Where to start in this business? | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Chinese Yuan to start trading at the Merc. 2 replies

Start Trading Real Money Early 0 replies

Start Trading: Throw Those Excuses Out the Window 0 replies

Good start in live trades! 3 replies

When do the Asian/Aus/Kiwi sessions start and end? 4 replies

Attachments: Where to start in this business?
Exit Attachments

Where to start in this business?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 22, 2012 8:31am May 22, 2012 8:31am
So heres a short story of my trading history,i started trading forex about two years ago,so far im down about 3 grand euro in total over this period of time,i got couple of books like trading in the zone ,and japanesse candle stick charting techniques,but my biggest problem so far is lack of funds,patience and jumping into trades without any analysis just with the hope of scoring that golden opportunity where market gonna move towards your direction,also i lack discipline which makes my trading carrier a disaster as i tend to risk more then 10% on any given trade, with risk being broke at the end of the day with margin call,said that i also had few opportunities to turn couple hundred into grand or so with patience over months building my positions few euros at a time,until the greed would take over and, just to make clear i never traded the funds that i dont have,as im still young and have savings,part time job,and never risk money that i cant afford.Also after bigger looses which would range from 100 up to 1000 euro i would of take breaks for couple weeks to months,just to clear my mind and get over the pain and anxiety caused by it. Not to sound to desperate or complete noob in this business i learned a handfull of lessons and understating in forex market,but theres still a lot of gaps where i have no clue,like what influences ,sudden moves in market,why good news cause opposite effects,also how does the forex influence futures market or is it the other way around.So can anyone advice is there any type of courses even from beginners level online that would cover today's banking system and how does it affect the markets today,id be glad to find some website that would offer that opportunity to learn as to become entry level student into broker companies with some sort of diploma or certificate,to advance further.Im not looking for stuff that brokers offer like online webinars and other nonsence with few indicators and promises to make you rich as you progress,as we know indicators are always lagging behind and eventually when something unexpected happens they start giving false signals.
Said most of the stuff that bothering me hopefully there will be someone to guide me in the right direction where to find maybe pre recorded college lectures or some in depth reading that scratches beyond the surface of this business world.To finish this off over two years time i had many doubts to quit this business,but also the freedom it gives is something worth fighting for.So everyones replys and advices are welcome,thank you.
  • #2
  • May 22, 2012 10:08am May 22, 2012 10:08am
Quote
but theres still a lot of gaps where i have no clue,like what influences ,sudden moves in market,why good news cause opposite effects,

Perhaps my topic helps you a bit because what you are talking about is most likely correlation. Therefore don't forget to read the second part

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=361684

As a sidenote I would like to mention that position management can deffinetly help you with your patience. Some people do not recommend it but opening the smallest (micro) lot possible when you have that first feeling to enter the market helps you in being patience for further, bigger positions. Everyone, especially starters, have the big urge to just be in the market with a position running.
  • #3
  • Edited 1:39pm May 22, 2012 12:45pm | Edited 1:39pm
here is my opinions:
- trading is really simple and easy, so set your mind really, really and really... simple to identified the price moving.
- avoid a bunch of indicators such as MA, MACD, Fib.... They are history but we trade present and futures.
- every business moving day-by-day, so you trade daily chart give you better trade, and get in-out by time frame 1hr for more oppotunity, with daily trend can avoid spike by stupid news come out every day, your emotions, and give you more time for relax but more profits, bcause take final trade by weekly, twice a month or once a month same thing you got pay check from employers.
- know average hi-lo percentage of the month and/or day to easy see the price travel to destination.
- merge your mind to Big Boy's mind to know what they want to do in the market (you will learn this after do all those above).
- keep in your mind: work smart, don't work hard.

It's easy, isn't it ?
BullShit BearShit
  • #4
  • May 22, 2012 1:27pm May 22, 2012 1:27pm
Im not looking for stuff that brokers offer like online webinars and other nonsence with few indicators and promises to make you rich as you progress,as we know indicators are always lagging behind and eventually when something unexpected happens they start giving false signals.



Hi Pinkiaiii,

Sorry to hear your story, reminds me of myself, but listen ultimately it is Price Action trading that can give success in this business and as Roberts in the above post suggests it S&R, supply and demand that actually works and fortunately there are a few fantastic threads and some great guys who can help you out, I've been reading these guys for a while now and these guys are truly knowledgeable and honest people, check the below links...

I suggest you can start with BS Trading thread as it it is very simple to understand for beginners and then work your way to the next 2 threads....

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=311095


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=230888


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=288142
  • #5
  • May 23, 2012 5:16am May 23, 2012 5:16am
I'm exactly in the same position as you. Recently I found a great way of avoiding over-trading, it worked for me but it may and may not work for you. I started thinking about my stops first before I even think about the entry, this gives me better risk management and helps me avoid chasing trades. Hope this helps in some way
  • #6
  • May 23, 2012 5:57am May 23, 2012 5:57am
"Trading & Exchanges" (Larry Harris) is a good place to start, online forums are ok, but your time is better spent reading real books by real authors.
  • #7
  • May 23, 2012 6:15am May 23, 2012 6:15am
Quoting pinkiaiii
So heres a short story of my trading history,i started trading forex about two years ago,so far im down about 3 grand euro in total over this period of time,i got couple of books like trading in the zone ,and japanesse candle stick charting techniques,but my biggest problem so far is lack of funds,patience and jumping into trades without any analysis just with the hope of scoring that golden opportunity where market gonna move towards your direction,also i lack discipline which makes my trading carrier a disaster as i tend to risk more then 10%...
i would avoid getting in to deep with fundimentals at the beginning... unless you want to be an analyst...

my advice would be to trade something very simple with clear rules and clear money management...

then as you improve and grow confidence you can evolve and optimize your strategy...

don't obsess over high win rates or tight stops

Pick something like trendlines or s/r with price action... my trading has just got simpler and simpler as i have grown as a trader and my results have only improved...

If you really want to pay for a professional course I could recommend fxjake (walter jake) or specialist trading (steve primo).
tradewith60
  • #8
  • May 23, 2012 10:15am May 23, 2012 10:15am
In the UK there are a few certificates that you can get but from a trading perspective I am not sure how much they will help.

My advice to you is (at the risk of sounding cliche) to first find out what sort of a trader you are. There is no point position trading if your attention span doesn't exceed a few minutes and by the same token short term trading may not be for you if suffer anxiety and let a few losses get to you.

I know that I need to be right at least half the time! I can't trade if the system yields less than this. Whereas I have a friend who trades with less than 30% strike rate and is successful! Do you see the difference? We are both able to make money in this market but have dramatically different approaches.

With regards to fundamentals these are the rules...
If fundies align with technicals then take the trade
If they disagree then follow the technicals.

If the maket goes up on bad news this is very bullish! The reverse if the market goes down on good news... very bearish.

The themes in the market over the past years have been risk on and risk off... When there is a problem in the market look to the Yen, Dollar and Franc to strengthen.

Does this all make sense?

Ultimately there isn't really a wrong or right answer. Before you can be successful you have to be able to understand yourself and your needs!

Let me know if you want to know more

Nexas
  • #9
  • May 23, 2012 10:38am May 23, 2012 10:38am
My advice: First, learn how to use sentences. That was a real chore to read through.

Next: Forget about trading forex if you can't control yourself enough not to jump into random trades, risking 10% of your account. There are less expensive hobbies out there. Retail level Forex is really just one big casino with the odds stacked against you. Save yourself a lot of money, time and stress by just forgetting about it. Or, get serious about it and treat it as a business, focusing on minimising risk and loss. There is almost no chance for you to succeed in this and one day you will agree, but right now you won't. You will keep chugging on, making the same mistakes over and over until you give up and go back to a regular job that is just bearable.
  • #10
  • May 23, 2012 11:00am May 23, 2012 11:00am
Quoting Roofx
My advice: First, learn how to use sentences. That was a real chore to read through.

Next: Forget about trading forex if you can't control yourself enough not to jump into random trades, risking 10% of your account. There are less expensive hobbies out there. Retail level Forex is really just one big casino with the odds stacked against you. Save yourself a lot of money, time and stress by just forgetting about it. Or, get serious about it and treat it as a business, focusing on minimising risk and loss. There is almost no chance...
I'm going to go out on a Limb here, and say " We are not all from the same place ..." . You are one ray of sunshine..lol
  • #11
  • May 23, 2012 1:51pm May 23, 2012 1:51pm
Quoting taomql4
I'm going to go out on a Limb here, and say " We are not all from the same place ..." . You are one ray of sunshine..lol
It's pretty obvious the OP's native language is most likely English but he doesn't know how, or can't be bothered, to write it properly or at least in an easily legible way.

I'm not a ray of sunshine, no. I am a ray of realism.

To answer the thread's original question of where to start in this business, well here are your options:

1: Try lots of 'systems' you find on Forex Factory in an effort to find the one diamond in the rough that makes consistent profit and allows you to build your account into something you can live off. Good luck with that.

2: Skip the first 3-4 years of pain and cut straight to the part where most traders who actually make any money eventually end up; and that is teaching others how to trade by charging them money to attend a school or course of some sort. Pretend that you know the secrets to trading forex profitably and that you are a millionaire here to teach others how to succeed like you did....for just £99 per month. Those stupid enough not to ask the question "if he's so successful why is he trying to make money teaching?" will sign up and believe that they too can be rich like you. Until one day they gain some basic common sense and see what's going on, and then begin teaching their own trading school in a desperate attempt to earn something from forex.

3: Study for years on the fundamentals, price action and how banks trade until you have a very detailed knowledge of how the forex market works, how stocks affect forex, how hedge funds work and what banks and big traders look for before putting orders through. Figure out what the massive traders are probably about to do, and do it just before them. Then you will make profit.

4. Don't bother with trading. Instead, simply choose a job you think you might be able to stand for the next 10-30 years of your life, and do that.
  • #12
  • May 23, 2012 3:56pm May 23, 2012 3:56pm
Quoting Roofx

1: Try lots of 'systems' you find on Forex Factory in an effort to find the one diamond in the rough that makes consistent profit and allows you to build your account into something you can live off. Good luck with that.
Keep on trying until you find what works for you ?

Quoting Roofx
2: Skip the first 3-4 years of pain and cut straight to the part where most traders who actually make any money eventually end up; and that is teaching others how to trade by charging them money to attend a school or course of some sort. Pretend that you know the secrets to trading forex profitably and that you are a millionaire here to teach others how to succeed like you did....for just £99 per month. Those stupid enough not to ask the question "if he's so successful why is he trying to make money teaching?" will sign up and believe that they...
Isn't making money in one way the same as making it in another way? The goal is to make money? It isn't illegal. Is there really so much difference?

Quoting Roofx
3: Study for years on the fundamentals, price action and how banks trade until you have a very detailed knowledge of how the forex market works, how stocks affect forex, how hedge funds work and what banks and big traders look for before putting orders through. Figure out what the massive traders are probably about to do, and do it just before them. Then you will make profit.
Just when you think you have it all figured out, the dynamics change? What was once good for the USD is now bad and vice versa? What to do?

Quoting Roofx
4. Don't bother with trading. Instead, simply choose a job you think you might be able to stand for the next 10-30 years of your life, and do that.
Some may be much happier with a job/career. A lot less headaches, less to worry about. Put in your day and be done.

Really.... I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just food for thought.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #13
  • May 23, 2012 4:20pm May 23, 2012 4:20pm
Quoting Roofx
My advice: ......

Forget about trading forex if you can't control yourself enough not to jump into random trades, risking 10% of your account. There are less expensive hobbies out there. Retail level Forex is really just one big casino with the odds stacked against you. Save yourself a lot of money, time and stress by just forgetting about it. Or, get serious about it and treat it as a business, focusing on minimising risk and loss. There is almost no chance for you to succeed in this and one day you will agree, but right now you won't. You...

I will make a comment on this post by Roofx as well:

Spot on and all true.

Tough Love is sometimes hard to hear.

Anyone who doesn't like the sound of that post, hasn't been around long enough for the reality of it to finally sink in.
  • #14
  • May 23, 2012 4:35pm May 23, 2012 4:35pm
Quoting Price
I will make a comment on this post by Roofx as well:

Spot on and all true.

Tough Love is sometimes hard to hear.

Anyone who doesn't like the sound of that post, hasn't been around long enough for the reality of it to finally sink in.
Yes, exactly. I am not trying to be a Danny Downer and spoil the fun, but I have been in this game long enough to know what's what and forex is not what the newbies think it is. Tough love, exactly.

Good luck to all of you and I wish success to all but to newbies out there, as I myself once was, it's going to be a long uphill struggle before you even begin to understand what you are involved with here.
  • #15
  • May 24, 2012 3:13am May 24, 2012 3:13am
Thanks everyone for your advice there is plenty to listen and learn from you,and yes my first language isn't English just live in an english speaking country so wouldnt be great in conversations but can put sentences together quite ok

Quoting Roofx
My advice: First, learn how to use sentences. That was a real chore to read through.

Next: Forget about trading forex if you can't control yourself enough not to jump into random trades, risking 10% of your account. There are less expensive hobbies out there. Retail level Forex is really just one big casino with the odds stacked against you. Save yourself a lot of money, time and stress by just forgetting about it. Or, get serious about it and treat it as a business, focusing on minimising risk and loss. There is almost no chance for you...
as for this comment i think you are right my weekly income is about 200-300 euro and i had weeks where i would loose 600 in a blink of an eye,only problem to make money i have to work hard as its physical work,and when such loss happens and you have to wake up 6 in the morning for work it feels worse then a kick in the balls.As we have saying mother is hope of all eejits,maybe im am one of them.Gonna need to spend time really thinking what i want to be in life,and as i said thanks for everyone's replys.
  • #16
  • May 24, 2012 10:28am May 24, 2012 10:28am
Please excuse my assumption about your first language.

Yes it is very tough, like a kick in the balls indeed. There are many thousands of members on this forum and only a tiny tiny handful of them are making a living from trading (and this does not include those who simply run teaching schools because they can't make money from their trading). And those who are making a living from trading forex are not using the systems and common methods people endlessly discuss in the forums. It is not that simple.

My advice to you is to move on from forex and find another dream, something you can become good at that isn't based on gambling. Trading forex is essentially gambling. We bet on a future outcome and hope to be right. Those who have an advantage that lets them know more than the rest, can make money, but you can rest assured they will not go teaching that secret advantage on the forums. Forex Factory is mostly a comprehensive database of everything that does not work. Think about what I am saying and maybe you will realise that this is a very useful thing to know. How do we find out the solution to a given problem in life? We rule out everything that does NOT work, and that leaves us with what does work.

I have been on a positive streak for quite a few months now, scalping tops and bottoms for profit. But I am almost certain my winnning streak will run out and in the end, maybe a year from now I will be back at break even or worse. And I have been trading 8-12 hours per day, 5 days a week for years, back testing and researching at the weekends, putting 100% of my time and energy into it.

To win at this you need a real, true edge, and the scary thing about that is that even when you find it, the markets will eventually change and that edge will become useless, forcing you to find some other way to stay ahead of the competition. You need to know what the really big traders are doing and follow them. But these guys are crafty and will use all sorts of tactics to take money out of the market. Forex is probably going to be the most difficult career any of us attempts to master. And all but a small minority will fail in this. If I told you that I had a job offer for you that paid really well but first you needed to spend 40 hours per week for 5-10 years studying the skills you would need, supporting yourself with your own money in the mean time, and at the end of all this you had about a 2% chance of getting the job....would you do it? Welcome to forex.

Retail Forex is the broker's dream come true.
  • #17
  • May 24, 2012 12:41pm May 24, 2012 12:41pm
save your soul dude...quit
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #18
  • May 24, 2012 2:44pm May 24, 2012 2:44pm
Quoting mahnooj
Im not looking for stuff that brokers offer like online webinars and other nonsence with few indicators and promises to make you rich as you progress,as we know indicators are always lagging behind and eventually when something unexpected happens they start giving false signals.



Hi Pinkiaiii,

Sorry to hear your story, reminds me of myself, but listen ultimately it is Price Action trading that can give success in this business and as Roberts in the above post suggests it S&R, supply and demand that actually works and fortunately there are...
Thanks Mahnooj, the Red thread about PA is fantastic!

I fell in love with PA now, lol. Do you know a good place to start? I downloaded the "Price is Everything" Book, there are a lot of nice charts. I am watching the Sam Seiden Webinars and the Professional Trader Series DVD Set from his site - IDK If this DVD Set are really good.

Thanks again Mahnooj, you enlightened my way, hehe.
  • #19
  • Dec 31, 2012 5:17pm Dec 31, 2012 5:17pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
Keep on trying until you find what works for you ?



Isn't making money in one way the same as making it in another way? The goal is to make money? It isn't illegal. Is there really so much difference?



Just when you think you have it all figured out, the dynamics change? What was once good for the USD is now bad and vice versa? What to do?



Some may be much happier with a job/career. A lot less headaches, less to worry about. Put in your day and be done.

Really.... I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just food...
Slim, Ive traded for many years, mostly stocks, some Forex. And I agree with you 98% If you have any other job , you can just do it and go home and forget about it. I, now pushing into profitable territory admit one thing..."I never can forget about Forex long enough to accomplish any other goals. Today for example. Its new years eve. What sane person is on a forex forem on new years eve?

I would like to add something important....the only chance you have is if you make forex what you eat,sleep and breathe, and understand, like pro boxing, there are thousands doing the same thing who want your money.

But.....if you devote all the time, all the hours a day and years of study to something where there are many ways to win, you have a much better chance at being successful. In fact if you take all the hours per day you put into Forexc and put it into MARTIAL ARTS...you can probably be a state champion in under 5 years.

Also, keep this sad fact in mind. We know now it takes an average of 10,000 hours of practice to be called an expert at something. The sad part is that on just this board alone, just on Forex Factory, many have done that much and a lot more......and cant even get to break even. In almost any other thing in the world, if you put in 10,000 hours to study itr, you would have the contentment to be able to teach it at least, to make a living from it, even if there are many experts around. Only Forex looks at all your effort and if you dont have one of 2 things...LUCK(in finding the right system, either here or self study) or such brainpower that you would make The Market Wizards or Bobby Fischer the world chess cvhampion blush, without one or both of those 2 things, you better look at this as a hobby! If I am wrong, pleeeeeeeeeaaaases tell me how. Im almost on my 10,ooth hour. Slim RoofX and the others here who have been kind enough to tell the truth...thank you.

And if I may add one more thing: Why Forex? Why not stocks where there are 10,000 of them, each with their own personality, and manipulation by governments and banks are not the norm. Stocks are easier. But alas, I fell in love with Forex trading too. And you think you can beat Futures trading of the stock indices like the ES? yeah ok. A guy who buys thousands of contracts at a time and has friends who let him buy most of his order on the bid, he's going to let you outfox him. And the guys with the HFT's, and the guys who get "leaked" inside info long before the charts show a brief 30 min reversal that comes out of nowhere with very little pick up in volume....sure, absolutely. In fact to me Futures trading in stock indexes are even tougher than Forex. Too many guys trying to buy on the bid. Too many guys who never let you get a good run like you can get here i Forex because almost all the retail traders bail so quickly and are back in when the trend has ended, the broker gets all their money anyway.
  • #20
  • Dec 31, 2012 7:17pm Dec 31, 2012 7:17pm
Quoting Silat50
Slim, Ive traded for many years, mostly stocks, some Forex. And I agree with you 98% If you have any other job , you can just do it and go home and forget about it. I, now pushing into profitable territory admit one thing..."I never can forget about Forex long enough to accomplish any other goals. Today for example. Its new years eve. What sane person is on a forex forem on new years eve?

I would like to add something important....the only chance you have is if you make forex what you eat,sleep and breathe, and understand, like pro boxing, there...
Have you taken a look at the material mentioned above by Sam Seiden? Sam basically just re-brands support and resistance if you want to be simple about it, but he does make a convincing argument for why it works with regards to supply and demand. I've watched a number of his webinars and read some of his articles, and it seems that a lot of this stuff ties into the same core concept of watching price action at certain key price zones.

I'm not a profitable trader, I'll say that up-front. But for the two months I've been doing price action trading, my entries have been pretty impressive; my weak spot is managing my exit, which is a whole new ball of wax. I will say that you shouldn't focus on the intraday levels when you do this. From what I've seen pinbars, inside bars, etc are a lot more reliable on higher time frames up to daily. I use the daily to draw my key levels in and then use either the daily or the 6H chart to search for a low risk entry. An example of my charts are provided (EUR/USD); the first is the daily, the second is the 6 hour. At the moment I'm seeking a reaction off of the current support as it hasn't been tested yet.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: daily.png Size: 52 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 6hour.png Size: 55 KB
0 traders viewing now