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1:1 Risk Reward Ratio - Why it just makes sense

  • #81
  • Jun 9, 2012 3:31am Jun 9, 2012 3:31am
Quoting pipmutt
Well quite obviously back when I thought it was polite to reply to 4extool!

Nice, and so politely put!

You're right of course, how could anyone possibly fear your wrath! Thanks, I feel so much more relaxed now.....
You're welcome once again.

What I really think is, that anyone reading this thread is sick and tired of both of us.

So if you believe that you're the hero then just carry on with that belief.

When I first started posting you called me (among other things) a troll. Since that time, how many times have you been accused of that? How many times have you "hijacked" a thread?

a. To wander about; ramble. That's one definition of a troll and it suits you perfectly.

In other words

YOU AIN'T SHIT
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #82
  • Jun 9, 2012 3:45am Jun 9, 2012 3:45am
Quoting Slim Buffett

Now you're just sounding like a parrot.

LOL !!! That would be a first... when you were concerned about being polite.

LIAR !!!

To wander about; ramble. That's one definition of a troll and it suits you perfectly.

In other words

YOU AIN'T SHIT
Unable to sustain a perfectly reasonable discussion and support your opinions and views with reason and logic you resort to slinging personal insults. Learning to recognise one's limitations and accept defeat gracefully is obviously not easy for some people.....not good for someone aspiring to be a trader.
  • #83
  • Jun 9, 2012 3:53am Jun 9, 2012 3:53am
Quoting pipmutt
I agree, and with darko2010's post above. Why have these rigid R:R ratios, just remain flexible and exploit the market for what it offers rather than some arbitrary number the trader decided he wants/needs.

Invariably exposure gets adjusted up/down as the market dictates and the trade develops anyway.....

Cant find myself agreeing with you to often Pipmutt, life would get to predictable, however your quote above is the best post on here.

M.
  • #84
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:00am Jun 9, 2012 4:00am
Quoting pipmutt
Unable to sustain a perfectly reasonable discussion and support your opinions and views with reason and logic you resort to slinging personal insults. Learning to recognise one's limitations and accept defeat gracefully is obviously not easy for some people.....not good for someone aspiring to be a trader.
Again, perfectly predictable. You need only to look back at your own posts to find the truth. Obvious to anyone.

And I gracefully accept the fact that you still ain't shit.

Please, recall your own posts and you'll see that's pretty mild.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #85
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:15am Jun 9, 2012 4:15am
Quoting moodybot

Cant find myself agreeing with you to often Pipmutt, life would get to predictable, however your quote above is the best post on here.

M.
Cheers, but I'm not sure earned! Mostly I was agreeing with some of the other excellent points that had already been made.

I welcome disagreement with my opinions as long as it's sensible discussion, it either strengthens and justifies my view or causes me to reconsider and look at alternatives, it can be extremely useful to have outside scrutiny and constructive criticism.
  • #86
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:15am Jun 9, 2012 4:15am
ok pipmutt, I just wanted to understand it clearly. I don't think it would be strange for you to make suggestions to someone who is, according to you, wasting potential, in other words; leaving pips on the table.

I'll be the first to admit that this could be a revelation for some people. But would you agree with me that to go after that extra potential, someone people could be forced to step out of their comfort zone and with that do more harm than good?

It happened to me and I can say that; it's not only where you want to go, but it's also how you want to get there. I opt for a stress free way of ( poker in my case) trading and go for those little profits that accumulate to something over time.

Most of us are discussing on totally different levels and it's extra hard for me because I seem to be the only one who is not a profitable trader, yet. But that's not why I'm in this thread. I'm really looking for some reinforcements of my ideas or new ideas that might help me progress.

About you two guys having it out...I hope you can find some way and agree to disagree :-) I had something similar earlier this thread and it's just not fun.
It's my price or no price at all!
  • #87
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:24am Jun 9, 2012 4:24am
Quoting pipmutt

I welcome disagreement with my opinions as long as it's sensible discussion, it either strengthens and justifies my view or causes me to reconsider and look at alternatives, it can be extremely useful to have outside scrutiny and constructive criticism.
Well that's just another lie.
I can't tell you how many pipmutt posts I've read and it's all good as long as you agree with the mutt.

Get real. If you disagree you'll be called all sorts of things.

That's why pipmutt still ain't shit.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #88
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:31am Jun 9, 2012 4:31am
Quoting 4extool

find some way .
All apologies.
Just the way it has to be.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #89
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:40am Jun 9, 2012 4:40am
Quoting 4extool

ok pipmutt, I just wanted to understand it clearly. I don't think it would be strange for you to make suggestions to someone who is, according to you, wasting potential, in other words; leaving pips on the table.
It's not just according to me, either there is more potential profit or there isn't. Setting an arbitrary 1:1 would likely mean unexploited potential of both market and trader. And this isn't just about pips, it's management of risk, money, and trade. Maybe it's the simplicity of 1:1 which makes it attractive?


Quoting 4extool

I'll be the first to admit that this could be a revelation for some people. But would you agree with me that to go after that extra potential, someone people could be forced to step out of their comfort zone and with that do more harm than good?
I'd agree to a certain extent that we should stay within our comfort zone but if we want to progress, realise our true potential, and ultimately excel we need to push ourselves. I think it's vital we prepare and condition ourselves before raising the bar otherwise like you say we could do more harm than good.


Quoting 4extool

Most of us are discussing on totally different levels and it's extra hard for me because I seem to be the only one who is not a profitable trader, yet.
I doubt very much that you're alone! Most of the stuff you read about profitable traders is just theory, some of it great theory but still not done on a practical level! The thing is what difference, if it makes sense....


Quoting 4extool

About you two guys having it out...I hope you can find some way and agree to disagree :-) I had something similar earlier this thread and it's just not fun.
Discussions are fine, Slim gets abusive when he can't support or defend his views! It's all good clean fun and amusement, I'm sure neither of us take it too seriously, but sometimes I find the best thing to do is just ignore his little rants, he gets over it eventually!
  • #90
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:47am Jun 9, 2012 4:47am
Quoting 4extool
ok pipmutt, I just wanted to understand it clearly. I don't think it would be strange for you to make suggestions to someone who is, according to you, wasting potential, in other words; leaving pips on the table.

I'll be the first to admit that this could be a revelation for some people. But would you agree with me that to go after that extra potential, someone people could be forced to step out of their comfort zone and with that do more harm than good?

It happened to me and I can say that; it's not only where you want to go, but it's also how...
Would it not depend on the method used?

Someone trading on a weekly basis for instance, might only pickup a couple of trades a week, in that case to close the trades to early might become an issue, someone on the 4hr picking up a few trades per day might close to early but then has another opportunity just around the corner, would it matter then if they closed to early?

As long as equity continues to increase, happy days.
  • #91
  • Jun 9, 2012 4:57am Jun 9, 2012 4:57am
Quoting pipmutt

Discussions are fine, Slim gets abusive when he can't support or defend his views! It's all good clean fun and amusement, I'm sure neither of us take it too seriously!
That's a good one. You're funny !
I remember abuse on this forum. It generally comes from you as I recall.

But you're being so sweet now. I wonder why.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #92
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:01am Jun 9, 2012 5:01am
Quoting Slim Buffett

But you're being so sweet now. I wonder why.
'Cos that's just the kinda guy I am.

Slim apart from being abusive do you actually have anything to say that's remotely connected to the discussion? Something? Anything?
  • #93
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:03am Jun 9, 2012 5:03am
Quoting pipmutt

gets over it eventually!
Maybe but I almost forgot.

YOU STILL AIN'T SHIT
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #94
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:05am Jun 9, 2012 5:05am
Quoting pipmutt
'Cos that's just the kinda guy I am.

Slim apart from being abusive do you actually have anything to say that's remotely connected to the discussion? Something? Anything?
I'm waiting for your words of wisdom to guide me. Sadly I haven't seen any yet.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #95
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:10am Jun 9, 2012 5:10am
Quoting pipmutt
'

do you actually have anything to say that's remotely connected to the discussion? Something? Anything?

BTW.... Not any more. I'm focused on being abusive. Can't you tell.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #96
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:24am Jun 9, 2012 5:24am
Quoting moodybot

Someone trading on a weekly basis for instance, might only pickup a couple of trades a week, in that case to close the trades to early might become an issue, someone on the 4hr picking up a few trades per day might close to early but then has another opportunity just around the corner, would it matter then if they closed to early?
It would as far as transaction costs and risk. Once a trade is profitable exposure can be increased and risk can be reduced, to zero in some instances, that's the benefit of having flexibility rather than for example an all in/out 1:1 approach. Then there's the issue of overtrading....


Quoting moodybot

As long as equity continues to increase, happy days.
Well it's certainly better than it decreasing that's for sure!
  • #97
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:26am Jun 9, 2012 5:26am
I think it depends on the method...I would be seriously shortchanging myself if I took 1:1 r/r...I'd rather move to break even first and hope to nail more profits which usually happens ....anyway different strokes for different folks.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #98
  • Jun 9, 2012 5:34am Jun 9, 2012 5:34am
To state the obvious: there's no one-size-fits-all RR value that's best for every possible type of approach.

In general, trend-following and/or breakout type strategies can work profitably because they look to cut losses quickly, and let profits run, which results in a lower win% but higher RR trades.

Whereas trading counter-trend and/or across sideways channels tends to require a higher win% in order to be overall profitable, because it's necessary to take profit earlier before a retracement occurs, resulting in lower RR.

If profit factor, which is the product of both win% and average RR, stays significantly greater than 1 over time, then you're profitable. It's both as simple, and as difficult, as that.
  • #99
  • Edited 7:54am Jun 9, 2012 7:24am | Edited 7:54am
IMHO, notes.


Onward from 1,2:
.Few trades (unreliable W:L), high confidence (reliable R:R); v-v.
.Market-move ("channel...counter-trend") (lots of trades) or intra-area motion (few trades) standardization presets value.
.Except, the source of one's reason -- from intuition from a reason very little in the conscious mind,
to a reason one resists yet does if the answer feels difficult to take --
also presets value, and also can adjust one's energy (not adjusting SL during trade) and discretion (not set area to frame trade reason).
.Maybe the best of all three: Know chart area type, adjust confidence so can move SL-TP favorably, and measure trust in reason the same regardless of reason's source.


On the reason itself,
a quibble:
pairs -- 'Return to the mean'; then, any borrowed (range-trend) or derived (balance-momentum) convention.
Single symbols are range-trend, since they can disappear.
  • #100
  • Jun 9, 2012 8:53am Jun 9, 2012 8:53am
Quoting ha-pattern
IMHO, notes.


Onward from 1,2:
.Few trades (unreliable W:L), high confidence (reliable R:R); v-v.
.Market-move ("channel...counter-trend") (lots of trades) or intra-area motion (few trades) standardization presets value.
.Except, the source of one's reason -- from intuition from a reason very little in the conscious mind,
to a reason one resists yet does if the answer...
I didn't call myself 4extool for nothing. This is way beyond my pay grade. :nerd:
It's my price or no price at all!
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