No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far | Page 48 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

High leverage vs Low leverage 74 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 21 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 20 replies

Working of Leverage!!! 4 replies

Right now My metatrader3 is not working is yours working? 0 replies

Attachments: No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far
Exit Attachments

No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #941
  • May 25, 2012 3:42pm May 25, 2012 3:42pm
Quoting RandyG67

Just pretend I posted......
......and cue smoke

The very pertinent questions still exist and it's quite odd that to date not one of your 'group' has ever answered directly, hmmm....

Nothing definitive, no long term results, no statistics, heck not even a (live) trade example. Just a bottom line 'it works', 'it's consistent', 'try it for yourself' etc etc etc, and from that we're somehow supposed to evaluate and discuss?


Quoting RandyG67

I haven't heard (though, admittedly, I may have just missed it) of any of them actually trying what they "KNOW" to be wrong.
You don't have to put your hand in the fire to know it's going to burn you!

In the past before we knew any better most of us have probably tried all sorts of weird and wonderful strategies, or at least considered them as an option, but it's not rocket science to understand the pitfalls. What, you really think you've discovered some sort of groundbreaking approach that no one has ever thought of before? Oh please.....
  • #942
  • May 25, 2012 4:21pm May 25, 2012 4:21pm
LOL. Okay, we shall continue.

Yes, "trying it for yourself" always works best. I learned a couple of things from the cheesy Driver's Ed videos, I learned BEST and definitively by, you guessed it....doing it myself.

Quote
You don't have to put your hand in the fire to know it's going to burn you!

You get a point here for catchy sound bite but a goose egg for substance. Are you in American politics?

Quote
What, you really think you've discovered some sort of groundbreaking approach that no one has ever thought of before? Oh please.....

A review of my posts will tell the tale that I didn't ever think of this as groundbreaking. Simply another way.
  • #943
  • May 25, 2012 5:49pm May 25, 2012 5:49pm
Quoting RandyG67
Nacho,

It looks like you should have about three months under your belt trading this strategy. With a good mix of ranging and trending conditions. How's it going for you?
hi,

It is going fairly good, although now I have stopped entering new positions (been 10 days now not trading) because I have a few audusd longs open right now (yeah I know, bad moment to buy the aussie) so I want to reduce my floating loss before opening new trades.
I know this will affect my equity curve and I'm probably not gonna make the same amount of pips I did last month since I'm stopped now, but I'm still confident abt the final outcome !
  • #944
  • May 25, 2012 6:02pm May 25, 2012 6:02pm
Quoting 60minuteman
A couple of thoughts...

1. Forex is a high risk way of making money, our strategy should always be to minimize risk and at the same time maximize profits.... If the strategy only does one side of this equations it is in effect 'not working'.. just surviving isn't good enough.

2. I don't understand how the money management of the strategy works? this needs to be explained and give you an 'edge' in the market', if there is no defined stop loss how much is your risk on each trade? just using very small lots isn't reducing risk.

3. Is it not...
hi 60minuteman,

to reply to yr points

2. my "edge" is that I open only positions with high win probabilty (see enter rules on post #1). I agree, using very small lots does not reduce the risk, but reduces my account exposure signigicantly in terms of $$$

3. yes, possible, I'm going through a 2 weeks lock now, but I think I can cope with it. Here I could start again with the hedging story but I think it's already clear now. I also believe in retracement that happen every time even in the biggest move up/down. Now I have a problem because my account is too small and I admit I've been greedy and opened too many trades breaking my initial rule of max 5 trades open at the same time. I ve learned from the lesson and wont break this rule again. If respected, this rule allows me to have floating losses and keep opening new positions/counterpositions.
  • #945
  • May 26, 2012 1:13am May 26, 2012 1:13am
Quoting RandyG67

Are you in American politics?
lol, I thought the very same thing, avoidance of answering uncomfortable questions and sidestepping real issues and concerns! Anyway I thought the hand in fire thing was a great example, you certainly haven't countered it.


Quoting RandyG67

A review of my posts will tell the tale that I didn't ever think of this as groundbreaking. Simply another way.
But is it a viable 'other way'? From the information provided it appears not.

Any experienced trader, speculator, investor, businessman, financial advisor, and in fact anyone who makes any sort of deal will tell you the first thing they want to know is the risk involved, and then the potential for reward, how else would they be able to assess whether it's viable? You suggest they ignore the negatives and 'try it for themselves'? Hardly.....
  • #946
  • May 26, 2012 8:15am May 26, 2012 8:15am
Near Kitty Hawk, North Carolina in the early 1900's...........

Orville: Yo, Wilbur, you know that stuff Bob's been working on? He sent us that info the other day?
Wilbur: Oh no....not this 'flying an airplane nonsense again'! You know my bicycle is working just fine.
Orville: Yeah I know but mine isn't really doing it for me. I'd like to explore this additional method of travel.
Wilbur: Explore?! You mean learn? For ourselves? Nah, I'll just wait til Bob shows me every last detail.
Orville: I don't know. I mean, I respect Bob but I don't want to just completely rely on his way. We're smart. Let's go out and see what works for us. We'll know it a lot better that way.
Wilbur: Won't work.
Orville: How do you know? You haven't even tried it?
Wilbur: Too risky. I don't need to poke a horse in the butt to know he'll kick my teeth out.
Orville: 'scuse me?
Wilbur: Yeah, you know....risk. Besides, you do realize we could crash and burn? Burn, I said. Fire is hot.
Orville: Well of course it's risky, that's why we need to go out and practice. Learn everything ourselves so we can identify and manage the risks! I mean, Bob's nice and all, but I'm not gonna just take his word for it.
Wilbur: Your crazy. If flying is so great, why are so many people riding bicycles smart guy? And have you already forgot about the fire? Until Bob comes over here in his own airplane, takes me by the hand and flies me around for a few days, I'm sticking with my bicycle, thank you.
Orville: That's fine. Though I did hear Mary Jane Petersen comment on how cute you were and how sexy she thought the airplane project was.
Wilbur: Well what are we waiting for!? She's definitely worth some risk!
  • #947
  • May 26, 2012 8:23am May 26, 2012 8:23am
From the 'Principles of Learning' Wiki page:



The principle of exercise states that those things most often repeated are best remembered. It is the basis of drill and practice. It has been proven that students learn best and retain information longer when they have meaningful practice and repetition. The key here is that the practice must be meaningful. It is clear that practice leads to improvement only when it is followed by positive feedback.
The human memory is fallible. The mind can rarely retain, evaluate, and apply new concepts or practices after a single exposure. Students do not learn complex tasks in a single session. They learn by applying what they have been told and shown. Every time practice occurs, learning continues. These include student recall, review and summary, and manual drill and physical applications. All of these serve to create learning habits. The instructor must repeat important items of subject matter at reasonable intervals, and provide opportunities for students to practice while making sure that this process is directed toward a goal.


Seems there's a theme here. Note the use of words like "practice", "application", and "repetition".
  • #948
  • May 26, 2012 8:32am May 26, 2012 8:32am
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, 1949

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

"I have travelled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processings is a fad that won't last out the year."
- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice-Hall, 1957

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of DEC

Ouch. They just "knew", without having tried, what they were talking about didn't they?
  • #949
  • May 26, 2012 2:17pm May 26, 2012 2:17pm
Quoting RandyG67

Near Kitty Hawk, North Carolina in the early 1900's...........
A little weird but well, ok.......

You can't compare something which was never attempted before to something which has been tried and tested over decades, in numerous formats, and failed.

There's a classic example right here in this thread, the OP has unfortunately managed to paint himself into a corner and is stuck there until either the proverbial paint dries or the floor caves in!

.....funny how you had the time and inclination to copy and paste all that irrelevant stuff but still managed to avoid some very pertinent questions!

What's next in your catalogue of smoke-blowing avoidance tactics, an analogy about the Titanic maybe?

Be inventive, surprise me, I'm getting bored here!

























  • #950
  • May 26, 2012 2:43pm May 26, 2012 2:43pm
Quoting pipmutt
A little weird
YES !!

Quoting pipmutt
There's a classic example right here in this thread,
YES !!

Quoting pipmutt
.....funny
YES !!

Quoting pipmutt
Be inventive, surprise me, I'm getting bored here!
No problem
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #951
  • May 26, 2012 3:05pm May 26, 2012 3:05pm
Quoting pipmutt
I'm getting bored here!
BTW........ I may have misunderstood. Are you getting bored or are you simply boring ?

I'm told that being bored is an insult to oneself.

Well no matter,

I'm off to the races.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #952
  • May 26, 2012 3:25pm May 26, 2012 3:25pm
Quote
something which has been tried and tested over decades, in numerous formats, and failed.

I can only assume you are talking about trading without a SL? And, if so, I can only assume you have actually traded in this manner (without SL)? Surely you are not:

-on one hand asking me to provide proof of success, while on the other hand spouting off 2nd, 3rd, etc..... party knowledge that you "heard of" somebody somewhere "proving" this can't be successful.

tsk, tsk

Quote
funny how you had the time and inclination to copy and paste all that irrelevant stuff but still managed to avoid some very pertinent questions!

Let's see. Since I hopped on this thread I believe there are 2 questions I can find that I've overlooked in my quest to keep you from dying of boredom.

Quote
Well that's half the equation, what about risk:reward?

I don't quantify r:r in the sense of the accepted norm although I am very much aware of the risk of losing my invested capital. I position size accordingly. Now here's where I don't want to lose you but I know by my historical trading performance (ie, not what my wife's cousin told me [even though he's really good at math and knows "proper trading"]) what my entry size should be. Again....no "accepted truths". My. Own. Records. THEY tell me what my current (given my account size and current market conditions) entry size should be.

Quote
Just a bottom line 'it works', 'it's consistent', 'try it for yourself' etc etc etc, and from that we're somehow supposed to evaluate and discuss?

Why not? It seems you were told (you still haven't admitted to even trying it for yourself) somewhere that a no-SL method is not viable and you seem to have evaluated the hell out of that advice.

And don't lose sight of the fact that I'm not trying to out perform the next guy. You all get yours and I'll get mine. You earn Lambo money? Fine. I'll drive a Ford. But I'll still pay for it with money I made sitting at home in front of my computer.
  • #953
  • May 26, 2012 3:40pm May 26, 2012 3:40pm
Quoting RandyG67
I can only assume you are talking about trading without a SL? And, if so, I can only assume you have actually traded in this manner (without SL)? Surely you are not:

-on one hand asking me to provide proof of success, while on the other hand spouting off 2nd, 3rd, etc..... party knowledge that you "heard of" somebody somewhere "proving" this can't be successful.

tsk, tsk



Let's see. Since I hopped on this thread I believe there are 2 questions I can find that I've overlooked in my quest to keep you from dying of boredom.



I...
Damn ! Wish I would have thought of that. All I can do is stick with my original plans.
Seems RandyG67 has it covered.


..........but I'll be back someday.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #954
  • Edited May 27, 2012 1:12am May 26, 2012 3:47pm | Edited May 27, 2012 1:12am
Quoting RandyG67

I can only assume you are talking about trading without a SL? And, if so, I can only assume you have actually traded in this manner (without SL)?
With a stop, without a stop, I've tried and tested all sorts of strategies, weird, wonderful, obscure, simple, complex, heck even moon cycles for crissakes!

After many journeys up the garden path I eventually conceded that maybe the gurus had it right after all, so I gave that a shot and bingo. Why try to reinvent the wheel and start with a square template anyway, especially when it's less productive.

However, irrespective of whether I've tried it or not, the numbers don't stack up for a strategy which has many hundred of pips stop loss (risk) and <100 pips reward. Like I've said, grossly skewing risk:reward doesn't put the odds of longevity in it's favour and win:lose doesn't seem like it's going to save the day in the long run so why even bother?


Quoting RandyG67

I don't quantify r:r in the sense of the accepted norm
Now we're getting to the crux of the matter.....how do you quantify it then?


Quoting RandyG67

And don't lose sight of the fact that I'm not trying to out perform the next guy.
Me either, there's always someone better, but why purposely choose a strategy which has the odds of longevity against it and is less productive, it doesn't make sense.


-
  • #955
  • May 26, 2012 4:07pm May 26, 2012 4:07pm
Quoting pipmutt

After many journeys up the garden path I eventually conceded that maybe the gurus had it right after all, so I gave that a shot and bingo.
So exactly WHO are the gurus? How did you decide "they" were right.
In order to concede that "they" were right you admitted that you are wrong. Correct"

It logically would seem then, that someone who traded outside the realm of your "gurus" is simply something that you have not yet discovered. Just as you only recently discovered the "gurus".

Again, logic would seem to dictate that there is more than one way to trade successfully and I still fail to see why you can't get that through your dumb dog brain.

Who has trained you so well ?? How did they do it ?? Please reveal all so that I may be the Master of the Universe (apparently)???

Brainwashing is the SECRET ??
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #956
  • May 27, 2012 2:57am May 27, 2012 2:57am
[quote=pipmutt;5702798]With a stop, without a stop, I've tried and tested all sorts of strategies, weird, wonderful, obscure, simple, complex, heck even moon cycles for crissakes!





Now we're getting to the crux of the matter.....


Pipmutt, after talking to the guru's who gave you the lightbulb moment, I am intrigued as to whether it was a mindset or money management issue that turned your trading around rather than a new way of trading/looking at the markets?

Just interested as this post whch I could relate to when I first started in forex was placed on the symphonie thread and perhaps is more relevant to trader failure than any thing else

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...94#post5702894

M.
  • #957
  • May 27, 2012 3:46am May 27, 2012 3:46am
In regards to "classical" risk:reward measurements, tight risk controls, stops, etc.... here is an article on a blog by a guy who I respect as a trader... in fact, I believe he used to have a thread somewhere on this site... anyway.

He conducted a pretty detailed analysis of a small data set...and while I'm sure we can all argue about the margin of error on such data, and why "this here is different".... I think one would be better served to consider the logical "endpoint" to this study.

http://www.nobrainertrades.com/2010/...placement.html

As most will see, in fact the TIGHTER the stop, and the greater the risk:reward ratio is... the more money one makes in the long run, at least in this study.

What I do like about this little data set in particular is that there is that it demonstrates a steady, relatively smooth inverse relationship to the R:R ratio on one axis and the win rate on the other.

In other words, it's not just a "fluke" that a partiuclarly tight stop and distant target pays the best... in fact there is a clear and obvious direct relationship that can be seen regardless of how one varies the targets and the stops (at least in this one example, thought I speculate other examples would demonstrate similar results)

The problem with really having "no stop" is that should a position lose, at no point in time will one close it, regardless how bad the loss is. In effect, if they are ever completely wrong even 1 time during the course of their entire trading career... they no longer have a trading career. For all the "perfectionists" in the world... "perfect" is still the exclusive realm of spiritual deity's, not humans.

the alternative is to risk such a tiny amount that should a currency pair lose 50%+ of it's value, that such a loss would not create any significant setback in ones trading account. Of course, if this is the case... it is doubtful one is making a return that would approach even 10% per year.

Most people who trade "without a stop" actually do have a stop.... an emotionally reactive stop, that is generally terribly ineffective at actually protecting their trading capital... but they have a stop nonetheless. It's a stop for their emotions...not for their money.

If anyone has any hard data showing a 12 month history of successful stop-free trading, in the spot forex market, I would be very interested to see it posted. Anecdotal only goes so far... but a sample of real data, derived from trading real money, would be something I for one would like to see.

X
  • #958
  • May 27, 2012 4:04am May 27, 2012 4:04am
Quoting forextraderx
In regards to "classical" risk:reward measurements, tight risk controls, stops, etc.... here is an article on a blog by a guy who I respect as a trader... in fact, I believe he used to have a thread somewhere on this site... anyway.

He conducted a pretty detailed analysis of a small data set...and while I'm sure we can all argue about the margin of error on such data, and why "this here is different".... I think one would be better served to consider the logical "endpoint" to this study.

http://www.nobrainertrades.com/2010/...placement.html

As...
i agree totally, people just can't accept losing trades, they want high win rates and as such close their winners too soon.... Nobody looks at risk models and likes to accept hard facts and figures.

That's why I'm trying to reduce my win rate... because i'm looking for bigger rewards, higher r/r.... I know a will take more losers but my winners will far outweigh them... simples
tradewith60
  • #959
  • May 27, 2012 4:35am May 27, 2012 4:35am
Quoting 60minuteman
That's why I'm trying to reduce my win rate... because i'm looking for bigger rewards, higher r/r.... I know a will take more losers but my winners will far outweigh them... simples
Well...hehe...i wouldn't go THAT far

As for myself, I am working on a few aspects of my trading that are prerequisites before I can really dig into trade optimization, however, I have recently started to organize and classify previous trades by "setup" and then determine what stop size would have been "optimal", and how far the market went before pulling back to my entry... as well as how to optimize stop adjustment, scaling out, etc.

I'm sure it'll have the effect of reducing my win rate, but i wouldn't say that's my intention...

All joking aside... it should just make for more profit, and less time spent monitoring trades, so such optimization is probably something most market participants and methods would benefit from.

X
  • #960
  • May 27, 2012 6:37am May 27, 2012 6:37am
Quoting forextraderx
Well...hehe...i wouldn't go THAT far

As for myself, I am working on a few aspects of my trading that are prerequisites before I can really dig into trade optimization, however, I have recently started to organize and classify previous trades by "setup" and then determine what stop size would have been "optimal", and how far the market went before pulling back to my entry... as well as how to optimize stop adjustment, scaling out, etc.

I'm sure it'll have the effect of reducing my win rate, but i wouldn't say that's my intention...

All...
yeah... i should of said im looking to increase my r/r and im prepared for win rate to fall to achieve that... but you know what i mean...
tradewith60
1 trader viewing now