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95% failure rate?

  • #81
  • Mar 22, 2012 9:27am Mar 22, 2012 9:27am
Let's suppose that brokers are absolutely neutral. Then, when those who trade long lose, those who trade short should win. If the two groups of traders are statistically even, after paying brokers transaction fees, there should be more losers than winners. But if only 5% or less traders are profitable, the true winners are brokers. They take most of the losers' loss as transaction fees.

True or false?
  • #82
  • Mar 22, 2012 2:09pm Mar 22, 2012 2:09pm
Quoting ism
Let's suppose that brokers are absolutely neutral. Then, when those who trade long lose, those who trade short should win. If the two groups of traders are statistically even, after paying brokers transaction fees, there should be more losers than winners. But if only 5% or less traders are profitable, the true winners are brokers. They take most of the losers' loss as transaction fees.

True or false?
Don't understand your argument. They don't take part in trading, they just earn commissions. How can a losing trade of an amateur trader be a profit for a broker? So you think when you lose a 1000 bucks in the market, then most of that loss goes directly into the broker's account?

Ridiculous assumption.
  • #83
  • Edited 2:31am Mar 23, 2012 12:20am | Edited 2:31am
Quoting Custos
Don't understand your argument. They don't take part in trading, they just earn commissions. How can a losing trade of an amateur trader be a profit for a broker? So you think when you lose a 1000 bucks in the market, then most of that loss goes directly into the broker's account?

Ridiculous assumption.
1. I just tried to think about this question another way. It's not necessary to call it an argument.

2. I ask if it is true or false. You better reply to this question, and if you like, you can prove.

3. There are so many things that we can't understand. But they still could be true.

4. When you don't understand, you can argue or ask, not ridicule.

5. Every trade, either losing or winning, could be a profit for the broker. You don't even know that?

6. The brokers do not take most of your loss in one trade. But when you trade more and more, they do take more and more.

7. We are talking about failed traders, not one losing trade. A failed trader is not defined by one losing trade. You can lose 1000 bucks today and win 2000 tomorrow.

8. So many people have talked about this topic. But I haven't seen any broker that could come to prove with evidence, though they all have hard evidence on hand. When they keep silent on this, why do they cry so loud to attract new traders?

9. We can continue discussing on whether or not the brokers take the most of the loss. But we can be sure that there are more failed traders than profitable traders because
a) more traders have small accounts b) those who have small accounts are more likely to fail c) brokers bite off the sum on the market.

Good luck!
  • #84
  • Mar 23, 2012 5:33pm Mar 23, 2012 5:33pm
Quoting bfis108137
I believe there is a 95% failure rate but it depends on how you define failure. Doe it include those that tried it for one day and then quit? Does it include those that put $100 into a micro account and lost it in one day and then quit? I would say that people that treat this the right way usually succeed. Most people will say this is "Treat it like a business". I must say that I completely disagree with this line of thought because it's not a business. You aren't going to lose your business if you go on vacation even for a year. What do...
A lot of hard work. This is what we have become? We live in Air Conditioning year around, sit with a laptop, with a cup of coffee and a jelly donut and we read. Last I looked reading doesn't burn calories and certainly isn't hard work. I don't believe in the 95% chatter. Too bad we have to read so much about nothing but how do we know what's relevant and what isn't. Most starters get lost in a World of systems and indicators that would overwhelm Einstein.

It's the Forums and Teachers and Peddlers who are not honest and lure in the weak and lazy. Well not all of them. First of all not one person has to lose a dime. All they have to do is trade with a practice account and they will see for themselves how they are doing and if they are ready for real time. A wise man once said *there's one born every minute* meaning a sucker. Even if a sucker stumbles on a good system they will find a way to screw it up. Notice also a new System pops up on a Forum that looks workable. In 30-60 days the owner doesn't recognize what the indicator peddlers have added to it.

I will never tell anyone how to trade. It's right there in on your screen with one of the top 4 Pairs. First if one isn't organized in his personal life and practices common sense don't trade. Go blow up balloons in a Mall somewhere. Or befriend someone who knows how to trade and pay him to trade for you.
  • #85
  • Mar 23, 2012 5:45pm Mar 23, 2012 5:45pm
Quoting dforant1

Most starters get lost in a World of systems and indicators

It's the Forums and Teachers and Peddlers who are not honest and lure in the weak and lazy.

Even if a sucker stumbles on a good system they will find a way to screw it up
That about sums it up!
  • #86
  • Mar 24, 2012 10:34am Mar 24, 2012 10:34am
nice discussion my fellow 95percenters....
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #87
  • Mar 27, 2012 11:18am Mar 27, 2012 11:18am
Quoting Obaidah
guys the game is much more simplier! human = greed and that wont work here, before its a technical or fundamental factors, its a money management factor, if i were to make 7 bad trades per 10 traders where i lose only 30 pip in those 7 trades and win 75 pip in those 3 trades, i'll be making money!

we "traders" are the ones who move the market, 95% of traders are the real movers of the market, not the left 5%, but its just a MONEY MANAGEMENT!!

hope that helps
I totally agree.
  • #88
  • Apr 27, 2012 12:13pm Apr 27, 2012 12:13pm
Quoting w1llariza
Well, I'm kind of late to the discussion but this topic never will lose its actuality.
The following text it was taken from the BabyPips's forum and it seems pretty legit. Here it is:
"A class action lawsuit took place about 8 years ago against a broker who provided access to futures markets, including forex futures.

They found that 88% of their traders who used this particular brokerage lost money after 1 year of opening an account.

that leaves 12% profitable... but remember, the definition of profitable is having at least one penny more in...
So day trading is not the answer? I mean there has to be at least a few that can make money day trading. That VP saying "none" is just absurd...
  • #89
  • May 1, 2012 3:46am May 1, 2012 3:46am
Quoting Avarice3000
So day trading is not the answer? I mean there has to be at least a few that can make money day trading. That VP saying "none" is just absurd...
There are, however the shorter the term, the more solid your knowledge has to be. The luxury of an average over a longer period will filter out volatile price actions that might only affect the typical day trader.
  • #90
  • May 1, 2012 5:44am May 1, 2012 5:44am
Quoting Mioles
Is it a statistical fact the 95% of all traders fail in this business, or is this just some myth made up by some company trying scare you into buying their product?

Also if 95% do fail and FF makes up a small population of traders in the world, then would that make only a hand full of us here successful?

Correct me in advanced if I am wrong I would just like to disprove this myth if in fact it is, thanks….

Happy Trading
Is it really true? im afraid not..
  • #91
  • May 2, 2012 6:39am May 2, 2012 6:39am
I think it's true but lets not forget the fact that they want to scare us also..
  • #92
  • May 6, 2012 12:53pm May 6, 2012 12:53pm
The simple reason is because people try to 'beat' the system instead of working with it. See my many posts elsewhere about this
  • #93
  • Jun 28, 2012 5:05am Jun 28, 2012 5:05am
Quoting reynuevo
I think it's true but lets not forget the fact that they want to scare us also..
Who wants to scare us? Forum admins?
  • #94
  • Jun 28, 2012 5:08am Jun 28, 2012 5:08am
Quoting Mioles
Is it a statistical fact the 95% of all traders fail in this business, or is this just some myth made up by some company trying scare you into buying their product?

Also if 95% do fail and FF makes up a small population of traders in the world, then would that make only a hand full of us here successful?

Correct me in advanced if I am wrong I would just like to disprove this myth if in fact it is, thanks….

Happy Trading
I think it's exaggeration that 95 % of traders fail.

Happy trading u too!
  • #95
  • Jun 28, 2012 5:48am Jun 28, 2012 5:48am
Quoting leopard31
I think it's exaggeration that 95 % of traders fail.

Happy trading u too!

Because you are hoping now and you got scared off when seeing the number 95%. You want to see some positive statement rather than this dreadful number because you want to make into the minority.

  • #96
  • Jun 28, 2012 7:46am Jun 28, 2012 7:46am
I reckon the figure in reality may actually be much higher.

Saying 95% fail, means that 5% win, or that 1 in 20 aspiring traders end up making a living out of it...1 person out of every 20 newbs seems high to me.

I speculate the actual failure rate to be 97.5-99%, which is 1 in 40 to 1 in 100 people.
  • #97
  • Jul 13, 2014 2:10pm Jul 13, 2014 2:10pm
After a few years of studying, and wreaking accounts I have came to the conclusion (whether you think that 95% of traders lose or not) that it is the trader themselves that fail due to lack of experience. For me personally (while I am still learning) wasted those beginning years on predatory so called teachers/gurus, scams and indicators. Ugh people warned me about those things BUT, unfortunate I was one of those traders that got most of their education on a forum and did not listen ;/

P.S. I don't see a lot the people that posted on this thread anymore...yikes I hope you all didn't become part of the 95 (rofl joking) or all rich.
  • #98
  • May 30, 2016 6:48pm May 30, 2016 6:48pm
Quoting Dopey
Another part of this is the low-entry barrier to trading. If you wanted to be a lawyer or doctor and eventually make a 6 figure income every year, you have to pass a slew of gatekeepers beginning with your first four years of university. Then law or medical school gatekeepers ensure that only those that are academically suited enter the the school. Then during your years in the school, their are numerous tests that judge your emotional abilities to handle the job along with your intelligence. Once you finish school, you know have to pass another...
Got some insights,
Thanks for sharing!
shunfengcn
The candle pattern is the signal, the inevitability behind it is the key.
  • #99
  • Jun 28, 2016 12:52pm Jun 28, 2016 12:52pm
http://www.forexseriously.com/90-new...-traders-fail/

Here's a post that explains why 90% of new forex traders fail.
  • #100
  • Jun 29, 2016 3:03am Jun 29, 2016 3:03am
Quoting Mioles
After a few years of studying, and wreaking accounts I have came to the conclusion (whether you think that 95% of traders lose or not) that it is the trader themselves that fail due to lack of experience. For me personally (while I am still learning) wasted those beginning years on predatory so called teachers/gurus, scams and indicators. Ugh people warned me about those things BUT, unfortunate I was one of those traders that got most of their education on a forum and did not listen ;/ P.S. I don't see a lot the people that posted on this thread...
I've had similar experiences. The truth is, as a trader you can only rely on yourself to educate yourself, rather than other people to teach you.
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