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  • #781
  • May 13, 2012 4:06pm May 13, 2012 4:06pm
Quoting LazyPawn
Can you provide more details on your technique, because so far nobody has managed to make it profitable? It's known as futile hedging.

Let me give you an example and correct me if I misunderstood your way of doing it.

Suppose at some point you buy the euro at 1.3000, assuming that it will go up, and you have a target at 1.3050 (50 pips), that would be 1% of your account. If the market drops to 1.2950 you don't take a loss of 50 pips (1%), instead you open a sell position. At this point you have "locked" a 50 pip loss no matter which way the...
Yes of course
BUT he only getīs some chunks of pending non realized loosers in between the winners...
In 10 years of trading, if I would have waited long enough, every position I opened could have been closed with a profit...and I took many many thousands, with a SL..
The right size, and skill,hedging and reopening should work...
You need superb position sizing amongst others...
  • #782
  • May 13, 2012 4:34pm May 13, 2012 4:34pm
Quoting hanover
Well said. However, the vast majority of aspiring traders blow accounts and give up long before they ever find the truth. Martingales, grids and the like are particularly sadistic masters because their recovery mechanisms can keep a trader profitable for several months, giving a false sense of achievement, before the big sting inevitably occurs. I know a martingale-based EA that returned more than 4,200% profit over 14 months and 112 consecutive winning sequences of trades; and then suddenly and unexpectedly caused irretrievable drawdown in less...
Donīt agree
you can be net long and net short in 2 differnet systems at the same time...it needs more brain power...and if youré good....
Up or down, and time plus position size...again, it takes more than hot water to make good spaguetti ...
  • #783
  • May 13, 2012 5:04pm May 13, 2012 5:04pm
Quoting P.Dean
I use the sl the same way Bob the only difference is I trade in the shorter time frame. but i was under impression that you do not use sl period.. i must admit i have not read your stuff (your threads) as i do not read a lot of stuff in ff so no offense. the fact of you using sl now changes things a bit but still the use of wide sl and reliance of recovery tricks dose not change my bias about your trading.

about your previous post.. you say the account was real then.. so ok, i believe you i was not around then and wont help to go read about them...
If you read my material, you will find out what is said about me and what I do is two different things. You have to remember these guys are out to win a debate not represent truth. Even though I have explained the differences in where and why to use certain trading techniques, slander and ridicule is the rule of the day. I trade three different methods, trend trade, range trade and counter trend trades. Each kind of trade uses different methods of trading. I can explain the different ways of trading but in a debate they love to mix everything and try to make it look ludicrous. Straw men arguments are their favorite form of debate. I no longer have any patience or respect for several of these guys. I mean if you if are really honest about it, you would recognize that two trades taken at the same time or days apart or on different accounts or even two different brokers is still two different trades. To argue and debate and call it nedging or what ever is just plain stupid to me. You can argue the wisdom of it but say they are not two different trades is just plain dumb. The wisdom of the trade is in how close it. Anyone can start a trade anywhere on the chart but where you close the trade makes the difference on being a winner or a loser. I see no difference between a successful trader who trades short term or a trader who trades long term. They are both successful and make money. Buy and hold strategies can be just as successful as popping in and out of the market. Anyways I have stated my point and have successfully defended 1+1=2. You can never get around that fact, never.
  • #784
  • May 13, 2012 5:05pm May 13, 2012 5:05pm
[quote=Andy B;5544182]I think the point the non-believers in lock/unlock are missing is that risk is being limited to the locked range

This is not the same as having no SL, far from it

Exactly
the hedger guy just "parks the loss" (unrealized) in the hope the market returns, and by constantly taking profits on the other side...those floaters have a very real chance of becoming winners...or BE...whilst the stop loss is dead money...
The locked range is the similar to a dead stop , but only similar...cause itīs hedged..and alive....
  • #785
  • May 13, 2012 5:36pm May 13, 2012 5:36pm
Quoting nanningbob
If you read my material, you will find out what is said about me and what I do is two different things. You have to remember these guys are out to win a debate not represent truth. Even though I have explained the differences in where and why to use certain trading techniques, slander and ridicule is the rule of the day. .....
Both SL and hedging users can be successful. The thing is those who say hedging cant be successful couldnt do it thats why. I used SL in my trades years before and failed miserably .Checked back i used to have 30% winning trades..so no edge there. But using hedging i dont care about winning rate..i will be concern about making profits then eventually killing the loser..then still be profitable. Not much to celebrate about but 3% per month is acceptable for me. I used a 'stupid' system ..just ema..just turn the whole set of trades into profits. But i couldnt do it if i was trading only one pair... i need 2 pairs in several trades to make up the losses in the initial trade. I remember i hedged a EU -252 pips stinker trade into profit. In the end this trades is still -240 pips in dd, but during the time i booked in 250pips in profit counting the -ve swap using the other two pairs.

Those days trading with stops... i still remember getting struck in 10 losses in a row stopped out..that was in 5min trades trading S&R. Looking back and now i still suck trading with SL. If i want to say the best in strategy utilising SL it has to be the "big dog" strategy breakout or anything similar(session breakout)..thats time proven.
For me , both strategies with SL and hedging does work.But it the end of the day take it with a grain of salt. You chose whatever you wanted to believe.
  • #786
  • May 13, 2012 5:36pm May 13, 2012 5:36pm
Quoting nanningbob
If you read my material, you will find out what is said about me and what I do is two different things. You have to remember these guys are out to win a debate not represent truth. Even though I have explained the differences in where and why to use certain trading techniques, slander and ridicule is the rule of the day. I trade three different methods, trend trade, range trade and counter trend trades. Each kind of trade uses different methods of trading. I can explain the different ways of trading but in a debate they love to mix everything and...
Agree!
so much discussion in a good thread...
I propose the people who hate hedging, should stay away, (or be banned), and let the rest of us learn and improve in a civilized way...and if the "stop guys" are right, well... sooner or later we should be blowing our accounts anyway... so why bother , we will be punished from our "sinfull trading" by the "Forex god" anyway...they should stay away...
Nobody is obliged to agree, or asked to speak...
  • #787
  • Edited 8:52pm May 13, 2012 8:37pm | Edited 8:52pm
Quoting cuchuflito
Agree!
so much discussion in a good thread...
I propose the people who hate hedging, should stay away, (or be banned), and let the rest of us learn and improve in a civilized way...and if the "stop guys" are right, well... sooner or later we should be blowing our accounts anyway... so why bother , we will be punished from our "sinfull trading" by the "Forex god" anyway...they should stay away...
Nobody is obliged to agree, or asked to speak...
I have never masted a hedging strategy. I was interested in it at one point but lost interest when I had a demo account and had 15 hedges going on at one time. I had worked with a guy where we tried to use hedges instead of a SL. I decided that I didnt want to deal with that and stayed with recovery trades and SL. Since I cant hedge here in the USA there is no purpose in me pursuing the strategy. My thoughts at the time was to do just range trades on a BB and then hedge any trades that broke outside the bands. Undo the hedge when they came back in a break the trade back to 0. I dont know if it is doable or not but some of you hedge guys may want to practice the idea. My thoughts were, since the market ranges 70% of the time, I would have a very high win ratio trading both ways and could protect myself during trend runs. That is as far as it every went. The problem in even discussing such strategies is you need your own thread and someone who will block out the anti-hedge one dimensional crowd. I dont know if such a thing would work but it was my only idea that I thought would work. In other words you would never play the trend only the ranges. Hedge the trend and trade the range. God these guys will have a field day with even talking about the idea. I am not going to try to defend the strategy since I can not trade it or even find out if it would work but I offer to the guys who seem to have a handle on such things. The others if they dont like it, so what!! it is the open discussion of a subject that teaches traders whether something works or not. Not the negative harassment. However, I do not believe you will ever get a fair open discussion of the subject in this thread. I really dont have time to pursue it further.

One last thing, I also dont think it would work with high leverage trading because of swap costs but it might work with low leverage/no leverage trading where swap costs become negligible.
  • #788
  • May 13, 2012 11:49pm May 13, 2012 11:49pm
Quoting nanningbob
If you read my material, you will find out what is said about me and what I do is two different things. You have to remember these guys are out to win a debate not represent truth. Even though I have explained the differences in where and why to use certain trading techniques, slander and ridicule is the rule of the day. I trade three different methods, trend trade, range trade and counter trend trades. Each kind of trade uses different methods of trading. I can explain the different ways of trading but in a debate they love to mix everything and...
Bob wouldn't you think that the best way to shut people up is to let your trading do the talking!!.. that's all I am trying to say.. open a explorer my friend and trade it like a champ and in the mean time you sever a more efficient purpose to your "massive" followers.
..debates are never ending in real world, now go figure on a online world.
Bottomline rules in trading.

best of luck trading this week.
  • #789
  • May 13, 2012 11:58pm May 13, 2012 11:58pm
Quoting cuchuflito
Agree!
so much discussion in a good thread...
I propose the people who hate hedging, should stay away, (or be banned), and let the rest of us learn and improve in a civilized way...and if the "stop guys" are right, well... sooner or later we should be blowing our accounts anyway... so why bother , we will be punished from our "sinfull trading" by the "Forex god" anyway...they should stay away...
Nobody is obliged to agree, or asked to speak...
Lets say you and superbandam take a trade......with 1 lot........when do you deside to "hedge" it ???
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #790
  • May 14, 2012 12:02am May 14, 2012 12:02am
Quoting P.Dean
wouldn't you think that the best way to shut ...
Don't know 'bout all that but I do find the following pretty interesting...

Quoting P.Dean
.. i must admit i have not read your stuff (your threads) as i do not read a lot of stuff in ff so no offense. ,
What else can I say ?? maybe pdean shot himself in the foot ?
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #791
  • May 14, 2012 12:12am May 14, 2012 12:12am
Quoting P.Dean
Bob wouldn't you think that the best way to shut people up is to let your trading do the talking!!.. that's all I am trying to say.. open a explorer my friend and trade it like a champ and in the mean time you sever a more efficient purpose to your "massive" followers.
..debates are never ending in real world, now go figure on a online world.
Bottomline rules in trading.

best of luck trading this week.
Some people have different ways of relaxing. When I am doing my copy work on the copy machine at school, it gives me something to do. LOL. Anyway it is trading time now and my time will be spent with school and trading. I was attracted to this thread because I trade the 4H a lot and love to hear what this guy Nacho had to say about trading his system on the 4H. Well, kind of never got around to that. I dont know about massive following but 2600 people did download my booklet in the first 5 days. That is about 500 a day.
  • #792
  • Edited 12:33am May 14, 2012 12:17am | Edited 12:33am
[quote=cuchuflito;5662975]
Quoting Andy B
I think the point the non-believers in lock/unlock are missing is that risk is being limited to the locked range

This is not the same as having no SL, far from it

Exactly
the hedger guy just "parks the loss" (unrealized) in the hope the market returns, and by constantly taking profits on the other side...those floaters have a very real chance of becoming winners...or BE...whilst the stop loss is dead money...
The locked range is the similar to a dead stop , but only similar...cause itīs hedged..and alive....
I advise you to learn how to trade. Floating loses are still losses. Hedging is just a more expensive stop loss.. please educate yourself.

It took me a while to realise that. Any body who is succesfully using hedging, WILL BE MORE SUCCESFULLY if it will be using a stop loss or just not using HEdging.. please give me a succesfully trade using hedge just you just made and I will reply to you with the answer by using stop loss or just closing the positions (avoiding expensive hedge) and still get the same result in pips or more..

I dare you, or anybody who is blinded.. give me any trade or set of trades that you made using hedging and I will show you how you don't have to hedge and still get the same profit, or more... Who is taking my challenge?
  • #793
  • May 14, 2012 12:17am May 14, 2012 12:17am
Quoting lillelise
Lets say you and superbandam take a trade......with 1 lot........when do you deside to "hedge" it ???
just wanna know if its like :

you go long in eurusd with 1 lot..

it goes in drawdown to minus 75 pip ( or any other number )

you short with 1 lot eurusd ????
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #794
  • May 14, 2012 1:19am May 14, 2012 1:19am
Quoting nanningbob
Some people have different ways of relaxing. When I am doing my copy work on the copy machine at school, it gives me something to do. LOL. Anyway it is trading time now and my time will be spent with school and trading. I was attracted to this thread because I trade the 4H a lot and love to hear what this guy Nacho had to say about trading his system on the 4H. Well, kind of never got around to that. I dont know about massive following but 2600 people did download my booklet in the first 5 days. That is about 500 a day.
It is not about this thread or your thread or I or you read each others threads or whatever a heck else in that sort of nature.. it's about showing real profit.. can you be profitable.. if yes.. show it for real with a explorer account, cut and clear.
I am saying that your are not a profitable trader i don't think you ever have been.. if you ever were you would not have any problem taking up on this at least once in this forum.
I got nothing else to say to you Bob, my point is very clear.. i am not into he said she said, debates, conversations or this or that.. can you trade and show profitability!!, that's it.
I know your overall trading philosophy and it is not a winner, does not fit reality, i know it bcz i been around the blocks.. you say it is a winner and you are such and such.. ok fine.. show it.. for someone who produces booklets and such at least is obligated to show real results day in and day out for at least some time.
I highly doubt you will ever do and most likely will respond back to me with something else.. my point has been very clear from the get go and i look forward to it if you ever take up on it.
i don't know what else or how else i can say it.. i am talking competition and reality your responses are off point. i can care or less how many or who respects you or how many thread you got or how many booklets you have sold... can you trade for real brother!!
I know i am wasting my time but its interesting and proves how your beating around the bushes in the eyes of everyone.
anyhow i am done unless you take up on the offer.

best of luck.
  • #795
  • May 14, 2012 1:30am May 14, 2012 1:30am
Quoting P.Dean
It is not about this thread or your thread or I or you read each others threads or whatever a heck else in that sort of nature.. it's about showing real profit.. can you be profitable.. if yes.. show it for real with a explorer account, cut and clear.
I am saying that your are not a profitable trader i don't think you ever have been.. if you ever were you would not have any problem taking up on this at least once in this forum.
I got nothing else to say to you Bob, my point is very clear.. i am not into he said she said, debates, conversations or...
Since I have already spent a year detailing my trades and account, I see no reason to do it again. If I wasnt making money I wouldnt be bothering over the years with this this.
  • #796
  • May 14, 2012 1:33am May 14, 2012 1:33am
Quoting nanningbob

Some people have different ways of relaxing. When I am doing my copy work on the copy machine at school.......blah blah blah

Quoting P.Dean

it's about showing real profit.. can you be profitable.. if yes.. show it for real with a explorer account, cut and clear.
It's extremely unlikely he'll take up your suggestion, he'll find some excuse or other.


Quoting P.Dean

I am saying that your are not a profitable trader i don't think you ever have been.. if you ever were you would not have any problem taking up on this at least once in this forum.
The thing about Bob and others like him is they're trading pennies. If their strategy was viable then they would have scaled up long ago.


Quoting P.Dean

I know i am wasting my time but its interesting how your beating around the bushes in the eye of everyone.
Faced with a direct question or challenge he always blows smoke, it's really all he can do in the circumstances.


-
  • #797
  • May 14, 2012 1:40am May 14, 2012 1:40am
Quoting nanningbob
Since I have already spent a year detailing my trades and account, I see no reason to do it again. If I wasnt making money I wouldnt be bothering over the years with this this.
unreal.. ok that pretty much settles it for me.

"If I wasnt making money I wouldnt be bothering over the years with this this".[/quote]

you seriously think this statement is convincing and sufficient. forget it.

Bob you don't make money.. and it's ok, bcz there is a lot of you 10+v with loads of lectures in here which adds up to nothing.

if the statement above insults any off the 10+v only respond back to me if you take up on the same offer I put up on Bob.

take care i am done here with nonsense.
  • #798
  • May 14, 2012 2:05am May 14, 2012 2:05am
Quoting P.Dean

if the statement above insults any off the 10+v only respond back to me if you take up on the same offer I put up on Bob.
Tell you what, I've got a counter offer for you that will make it worth it for both of us!

Put up $100k and I'll add you on IB as a (UXXXXXX) managed account (Friends&Family) and I'll take 50% of the profits I generate. In addition to that I'll even guarantee to cover 50% of the losses in the event your account is in deficit! We'll make a legally binding agreement as to the terms and conditions so we're both protected and know exactly where we stand.

There, that's a much better idea! Are you up for it?


NB. This offer should not be construed as a solicitation for funds or investors, it is a hypothetical offer only and no suggestion or guarantee of return on investment is expressed or implied.
  • #799
  • May 14, 2012 2:29am May 14, 2012 2:29am
Quoting pipmutt
Tell you what, I've got a counter offer for you that will make it worth it for both of us!

Put up $100k and I'll add you on IB as a (UXXXXXX) managed account (Friends&Family) and I'll take 50% of the profits I generate. In addition to that I'll even guarantee to cover 50% of the losses in the event your account is in deficit! We'll make a legally binding agreement as to the terms and conditions so we're both protected and know exactly where we stand.

There, that's a much better idea! Are you up for it?


NB. This offer...
no its not ideal.. you wanna trade with my money and cover half!!.. you must be joking.

..your going off point here bud.

I want to know in the first place if one is capable of even putting up a small amount such as 5k of his own money and trade it for real as he believes it and preach it.. like Bob has.

Plus, there is no doubt there might be some here that do make money.. if they present them selves like Bob has and i review it and disagree with it then i present the same offer as what i have put on Bob.
so easy there pipmutt.. i hypothetical accept that you are a profitable trader and no interest on you proving yourself.
  • #800
  • May 14, 2012 2:46am May 14, 2012 2:46am
Quoting P.Dean

no its not ideal.. you wanna trade with my money and cover half!!.. you must be joking.
lol, I didn't honestly think you were that gullible but hey it was worth a shot wasn't it, you can't blame a guy for trying!


Quoting P.Dean

..your going off point here bud.

I want to know in the first place if one is capable of even putting up a small amount such as 5k of his own money and trade it for real as he believes it and preach it.. like Bob has.
Yeah I realised that, but I think you'll find they're all trading a couple hundred bucks (some less), they can afford to mess up and it's no big deal. It's not serious trading, it's playing trader. If they had faith in their trading ability and the profitability of their strategy then they would have put up 5k a long time ago, some of them have been trading pennies for years, like you (or someone) said it's hardly enough to pay utility let alone make it worth the time they spend!
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