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Stop Hunting

  • #61
  • May 11, 2006 7:29am May 11, 2006 7:29am
Quoting Purple
Its the technology, only JAVA based platform have the technology to bypass the server rates in 'realtime' and display there own trades.

Other platforms can either freeze the same rate for a long time, raise spreads, or just freeze; but they cant tweek the rates in realtime as the market moves.
what??? sorry, but i think you have no idea what you are talking about. What a trading platform can or can not do has absolutly nothing to do with in what programming language and framework it is made. If i as a programmer include such funcionality int the software, then the platform can do it and if i do not, than it can't. It has nothing to do with in what particular language i do for my programming. And here we are talking about server side code. Who of us knows what technology was used to program the trading platform on server side? We can see only the client side, wich can be using different technology. So that the client is java-based says nothing about capabilities of the server side of the trading platform.
I'm not insane; my mother had me tested.
  • #62
  • May 11, 2006 7:45am May 11, 2006 7:45am
Quoting MuddBuddha
Don't get too freaked out. Keep in mind that forums typically post more bad comments than good. But their are plenty of people out there making ample amounts of money with the same brokers as those that lose money.

Hey, I just rambled in another post about how much I have enjoyed using FXsol and with the added tools of their platform I have been able to increase my weekly forex take home from @$800 a week to $1200+, not including what I get paid as a network tech and hosting company owner too!

So there is good in the World, it's just that we like to point out the bad more often than not.

There are plenty of people who would flame me and say FXsol is a cheat that stop runs and all other types of deceptions....but they have done fine by me and I have no complaints.
MuddBuddha you are 100% right about bad news...not only in forums but in news general...

point of this thread is:
you should not be in a trade where odds are against you....you will say great, but how i can know when not to trade?

donīt trade pre news announcments...because liquidity in general is poor at that time....so you encourage yor broker to hunt stops...

and donīt trade market right after news...sure there is a lot of volatility after news...donīt chase price after initial move...because picture is not always clear... be patient...wait and you will be rewarded for sitting on your hands...you weill get trade opportunity with better odds

have patience..to be a trader you donīt need to have open positions whole day...

stop hunting will continue...and you could not do much to prevent it....

market makers-big banks...they also hunt stops...but not alone...they often need help from other smaller banks...guys at big banks tell them at wich price stops are placed...so smaller banks help them to push price to this point..
  • #63
  • May 11, 2006 8:15am May 11, 2006 8:15am
Quoting RoBiK
what??? sorry, but i think you have no idea what you are talking about. What a trading platform can or can not do has absolutly nothing to do with in what programming language and framework it is made. If i as a programmer include such funcionality int the software, then the platform can do it and if i do not, than it can't. It has nothing to do with in what particular language i do for my programming. And here we are talking about server side code. Who of us knows what technology was used to program the trading platform on server side? We can see only the client side, wich can be using different technology. So that the client is java-based says nothing about capabilities of the server side of the trading platform.
I am an IB and am planning to soon be a White Label company, and when I did my reasearch for the best company to IB for I spent 6 months in deciding. I didnt just looked at the client's side of platform, as I was a part of it I had thorough look at the server side of a lot of companies (because I always approached them as a white labeler partner first). I am not a tech geek, but from what I saw from my experience into the research; was that Java based platforms had this option of parrellel price feeding, some companies I mentioned earlier offered it as part of package, some didnt.

When I asked the same for MT4, web portal based etc, they said its not possible, but I can always trigger the stoploss by raising the spreads.

You are right that the 'server side' can have any coding and they can manipulate. But note I am talking this as them 'offering' me as an IB, and not as an indidual investor. Maybe other platforms can manipulate price too from 'their server directly' but they cant offer it to a 'third party' because he dosent have JAVA based server or something.

Again that all from my personal experience and exposure.




And to others, just for the information, if anyone want to invest in Legal Options and blow this artificial market price scandal, than I have emails from Vice President of the Company which I would be very nicely willing to provide/disclose if it helps.
  • #64
  • May 11, 2006 9:25am May 11, 2006 9:25am
Unfortunately there is nothing new here, brokers, market makers have always manipulated price to their advantage.

It is all part of the game in trading futures I had one broker tell me if I could stand it to simply stop trading.

Of course, the electronic age has made it more difficult now as you can see many traders have different feeds and can protect themselves.((Buyer beware))

On the other hand is also made it easier for your brokers as their sophisticated software shows exactly where everybody stops are, heck OandA, even provides this information on a graph. Not as in depth as they have I am certain, but still.

As far as the name of the broker that did this. It honestly doesn't really matter to me if you wanna make a difference. If you really want to send a message start trading with ECN direct routing no dealing desk. They truly have no reason to hunt down your stops.

There is a couple of the ECN that even have public statement saying they do not have and will not invest in any type of software to see where their client stops are positioned.

To me trading with an ECN with no dealing desk and direct routing
would be the only way to send a strong message.

Investigate it the ECN I deal with usually has a one pip spread on the currencies that I trade, and then charge me $1 dollar for a mini lot. 10$for regular lot Round-trip commission.

So I'd say that's pretty fair as far as commissions and spread go.
A truly wise man, always has more questions than answers.
  • #65
  • May 11, 2006 9:41am May 11, 2006 9:41am
Purp, just FYI, Robik is right. It may simply be coincidence that Java platforms are the only ones who implemented this type of technology for their IB's, but from a technical standpoint, data manipulation will happen on the server-side (always). As it is, you'd have to send a command from your admin terminal to the client's terminal through the server in order to directly mainpulate an individual feed...but that could be done with any network connected terminal Java-based or not.

On another note...and I'm going to go into "conspiracy" mode...BUT...I've read at least 2-dozen books and hundreds of articles about trading the forex, and one thing that I've noticed about the authors and some commonalities between them is that 1) They usually WORK for a brokerage firm (like FXCM, etc) and 2) they are absolutely ADAMANT about entering a stop loss immediately as you trade.

Now we all know that if a broker has a bunch of stops clustered in an area that could be reachable without anyone noticing, they'll trigger them for the commissions...SO...what does that say about the conflict of interest?? ALL articles encourage electronic stop losses for a plethora of reasons (most of them very logical), BUT...yet, they hunt for them (as you were to say).

HMMM...I think it COULD be a way for them to gather more information on the market as a whole...wouldn't you think?

I know, I know...it's a bit of a stretch, because everyone on this board is also adamant about stops...but I wonder what would happen to the market if everyone just kept mental stops and no one used stop entry orders for a day. But it does make you wonder how much like cows all of us our to just "blindly" put faith in the addage about trading with stops. And don't get me wrong, I advocate the use of them, but I wonder if the having the convenience of an electronic stop just wields my opponent with more information.

What do ya'll think?
  • #66
  • May 11, 2006 3:39pm May 11, 2006 3:39pm
Quoting Purple
Its the technology, only JAVA based platform have the technology to bypass the server rates in 'realtime' and display there own trades.

Other platforms can either freeze the same rate for a long time, raise spreads, or just freeze; but they cant tweek the rates in realtime as the market moves.
I don't think that's right. Java is only a programming language. I'm a programmer and I could write code to do this in _any_ language. Why do you think only java can do it?
  • #67
  • May 11, 2006 3:41pm May 11, 2006 3:41pm
Folks,

I need some help from you all, or rather, some of you. I received a response back from the broker claiming that the price was a response to the price feed and that the feed from FXCM exhibited the same price at the same time. Could anyone using FXCM confirm this? Please use posts 16 and 17 to see the specific 1 minute candles. Specifically, what was the high price before the big move down and then the big reversal back up?

Thanks.
  • #68
  • May 11, 2006 3:42pm May 11, 2006 3:42pm
Also, did anyone using FXCM have this occur and call to complain with any sort of resolution?
  • #69
  • May 11, 2006 5:18pm May 11, 2006 5:18pm
Quoting stockwet
Folks,

I need some help from you all, or rather, some of you. I received a response back from the broker claiming that the price was a response to the price feed and that the feed from FXCM exhibited the same price at the same time. Could anyone using FXCM confirm this? Please use posts 16 and 17 to see the specific 1 minute candles. Specifically, what was the high price before the big move down and then the big reversal back up?

Thanks.
Doesn't FXCM use NetDania's price feed? or is that a misconception?

In any event, I'd be hard pressed to believe that they could have manipulated 1 specific client's feed...although, I suppose it IS possible. I figure they would come with this response. Sounds like the broker is an IB for FXCM.

Sorry, my friend...I hope it works out for you.
  • #70
  • May 11, 2006 8:50pm May 11, 2006 8:50pm
Quoting Purple
Ok I am being rained with PMs from you guys...

There are two brokers that I know have been using this method :

1. FXCM

2. ActForex, Inc.

From where I see, ONLY the brokers with JAVA based platform can have such system in place, so stay away from JAVA platforms.
Java is just a technology. any one with any kind of technology can have this.

I think some brokers have it even automatically and client based (each client get different price based on his position)
  • #71
  • May 11, 2006 9:40pm May 11, 2006 9:40pm
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5910/fxcmfeed8jx.jpg


This is from my real mini account. Hope this helps.
  • #72
  • Edited 10:06pm May 11, 2006 9:46pm | Edited 10:06pm
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2...hunt0029ia.jpg
Repost for comparison
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4...hunt0012fu.jpg


Didn't you say that your friend lost around $50k?....... is it me or could the possibility that his broker had manipulated his and ONLY his feed in order to trigger his stop seem not all that far fetched...? Seeing as im with fxcm makes me verry uneasy to be hit with this kind of hard proof...

btw, How many differnet brokers can you use with MT4?
  • #73
  • May 11, 2006 11:09pm May 11, 2006 11:09pm
Quoting ShaderZ


This is from my real mini account. Hope this helps.
Thanks. This does help.

His broker may have manipulated the price for just him. We have another guy on the same brokerage. I'll ask him to review the feed tomorrow.
  • #74
  • May 11, 2006 11:12pm May 11, 2006 11:12pm
OK. I think I could use some more help to really build a case here. Could I ask that as many people as possible with different brokers submit a 5m chart from yesterday, covering the period from 2:00 PM EST to about 3:00 PM EST? Any broker.

Thanks.

stockwet
  • #75
  • May 12, 2006 12:01am May 12, 2006 12:01am
Quoting ShaderZ
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2...hunt0029ia.jpg
Repost for comparison
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4...hunt0012fu.jpg


Didn't you say that your friend lost around $50k?....... is it me or could the possibility that his broker had manipulated his and ONLY his feed in order to trigger his stop seem not all that far fetched...? Seeing as im with fxcm makes me verry uneasy to be hit with this kind of hard proof...

btw, How many differnet brokers can you use with MT4?
Wow, baby...proof in the pudding right there...2 FXCM feeds? Seriously, though, I think it's time you give up this broker, we just saw that brokers have the ability to manipulate a price feed...what it seems like to me is that your BROKER manipulated the price feed using an admin terminal like Purp showed us earlier. Stock-y, my boy, we have uncovered something very disturbing and it would seem that your broker may have a vested interest in screwing your friend (not to mention the rest of us)...with an FXCM feed that shows the price discrepency, it would seem the cluprit is the broker...not FXCM...would you agree? I would show them the admin terminal along with the 2-dozen charts here and make them aware that you know of the price feed manipulation capability with FXCM...I mean, every chart on here has the price topping out at 1.2809 before heading to your friend's price target (and then back up). This is EXTREMELY disheartening...really...and quite troubling.

I don't know why you would want to put the rest of us in harm's way with these guys.

Certainly, you see everyone's dilemma...I would suggest at least telling us the broker and then keep us up-to-date on your friend's situation. I mean think about it...if the broker fixes the situation (and at this point, looking at the evidence, I would fricking demand the PROFIT back...not just the LOSSES), then we know your broker would be worth working with because WE would know they couldn't get away with cheating anyone in the collective (that's US, btw...hehe). We could keep them honest. However, obviously, if they DON'T fix the situation, then they definitely DESERVE to be BOYCOTTED by us...wouldn't you agree?

A LOT of people on this forum trade with FXCM or FXCM IB's and you just made a lot of people uneasy tonight, my friend...especially after seeing this posting I quoted....

Stock...you need to help us out and give up the broker so we can at least be wary of the right brokers...otherwise, we may be hurting FXCM and innocent FXCM IB's with our undirected paranoia (since we don't know anything about the broker, other than they use FXCM feeds).

Help!
  • #76
  • May 12, 2006 12:03am May 12, 2006 12:03am
Well here is my FXCM live account 5M chart .. hope it helps .. good luck!

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7876/eurusd5m5dq.gif

You can quit and they won't care, but you will always know.
  • #77
  • May 12, 2006 12:16am May 12, 2006 12:16am
Quoting Akuma99
Well here is my FXCM live account 5M chart .. hope it helps .. good luck!





Akuma, this is today's chart...he needs yesterday's chart from the FOMC release period.

The price should have been around 1.2800 right before the release.

I know it's because you're in Australia...so he wasn't exactly clear.
  • #78
  • May 12, 2006 12:24am May 12, 2006 12:24am
Stock, you know what I really want to see is someone's chart from the same broker. If they manipulate a SINGLE feed, this would be fraud. Regulated or not, they shouldn't be able to manipulate a SINGLE person's feed...this would be highly prejudicial (I mean, think about it...if you're an a$$ to a customer service rep of your broker over chat, they can trigger an artificial drop in price on your feed and stop you out)...they could also prejudice their friends and give them better prices to take out their friend's profit from their other clients...this EXTREMELY disturbing...I think we need to get a price feed from someone of the same BROKER to make sure they didn't manipulate the price for your friend...

just knowing that they could do that (manipulate a single person's feed) is REALLY scary...I mean, we're not talking 1 or 2 pips difference, man...your friend's stop was 20 pips further away...and just because there was volatility from FOMC doesn't explain a 20 pip move that NO ONE ELSE CAN SEE!!!! especially their own clients.

You really need to help us out here...because this would be grounds for a class action suit.
  • #79
  • May 12, 2006 1:09am May 12, 2006 1:09am
Here is my chart on FOMC release Time...I'm not hiding anything....we all have the right to know and make a decision of what the broker does and have the right to take the necessary action.

It's being just two weeks for me in FOREX and I'm really really pissed...Guys if i was in america...It's time to take these fraud brokers and feeders to the court ... atleast if nothing else, it will be a NEWS and people would come to know about it and be cautious.

Its just not fair that newbies and the pro's alike are being dragged to the cheat hole...common what are you guys waiting for....for another refco to cry up to make any decision..its the real test guys....and for that..I would go to the extreme to donate if you guys have any plans to set up a fund for the legal battle ahead and if some one takes the first step i would donate whatever is left in my brokers account ....and as I being saying all along....I'm really really running out of patience, hardwork and decipline to bring these guys to justice

My broker is north finance , a cyprus based company and i use metatrader4 and here is the chart of that eventfull day and the GMT shift in accourdance is around +3 hrs.

First one is 5M chart and second one 1M
  • #80
  • Edited 1:53am May 12, 2006 1:14am | Edited 1:53am
Pic Edit
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