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How to be successful!!

  • #21
  • May 6, 2012 6:42am May 6, 2012 6:42am
Hello pipmutt and Custos,


I think there are some bad understood.
People need to read post #1 and #4 and understand.

This is just an ficticious example:

Pair eur/usd
Target 10 pips a day
Trading time only 2 hours after US session open
The system only gives me (the maximum) one entry per day, and not everyday.

And in this ficticios example after some improving i got:

I see if i only trade for one hour instead of two i donīt have entries everyday, in this fictitious example only 16 trades in 22 days, but i reduce my losses:

4 losses and 12 wins.
4x –15 = - 60 pips and 12x20 = 240 pips
total = +180 pips a month. (very good results)
But still not 10 pips, but i have now 8 pips a day

So my SL are 15 pips and TP are 20. (When i started it was SL 10 and TP 10) do you understand?!
4 losses - 60 pips
12 wins + 240 pips
total month +180 pips

Iīm not here to post a system, only to trying explain how to be successful giving an example with this ficticious system.
Because a trader dont need 100 or 10 pips a day to be successful, 5 pips or less is enough; it depends what you want.

And if you have more losses than wins, you can be successful to; it depends what you want.

Supose i got a system that gives me 20 entries a month and my SL are 20 pips and my TP are 100 pips and i have 15 losses and only 5 wins:

15 x 20 pips = -300 pips
5 x 100 pips = +500 pips

Thatīs it that iīm trying to explain.

Happiness for you guys.
  • #22
  • May 6, 2012 6:55am May 6, 2012 6:55am
Quoting Please

So my SL are 15 pips and TP are 20. (When i started it was SL 10 and TP 10) do you understand?!
Well yes, a sliding scale of risk:reward and win:lose, is that the revelation here?


Quoting Please

it depends what you want.
Well not really, it depends on what the market offers, it doesn't care so much about what you want.


Quoting Please

Happiness for you guys.
Yes, you too.....
  • #23
  • May 6, 2012 8:29am May 6, 2012 8:29am
Quote
So my SL are 15 pips and TP are 20. (When i started it was SL 10 and TP 10) do you understand?!
4 losses - 60 pips
12 wins + 240 pips
total month +180 pips

i would rather try risking 15 pips for 150 pips

so you only need 3 winners out of 20 trades

to make 195 pips a month

cut your losses, let your profits run
  • #24
  • May 6, 2012 10:21am May 6, 2012 10:21am
Quoting calamardo

Position sizing and money management is not an edge. there is no doubt about that at all!

Correct, so much focus on MM and position size but end of the day if you can't trade profitably MM will only help you to lose money slower.

Losing money slowly at a affordable rate, works out better for the big banks and the like than losing big money once I guess.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #25
  • May 6, 2012 10:40am May 6, 2012 10:40am
Quoting Turveyd
Correct, so much focus on MM and position size but end of the day if you can't trade profitably MM will only help you to lose money slower.

Losing money slowly at a affordable rate, works out better for the big banks and the like than losing big money once I guess.

Yes. You are right! The only way we could do is try to reduce the underlying risk as much as possible. MM is just a alternative solution to manage our trades since this is under our control. But frankly speaking, it could offset the probability trade rate such as risk to rewards ratio 1:2 ,probability lose to win ratio 2:1. In the end, you earn nothing due to breakeven.
  • #26
  • May 6, 2012 10:47am May 6, 2012 10:47am
Quoting Fx2ProTrader
Yes. You are right! The only way we could do is try to reduce the underlying risk as much as possible. MM is just a alternative solution to manage our trades since this is under our control. But frankly speaking, it could offset the probability trade rate such as risk to rewards ratio 1:2 ,probability lose to win ratio 2:1. In the end, you earn nothing due to breakeven.

Reducing the underlying reduce directly reduces the profit, if your trading well and profitably you don't need to trade at 1%, 3 - 5% should be fine which means for the same time you make and lose 3-5x's more money, but still 3-5x's more profit, for a increased risk in having a bad week and account death which is hopefully unlikely if your trading well.

It's the easiest thing to work out, it's not rocket science, but its the most discussed topic on here.

Setups which have a high probability of working is what needs discussing and sharing, preferably 1's where you risk very little but stand a good chance of making much more than you risk. ( which is what I've spent the day working on )
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #27
  • May 6, 2012 12:14pm May 6, 2012 12:14pm
Quoting Turveyd

Reducing the underlying reduce directly reduces the profit
Reducing risk doesn't automatically mean reducing profit, think out of the box for a minute or two.


Quoting Turveyd

, if your trading well and profitably you don't need to trade at 1%, 3 - 5% should be fine which means for the same time you make and lose 3-5x's more money, but still 3-5x's more profit, for a increased risk in having a bad week and account death which is hopefully unlikely if your trading well.
'Hope'? Really, hope plays a part in your trading?


Quoting Turveyd

Setups which have a high probability of working is what needs discussing and sharing, preferably 1's where you risk very little but stand a good chance of making much more than you risk. ( which is what I've spent the day working on )
And what have you come up with? What were you focussing on, technical analysis? Money and trade management? Other?
  • #28
  • May 6, 2012 12:26pm May 6, 2012 12:26pm
Quoting Turveyd
Reducing the underlying reduce directly reduces the profit, if your trading well and profitably you don't need to trade at 1%, 3 - 5% should be fine which means for the same time you make and lose 3-5x's more money, but still 3-5x's more profit, for a increased risk in having a bad week and account death which is hopefully unlikely if your trading well.

As pipmutt mention, reduce risk doesn't reduce profit because you could lock the profit or not set the tight stop to provide more opportunity for target. This requires to do an analysis and calculation for the setting.
  • #29
  • May 6, 2012 2:03pm May 6, 2012 2:03pm
The banter here has got a little wide of the original theme, I feel.
This is a good example of how to analyse a system to see if it is worth pursuing, and if the ficticious example results were true then this a workable system with a predictable return. What else could you ask for...?

Quoting Please
Hello my friends, let's continue ... this fictitious example.

...

Trade only US session opening, in the 1m chart and just for 2 hours, using one indicator sma100 and a ratio 1:1 so SL 10 pips and TP 10 pips.
[color=black][size=3][font=Times New Roman]My entry point for sell is when the price crosses from up to down the sma100 and the next candle open below the sma,...
@Please, I was thinking for a while that this has MM built-in, but it does not. However it is simple to add by specifying for example that 10-pips = 1% of account value (a whole other subject to discuss).

Thanks for the alignment of thinking.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #30
  • May 6, 2012 5:15pm May 6, 2012 5:15pm
Quoting pipmutt
Reducing risk doesn't automatically mean reducing profit, think out of the box for a minute or two.




'Hope'? Really, hope plays a part in your trading?




And what have you come up with? What were you focussing on, technical analysis? Money and trade management? Other?
Yeah okay, you can go really small SL, huge ish lot size and huge R:R ratio, with the right SETUP, it's all about the setup. Which has been my focus for the weekend.


"Hope" is the mind killer ( might be fear to ), I don't believe in hope or luck or any other form of BS you shoulda worked that out already.


Balaclava + Sawn of Shot Gun + Bank, excellent R:R but if it hits the SL my soap will require a rope!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #31
  • May 7, 2012 4:42am May 7, 2012 4:42am
Quoting Turveyd

Yeah okay, you can go really small SL, huge ish lot size and huge R:R ratio, with the right SETUP, it's all about the setup.
The setup isn't really that important, it's what you do with the trade which separates the consistently profitable traders from the overall losers.

You're trying to devise ways to improve your analysis, have a better entry and therefore a tighter stop so you can increase trade size, and increase R:R so you can make more money. That's what you want, but the market has a funny habit of doing it's own thing regardless of what you want. Try accepting and exploiting what the market freely offers rather than trying to take from it, it's easier and more productive.

Imagine a trade where your stop is placed at a strategic level, minimised and defined risk on entry, and maximising profit depending on how the market plays out. You're thinking of R:R in pips, ie 50 pip stop - 100 pip reward, try including dollar percentage terms into the equation, clue: scaling and compounding.


Quoting Turveyd

"Hope" is the mind killer ( might be fear to ), I don't believe in hope or luck or any other form of BS you shoulda worked that out already.
It was this comment of yours which threw me....."for a increased risk in having a bad week and account death which is hopefully unlikely".


Quoting Turveyd

Balaclava + Sawn of Shot Gun + Bank, excellent R:R but if it hits the SL my soap will require a rope!!
lol, definitely! Mind you if it's for a few million and you can stash the cash it's not a bad income for a few years with your feet up watching daytime TV, trouble is they seize assets now.....
  • #32
  • May 7, 2012 5:00am May 7, 2012 5:00am
Quoting pipmutt
The setup isn't really that important, it's what you do with the trade which separates the consistently profitable traders from the overall losers.

You're trying to devise ways to improve your analysis, have a better entry and therefore a tighter stop so you can increase trade size, and increase R:R so you can make more money. That's what you want, but the market has a funny habit of doing it's own thing regardless of what you want. Try accepting and exploiting what the market freely offers rather than trying to take from...
I disagree, it's all about setup/entry and the tighter the SL you try to use the more the setup becomes important.

Then its all about the exit, preferably positive the more positive the better.

Setups and Market timing put you in a position with a higher probability of making a getting a bigger move for a smaller SL

I could do with a few years off, it would have to be enough to move somewhere nice and retire off, not the normal chav rob Ģ20 and spend Ģ30 in fuel just doing it.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #33
  • May 7, 2012 5:22am May 7, 2012 5:22am
Quoting Turveyd

I disagree, it's all about setup/entry and the tighter the SL you try to use the more the setup becomes important.
lol, right, exactly! So you're having to focus on the same thing as 90% of people here do, you're trying to devise more accurate analysis/indicators/systems to anticipate what the market will do rather than accepting and exploiting what the market actually does do and the profit potential it freely offers! To my mind you're making work for yourself, and what's more it's not producing the desired results for you.


Quoting Turveyd

Then its all about the exit, preferably positive the more positive the better.

Setups and Market timing put you in a position with a higher probability of making a getting a bigger move for a smaller SL
Ok I can see it's going to be pointless pursuing this any further, your tunnel vision is preventing your advancement.......
  • #34
  • May 7, 2012 5:33am May 7, 2012 5:33am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, right, exactly! So you're having to focus on the same thing as 90% of people here do, you're trying to devise more accurate analysis/indicators/systems to anticipate what the market will do rather than accepting and exploiting what the market actually does do and the profit potential it freely offers! To my mind you're making work for yourself, and what's more it's not producing the desired results for you.




Ok I can see it's going to be pointless pursuing this any further, your tunnel vision is preventing your advancement.......

I've got quite a good method, tested and back testing wise proved, using it live is tricky mainly cause of I'm never around when it's worth trading it.

I prefered my previous swing tradey method, next to no losers but market conditions changed and it died the death.

My required profits need to be in the 50%+ at first per month, here is no point me trying to come up with a 12% per year plan, it won't pay the bills any time soon.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #35
  • May 7, 2012 5:56am May 7, 2012 5:56am
Quoting pipmutt
...
To my mind you're making work for yourself, and what's more it's not producing the desired results for you.
...
Excuse the butt-in, but is there a thread where your philosophy for trading can be absorbed.
It would be nice to have another perspective, thx.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #36
  • May 7, 2012 6:49am May 7, 2012 6:49am
Quoting Exodus

Excuse the butt-in, but is there a thread where your philosophy for trading can be absorbed.
It would be nice to have another perspective, thx.
I think a thread would be overkill, it's a very simple easy to understand concept and to be honest is the essence of 'trading'.

Attempting to discover and tweak systems and indicators to try and pinpoint entry and more accurately predict price direction and target is a somewhat futile exercise as many will testify from experience. Minimising risk and maximising gain, despite being fairly obvious goals, will continue to elude those who insist on looking in the wrong direction, a major contributing factor in the failure stats no doubt!

As Soros so succinctly put it...."It's not whether you're right or wrong that's important, but how much money you make when you're right and how much you lose when you're wrong.". That quote alone should at least provide food for thought and highlight what is important.
  • #37
  • May 7, 2012 7:02am May 7, 2012 7:02am
Quoting pipmutt
I think a thread would be overkill, it's a very simple easy to understand concept and to be honest is the essence of 'trading'.

Attempting to discover and tweak systems and indicators to try and pinpoint entry and more accurately predict price direction and target is a somewhat futile exercise as many will testify from experience. Minimising risk and maximising gain, despite being fairly obvious goals, will continue to elude those who insist on looking in the wrong direction, a major contributing factor in the failure stats no doubt!

As Soros...

Have you not read my said many times " you can't predict, you can just go with the flow and see what happens " ??

I never ever run TP's so I have no fixed R:R goal. even putting trailing SL's back into the mix to reduce the cost to further increase the R:R.

I like to take trades, where I have a initial risk of 15 which could go say 60pips so R:R 4:1, if they go 6pips and look like there going to turn I'll take it ( just took +6 on GU doing just this )


I think you don't realise it, but your preaching to the quire here.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #38
  • May 7, 2012 7:09am May 7, 2012 7:09am
Quoting Turveyd

I think you don't realise it, but your preaching to the quire here.
I'm not preaching to anyone, least of all a pile of paper (although the IQ of some forum participants could well be similar!)
  • #39
  • May 7, 2012 7:13am May 7, 2012 7:13am
Quoting pipmutt
I'm not preaching to anyone, least of all a pile of paper (although the IQ of some forum participants could well be similar!)

It comes over that way.


Wrong kinda quire I guess, all the spell checker came up with, not being a church goer dunno the spelling to, you now the 1's the priests like to fiddle with.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #40
  • May 7, 2012 9:38am May 7, 2012 9:38am
Hello Pipmutt, (sorry for my bad english)

Well yes, a sliding scale of risk:reward and win:lose, is that the revelation here?

Iīm not here to reveal nothing because i donīt have a secret, iīm here to explain the procedure to be consistent and successful; itīs only a procedure not a secret.

The procedure is in #1 post:

- Need to chose a pair (of course you need to study the currencies)
- The amount of pips (of course you need to study the market)
- Build a system (of course you need to understand all the instruments that you use to build a system)
- Test the system (of course you need to study the behavior of the market )
- Manage your money (of course you need learn to protect your money)

This is a very simple and basic procedure, but almost every person fail in one or two.
Build a system that fits to her personality and needs and money management.



Well not really, it depends on what the market offers, it doesn't care so much about what you want.

The market offers you what you want.
Itīs you and me, that we need to adjust to the market.

(Depends what you want and the way to do it)
If you want 10 pips in the market he gives you.
If you want 100 pips in the market he gives you.
If you want 500 pips in the market he gives you.


Happiness for you.
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