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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #881
  • May 18, 2012 2:56am May 18, 2012 2:56am
Quoting fxtr51

his troll-postings have not been deleted.
Funny how the person who accuses everyone who doesn't agree with him of being a troll and claims he is the the forum's 'troll-busting' saviour is the one with the most deleted posts! lol, look how that worked out!


Quoting fxtr51

No place for a reasonable discussion in this thread.
On the contrary, we were having a very nice discussion thanks.


Quoting fxtr51

Lock Unlock has been described in this thread
Only in very vague terms, without specific examples, and without any (long term) substantiated results. It's really a non-strategy which needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.


Quoting fxtr51

I am out.
Questions about your questionable strategy getting a bit too difficult to answer huh, I understand.

Well cheerio then, thanks for stopping by......
  • #882
  • May 18, 2012 3:16am May 18, 2012 3:16am
Quoting P.Dean
Hi Bob.. wouldn't you think all that without a well defined entry point might not have the best impact on the bottom line as it could?..
i was the kind of a guy that used to say entry is just a excuse to get in the market and your Trade Management is what would make the difference and I still believe it to some degree and full believe in the TM part.. but later on as i grew as a trader i learned that a well defined entry to get in accordingly well is also as important and kicks up Traders bottom line a few levels up. so its all hand in hand IMHO....
Put the two together and you make money. Simple enough.
  • #883
  • May 18, 2012 3:16am May 18, 2012 3:16am
Quoting fxtr51
Now I have evidence that lillelise is indeed a buddy of an Admin.
He is protected and his troll-postings have not been deleted.

That opened the way for thelws to post an unsubstantiated troll statement
and it hasnīt been deleted too.

This thread is thus open for trolls, the Admins have their buddies in this thread and will not look that the forum rules will be respected.

Other members have told me this , I didnīt know lillelise before but they were correct about him and his special connection to twee.

No place for a reasonable discussion in...
Then they have won....

Unfortunately your wasting your time with these guys.

Who pays the wages, who advertises their product all over the forum, who controls the market that we trade in.

Any decent system that can make serious money, gets nailed, especially if its a no S/L, hedge idea. Happens over and over again.

It makes me wonder why some people descend on a thread like this and then fight tooth and nail to prevent other traders from finding out for themselves whether it works or not, would you bother, I wouldn't.

In all honesty would you think they would continue with this if they didn't have other motives..., and as you mention, the private PM's that are floating about have all came to the same conclusion regarding certain members on here, same names crop up on various threads and only when it starts to get a little to close to for comfort with the brokers.

Bet this post gets removed fairly quickly.
  • #884
  • May 18, 2012 4:16am May 18, 2012 4:16am
[quote=pipmutt;5677810]A reasoned post, not that I necessarily agree with your opinions but at least you presented them in a reasonable way! I'm almost tempted to vouch for you....only almost!

Thanks!
I donīt want to sound arrogant,but the only vouching Iīm after is my account ,when growing...and your comments where also worth reading..
Have a nice day.
  • #885
  • May 18, 2012 4:50am May 18, 2012 4:50am
[quote=pipmutt;5678850]Impact yes, both positive and negative!

Your trade size is specifically designed to allow for 000's of pips drawdown, averaging, and martingaling which is why you're trading for pennies. Compared to a trade with a realistic stop and therefore a leveraged position it's hardly the best use of capital, leverage, compounding, or the market itself.


But averaging and martingale is not what we are dealing with in this thread, but hedging as opposed to SL.
And the math does work, itīs a very old idea.
In the end you need a positive expectancy system.Problem is systems work, then they donīt , then they work again...
If you can recover most of the potentiall loosers, however you do it...even semimartingale...with a specific limit...then you get your extra edge.
Math again...
Mistakes play also a big role on the bottom line...one nasty mistake a month, and that could be enough to waste all your time (and $).

And finally, in my humble opinion: time is the most important factor...cause itīs limited...when I look at the time axis of any chart...itīs not the time of the EURUSD or any other, itīs a graph of my time...cause maybe tomorrow I wonīt be around...EURUSD most probably will..
Thatīs why fun is paramount...regardless...one lifetime.
  • #886
  • May 18, 2012 10:02am May 18, 2012 10:02am
Quoting cuchuflito

hedging as opposed to SL.
And the math does work, itīs a very old idea.
If you're talking about long/short same pair/amount (nedging) then sure the math works out, it's more expensive, that's clearly demonstrated right here in this thread.


Quoting cuchuflito

In the end you need a positive expectancy system.Problem is systems work, then they donīt , then they work again...
Some systems perhaps, others stand the test of time. As regards market analysis you're a Fib expert so you'll know how that performs over time, in all markets and all time frames. It's not necessarily the tools, it's the adeptness of the person using them.


Quoting cuchuflito

If you can recover most of the potentiall loosers, however you do it...even semimartingale...with a specific limit...then you get your extra edge.
Math again...
Recover? If you mean in the Nanningbob sense then yes, math, it's not in your favor unfortunately!


Quoting cuchuflito

And finally, in my humble opinion: time is the most important factor...cause itīs limited...when I look at the time axis of any chart...itīs not the time of the EURUSD or any other, itīs a graph of my time...cause maybe tomorrow I wonīt be around...EURUSD most probably will..
Thatīs why fun is paramount...regardless...one lifetime.
It's a serious business but yes I agree, people should enjoy their trading, I know I do. Why would anyone do something they don't enjoy and which isn't productive, they may as well have a regular 9-5, at least they'd get a regular income, paid holidays, and medical!
  • #887
  • May 18, 2012 10:58am May 18, 2012 10:58am
oh mine, not to be offensive, but from what you posted, there are quite many points contradicting with each other

you are quite probably just like me, a loser (of trading), hoho.

Quoting cuchuflito
Not that school, but I can tell you Iīm an expert in Fibonacci trading and Elliot Wave. Studied for years, own some of the best software in the industry...I know about some secret Fibos, I know how to measure Fibos exactly on the price and time axis.....
Let me tell you something, follow all that that I mentioned, by the book: it wonīt work.
The same goes for moving averages, S/R, Macd, and everything else....why do you think thereīs an endless list of systems, and threads, and indicators, and, and....
MM and position sizing, specailly position...
  • #888
  • May 18, 2012 12:27pm May 18, 2012 12:27pm
but to me this is absolutely useless comments

what does this mean exactly? does it mean a losing system (without MM) can become profitable with MM/pos sizing?

obviously not!

and biggest impact??? not as big as a cup of milk of my breakfast......

Quoting nanningbob
You nailed it on the head:

MM and position sizing, especially position sizing, have the biggest impact in your bottom line.

Been saying that for a long time.
  • #889
  • May 18, 2012 2:35pm May 18, 2012 2:35pm
Quoting charvo
but to me this is absolutely useless comments

what does this mean exactly? does it mean a losing system (without MM) can become profitable with MM/pos sizing?

obviously not!

and biggest impact??? not as big as a cup of milk of my breakfast......
im affraid charvo.....you will never get an explanition....

other than something like : its already been answered,,we dont wanna do the search for you......open a demo..pratice ,the answer is right there..
and so on....

if you keep asking...you will then be a thread destroyer,,a naysayer..a Troll.. and so on...
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #890
  • May 18, 2012 3:01pm May 18, 2012 3:01pm
i respect and like Bob actually, been reading his threads for years. i just speak out my different opinions. on the other hand, i sometimes trade with lock-unlock only because i feel comfortable though i now know it brings only a psychological advantage.

this is a fun thread, i'm happy to see we laugh at each other, and throw sarcasm at stupid comments (no matter whose).

tell you what, making fun of stupid comments/actions is really a major fun of a person's life, at least to me.

Quoting lillelise
im affraid charvo.....you will never get an explanition....

other than something like : its already been answered,,we dont wanna do the search for you......open a demo..pratice ,the answer is right there..
and so on....
  • #891
  • May 18, 2012 8:55pm May 18, 2012 8:55pm
Quoting charvo
but to me this is absolutely useless comments

what does this mean exactly? does it mean a losing system (without MM) can become profitable with MM/pos sizing?

obviously not!

and biggest impact??? not as big as a cup of milk of my breakfast......
Funny I just agreed with the comment made. Talk to the person who wrote it.
  • #892
  • May 19, 2012 11:36am May 19, 2012 11:36am
Quoting lillelise

im affraid charvo.....you will never get an explanition....
Yeah it's that supply and demand thing again.....


(Just seen your troll spray, lol, classic! )
  • #893
  • May 19, 2012 2:47pm May 19, 2012 2:47pm
now after trading a few yrs, i wouldn't agree with crap comments, would i? no matter if the comments are friendly or not to me. trading is the only thing in this world NOT gray. right is right, and crap is crap. that cruchuf?'s comments, are unfortunately mostly ....... well you know......

Quoting nanningbob
Funny I just agreed with the comment made. Talk to the person who wrote it.
  • #894
  • May 19, 2012 6:39pm May 19, 2012 6:39pm
Quoting charvo
now after trading a few yrs, i wouldn't agree with crap comments, would i? no matter if the comments are friendly or not to me. trading is the only thing in this world NOT gray. right is right, and crap is crap. that cruchuf?'s comments, are unfortunately mostly ....... well you know......
Really, if you dont get the lot size to account size thing down you will have trouble making consistent profits, month in and month out, year in, year out. I can trade almost any type of trading system now because of this truth. I can trade with the trend, CT, and range trade successfully and profitably because of sound MM system. Nothing crap about the statement at all. And you know what, whether you agree or not doesnt change the basic truth of the sentence. You can take a successful trading system and use bad MM and turn it into a losing trading system. You can take a losing trading system and change the MM on it and turn it into a winning trading system. People told me you couldnt take a CT system and make money, long term with it. Well I did and proved it, not only by doing it myself but having other traders follow and do the same. You get the MM thing down right and you can be a consistent profitable trader. Rejection of the statement doesnt change its truth. That was the turning point of my trading profitability and consistency. MM and proper lot sizing.
  • #895
  • May 19, 2012 8:07pm May 19, 2012 8:07pm
bob, i think the quote below is wrong. but it is your freedom to believe it.

but there are many victim of the write-to-earn guys like V. Tharp (ur belief is his classical claim).

Quoting nanningbob
、You can take a losing trading system and change the MM on it and turn it into a winning trading system.
  • #896
  • May 19, 2012 8:26pm May 19, 2012 8:26pm
Quoting charvo
bob, i think the quote below is wrong. but it is your freedom to believe it.

but there are many victim of the write-to-earn guys like V. Tharp (ur belief is his classical claim).
I have no issue with you and if we disagree on this point, no problem. My experience was, when I toned down my lot sizes and went for a reasonable profit month by month I became successful. Every person comes to the table with different expectations in investing. I have found that buy and hold, (sell and hold) can work in Forex trading also. As you know I get roundly ridiculed for such beliefs but they have been used for centuries as an investment tool. Anyway I have work to do and need to get ready for my trading week. Good luck.
  • #897
  • May 20, 2012 12:11am May 20, 2012 12:11am
Quoting nanningbob
You can take a successful trading system and use bad MM and turn it into a losing trading system.
Correct. A positive expectancy system can still destroy your account if you don't use appropriate MM. Even "proper MM" applied to a positive expectancy system can ruin you, but at that point you can at least say it was just bad luck .

Quoting nanningbob
You can take a losing trading system and change the MM on it and turn it into a winning trading system.
Technically incorrect, but depends on your definition of "losing trading system". If the mathematical expectancy of the system is negative, then MM cannot save it (although it can prolong the agony). This is evident to anyone who has tried to use MM to gain long term profits at roulette, or any other casino game where you bet against the house. It is possible to imagine a positive expectancy system to be a "losing system" though, if you use a loose definition.
  • #898
  • May 20, 2012 12:58am May 20, 2012 12:58am
I can't believe you guys are talking about money and risk management as if it's some big revelation, it's one of the very first things everyone should know when they get into trading, it's pretty basic stuff!

fierceman I don't think you can compare MM tactics in games like roulette to MM in retail forex trading.

Casino games have a definitive beginning and end, you either win or lose a hand/spin/etc and then go on to the next hand, rinse and repeat. In forex, (although it's a totally ineffective use of capital, leverage, and effort), you can trade pennies and hold on to your hand for as long as it takes to turn into a winner, in effect meaning any strategy could be profitable. Of course the question then is what someone considers 'profitable' and a productive use of time, money, and effort!
  • #899
  • May 20, 2012 12:57pm May 20, 2012 12:57pm
Quoting pipmutt
fierceman I don't think you can compare MM tactics in games like roulette to MM in retail forex trading.
There are differences of course, if you want to get into details. My point was that MM will not make a negative expectancy system into a positive one. Roulette is just a simple, clear example of the futility of such thinking.

Quoting pipmutt
you can trade pennies and hold on to your hand for as long as it takes to turn into a winner, in effect meaning any strategy could be profitable.
Tell that to the people who bought USD/JPY at 262.00 in 1985 .
  • #900
  • May 20, 2012 10:17pm May 20, 2012 10:17pm
Quoting fierceman

There are differences of course, if you want to get into details. My point was that MM will not make a negative expectancy system into a positive one. Roulette is just a simple, clear example of the futility of such thinking.
Roulette isn't a comparable for some of the reasons stated. The futility is most of these 'recovery' strategies are a very poor use of time, money, and effort. They're designed and used by/for people who lack basic understanding and the ability to trade productively.

Take the worst negative expectancy strategy in the world and with the use of some convoluted mix of averaging, martingaling, nedging, and chipping away at unrealized losses they can produce a meagre profit. Sure, for any trader they're a futile waste of time but these guys aren't traders, they're just playing at trading. Money management is crucial for these strategies to survive the drawdown, most of them are limited to trading pennies for that very reason.


Quoting fierceman

Tell that to the people who bought USD/JPY at 262.00 in 1985 .
Even for an extreme example like that there probably would have been ways to make a few pennies or break even. Again, not worth the time and effort but it is do-able.
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