dont spend my time postint ( as you can tell from my post cont) and hardly ever read posts on forex forums. But when I saw this thread i just had to help out in any way i could.

I really REALLY hope that your friend at LEAST gets his money back.

Good luck to you all.

sorry for going off topic.

......we now return you to your regularly scheduled program...
Quoting ShaderZ
..even if they did only make money on the sperad...their the COUNTER PARTY to EVERYONES trade....so when the traders make money.....they LOSE money... What do they do when there are more traders making money than losing money?....simple....turn the winning traders into losing traders by manipulating their feed!!
not true! for sure the smart brokers will hedge positions if their traders didnt zeroed a position (10 guys going short, 10 guys going long). They can make a FORTUNE with the spread without taking any risks.

About feeding different data to different costumers, some brokers say they dont do this. so just watch what you are signing.
UPDATE.

Well, here's what I have so far.

1. I have not been able to find a single other broker that corroborates this errant price. I've checked live feeds for FXCM, InterbankFX, and GFTForex. I'm still looking for any other folks to post their feed for the day. Please help.

2. I've also checked the feed for the SAME broker using a different person's live account. The feeds do not match! The implication here is that this broker manipulated the feed for a single, or several, customers.

3. I've contacted the President and CEO of the company, as well as the COO. The President and CEO indicated that he is not involved in daily operations, and passed me to the COO. The COO indicated that they have a feed from FXCM which shows the same price (which I have since proven him wrong.)

Given the sensitive nature of all this, and for possible legal reasons, I still cannot reveal the name of the broker until I know it's safe from a legal standpoint to do so. So, don't even ask.

The point is, not only can brokers and banks stop hunt, they can do it on a client by client basis. I suspect my friend was targeted because of the large lot size. Perhaps we need another thread from some more experienced brokers to discuss trading options for large account holders.
  • Post #86
  • Quote
  • Edited 9:25am May 12, 2006 9:18am | Edited 9:25am
Stockwet,

Just Go for the kill man, just go....don't let these crooks off the hook...they are fraudsters and god knows how many people they have cheated over the years..just do it man...you got a hardcore proof...just don't wait for the datas to come by...its already enough in court to nail these guys for ever.

It would be a stern warning to all other brokers to stay away from "Stop Hunting"....these COO and CEO's are just names for these people to operate their crooked ways, they are just fraudsters and just don't believe what the COO or CEO says they all know whats going on in their company..thats how they see their balence sheet.

Its time for action not for explanation dude...Just go and hang these guys...its just simply intolarable...

Good Luck !!
Quoting stockwet
The point is, not only can brokers and banks stop hunt, they can do it on a client by client basis. I suspect my friend was targeted because of the large lot size. Perhaps we need another thread from some more experienced brokers to discuss trading options for large account holders.
I didn't know this was possible, I always thought computerprograms did the work for brokers, so it was nearly impossible to do this kind of things. But not on a client by client basis.

If it is true, I would support some legal action, not only for this firm, but also as a warning for other firms. So they know that there are enough clients who not only detect these things, but also can take legal action.

If you need some support, ask.
Legal reasons????? What legal reasons could you not reveal the broker?????

In any event, you definitely have grounds for fraud...any judge would be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt IF you can prove that you have 2 feeds from the same broker. It's discrimination...and that is 100% completely illegal. Guys, the forex market IS unregulated but make no bones about it, they STILL HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES...of course, I just made an assumption that you are dealing with a broker here in the states. If what you're saying is true, then it's possible for any average joe to open up a store called "discriminator's r us" and give everyone different pricing based on whatever the hell they feel like. The feds would be jumping on that in a heartbeat. I'm sure it's technically possible for them manipulate the price feeds per client, but there is no way this is legal. And you DEFINITELY can take them to court on this. Consumer advocacy groups would help you.

Seriously, though...I don't understand what possible US legal reason you could have to protect us against these guys unless you've fabricated the whole thing, at which point you'd be guilty of slander. Is that what we should read into this? I mean, honestly...people post negative reviews of things all the time, and for once, this sounds like probably the most CLEAR CUT negative situation to have. A broker who manipulates values on a per client basis. At this point, you have a lot of people scared to death and are hurting legitimate, legal brokers with this information. Without giving us the guilty party, I'm sure people are just staying away from FXCM...which I suppose you're recommending at this point.

And incidentally, as popular as this board is, there is no legal recourse for just mentioning who you're broker is.

Any lawyers in the house to give this guy some info to help us?
Quoting mrmikal
Legal reasons????? What legal reasons could you not reveal the broker?????

In any event, you definitely have grounds for fraud...any judge would be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt IF you can prove that you have 2 feeds from the same broker. It's discrimination...and that is 100% completely illegal. Guys, the forex market IS unregulated but make no bones about it, they STILL HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES...of course, I just made an assumption that you are dealing with a broker here in the states. If what you're saying is true, then it's possible for any average joe to open up a store called "discriminator's r us" and give everyone different pricing based on whatever the hell they feel like. The feds would be jumping on that in a heartbeat. I'm sure it's technically possible for them manipulate the price feeds per client, but there is no way this is legal. And you DEFINITELY can take them to court on this. Consumer advocacy groups would help you.

Seriously, though...I don't understand what possible US legal reason you could have to protect us against these guys unless you've fabricated the whole thing, at which point you'd be guilty of slander. Is that what we should read into this? I mean, honestly...people post negative reviews of things all the time, and for once, this sounds like probably the most CLEAR CUT negative situation to have. A broker who manipulates values on a per client basis. At this point, you have a lot of people scared to death and are hurting legitimate, legal brokers with this information. Without giving us the guilty party, I'm sure people are just staying away from FXCM...which I suppose you're recommending at this point.

And incidentally, as popular as this board is, there is no legal recourse for just mentioning who you're broker is.

Any lawyers in the house to give this guy some info to help us?
Mr. Mikal,

I'll say this clearly. Stop your ranting. It's my choice whether or not I want to reveal the broker. It's my friend's legal butt on the line, not yours. You can check my reputation on StrategyBuilderFX and MoneyTec. I'm a respected poster. Quit your ridiculous accusations. Your being selfish and rude. Stay with your own broker and you'll be just fine.

stockwet
  • Post #90
  • Quote
  • Edited 12:27pm May 12, 2006 10:22am | Edited 12:27pm
This is daylight robbery. Trading is challenging enough without all this garbage of stop hunting.

I hope my EURUSD 5min chart (05/10/06 12 pm - 05/10/06 5pm EST) from FX Solutions is useful.
Attached Image
KISS
Quoting stockwet
Mr. Mikal,

I'll say this clearly. Stop your ranting. It's my choice whether or not I want to reveal the broker. It's my friend's legal butt on the line, not yours. You can check my reputation on StrategyBuilderFX and MoneyTec. I'm a respected poster. Quit your ridiculous accusations. Your being selfish and rude. Stay with your own broker and you'll be just fine.

stockwet
LOL...selfish and rude.

Look, I'm sorry to give you hard time, but seriously, you've shaken the very core, my friend. Believe me, I have respect for you, it's not that, but it just seems a little odd. That's all.

You're right, you have every right to keep the info to yourself. But to be fair, you're also asking for OUR help. From what you've said, your friend has every legal right in the world to pursue this, and you have a moral obligation to help him knowing that there is fraud going on (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt). I realize your friend's "legal butt" (another funny one) is on the line, but we're here to help each other and I think if you're requesting our help, we sorta have a right to know what it is exactly we're doing.

Like I said, if what you are saying is true (single client manipulation), this is enough to effectively halt trading by many users who read this board. It only feeds the paranoia.

Obviously you're going to do what you're going to do, but I really wish you would view this from our point of view (the ones that don't have the info). Especially since you need our help so much. It would seem only fair.

You're telling me to stick with my broker, but how do I know my broker isn't your friend's broker? This is information I would really like to know.
Actually, review this thread. You are the only one paranoid. And, YOU continue to feed the paranoia with baseless accusations and ignorant rantings. If you want to help, sit back, be patient, get me some more feeds. What you think a legal case is is irrelevant to me. Further, the last thing I want to do is associate a thread which vehemently attacks a specific broker to that specific broker. If it turns out that this broker has indeed acted in good faith, then, yes, this thread could be classified as slander and as the originator of the thread, I could potentially be liable.

So, as I said, stop asking who the broker is. If you would like to personally indemnify me against any and all legal action that this broker could take, then have your attorney contact me with an indemnification agreement, then, I will reveal the broker to you and YOU can tell everyone who it is. Otherwise, get off my back on this issue.
mrmikal,

Absolutely Spot on dude...

You are right...we are here to help you and in return to get more pumped up and get involved in a higher leval, it would have being good if you could have told who the broker is.....

I haven't traded till now after your posting, waiting for some news to happen on this one.

All i being doing whole day was going after web sites and looking at the charts and cross checking it

Its not at all selfish or rude as you pointed out...its just the way..which are making us impatient as we are equally worried and as you said your friends butt is on the line....but god forbid....we actually don't know how many of our butts already got soaked in stop hunting...
Alright, I have to step in here...

Lets take the conversation down a notch. No more personal accusations and name calling or I will be forced to close this thread.

Scott
Stock-y, whoa, bro...calm down...I sent you a nice PM.

I suppose it could be the case that I'm the only paranoid one. I think I've earned that right after 4 years in the forex market.

:-)

I'm off your back on this one, stock-y, my man.

Sorry Scott, didn't mean to cause an uproar.
  • Post #96
  • Quote
  • Edited 1:57pm May 12, 2006 1:52pm | Edited 1:57pm
I got stopped out of a similar sell order on the FOMC report. I, too, could not find a candle to verify how that occurred. I put a 15 pip stop loss on the sell order. I am a noob, but I interpreted the trade as an error on my part. The FOMC report sparked a very volatile response.

In summary, I put a stop loss within 15 pips of an explosion. I suppose I deserved to be killed when the bomb went off. I will not repeat the same error.
I feel for your friend, but if his broker does admit to an error and corrects his account.... please tell us all who that broker is, cuz that does not happen in my universe.
Peace
ps-i don't really care who the broker is..... it was sort of a rhetorical question. so do not answer that.
I found a link that gives helpful advice about stop placing and stop-hunting

http://www.fx-dealer.com/articles/stophunting.asp
Quoting ShaderZ
I found a link that gives helpful advice about stop placing and stop-hunting

http://www.fx-dealer.com/articles/stophunting.asp
Great info, thanks.

Hey, Mudd, you said you trade without stop-losses from time to time...I'm wondering if you do this to avoid getting stop hunted??

Just curious. I personally have started programming my stop loss on my own client machine that triggers only an e-mail at a given price. Once the price approaches the area, I make a decision based on general sentiment on whether or not to close a position.

My trades are generally far away from news releases and ALWAYS in the direction of the primary trend. I've lost a few pips here and there by doing this, but in general my stress level has been reduced by having the control of the stop loss rather than giving that control to my brokers. I do have to say, there have been times when I was merely internal trading (not really trading, but psychologically taking out a position in my head and following the "what would I do in this case" scenario...and it would seem that my INTERNAL stop would sometimes get hit to the pip...almost as if the brokers were reading my mind...freaked me out, but I soon learned that it was because my stops were usually in common areas of support/resistance which were TARGETS for getting hunted (as noted by the article).

There is a bit of danger in holding your stops internally. In order for me to feel safe doing this, I have 3 levels safety. First, my stop zone is triggered WAY early as to notify me that I need to start watching the chart. Secondly, I have 3 back-up internet connections (with 2 of them simultaneously live...a 3rd I can dail into [EvDO]). Lastly, I have my phone programmed to speed dial the trade desks of the various brokers. If I notice for a single instance that I'm having issues with any or all of my connections, I can place a stop loss via phone. Obviously, this precludes me to a certain type of trade (namely having to avoid extremely volatile news...like news that COULD produce 100 pips whipsaws).
  • Post #99
  • Quote
  • Edited 6:13pm May 12, 2006 6:08pm | Edited 6:13pm
Quoting stockwet
If you want to help, sit back, be patient, get me some more feeds.
OK here's another data feed the candle in question I have a high of 12811
this is in a purchased software package, with a signal feed coming from Esignals. I've always found this data service quite reliable.

As they are not a broker and simply a data provider.

For some reason, I am not able to attach a file??
A truly wise man, always has more questions than answers.
Quoting stockwet
I suspect my friend was targeted because of the large lot size. Perhaps we need another thread from some more experienced brokers to discuss trading options for large account holders.
Here's an option if you have enough money to sling a hundred lots on a news trade.

A. Go to the Chicago Mercantile Exchange

B. Become a member

C. Trade their currency futures on globex

The CME is governed by the CFTC, which strictly prohibits price fudging or manipulation. If they screw your feed the CFTC would bend them over. I'm sure there are bigger traders than your friend on globex, he should be ok.
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