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  • #1,541
  • May 1, 2012 3:20pm May 1, 2012 3:20pm
Quoting the redlion
oh ok...

an ad hominem.

you have nothing of value to offer.

I listed many different medical titles that can easily give you 10k to play with in the US.

I will again reply to you when you have something remotely intelligent to contribute.
ask mommy
  • #1,542
  • May 1, 2012 3:21pm May 1, 2012 3:21pm
Steve W from No Brainer Trades said most traders find 1 trade that really works for them... maybe it's just a case of finding that one trade?
tradewith60
  • #1,543
  • May 1, 2012 3:22pm May 1, 2012 3:22pm
Quoting 60minuteman
... look at those daily and weekly charts... put the s/r lines down... use the simple price action triggers that have been around forever..

if you want to read about anything, make it psychology and money management
I am well aware of S/R or S/D levels, psychology is not my issue and risk management or money management is pretty straight forward or it can get very elaborate with risk models and derivatives to offset the position.

S/R is past historical areas where price has stalled and turned, some sort of volatility reading, yet it is not very reliable.

lucky streaks are not unheard of, i have experienced them myself.

here is where I am coming from

using a simple concept of TA, (Let's ignore, macro economics and valuations)

comes down to positions that can easily be .5 probability of success or less and attempting to make more money on average when right and lose less when wrong.

can this really be consistent and is this the product of skill? or merely the conditions at given point of opening the trade, where LUCKILY no big orders where transacted against you.

I am sorry but if you are going to take this business seriously it has to be more than luck.

and if it is so easy, then again why do we have people failing? (you mentioned , psychology and money management, that is not always the problem)
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #1,544
  • May 1, 2012 3:25pm May 1, 2012 3:25pm
Well, a conversation would be people listening to each other and reflecting to each other's thoughts, intermittent questions. But that's more EQ than IQ I guess.

Bottom line - yeah, I agree, trading is not easy. But what is in life anyway? Ah, this is NOT a real question, just a rhetorical one.

Quoting the redlion
not interested in red herrings.

my position is that trading is difficult, that is all.
it could possibly only difficult for me, and just because i find it so does not mean some one else cannot find it easy. I understand those arguments.

but on the whole is finding inefficiencies in the market and profiting from them easy or difficult?
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #1,545
  • May 1, 2012 3:25pm May 1, 2012 3:25pm
Quoting 60minuteman
I can churn days out like this over and over just trading 1 simple idea... whilst trading my live account alongside it...

don't give a shit if people want to flame and say scammer, photoshop, whatever... you pick a day of the week and i will post a trade report..

I know nothing about market flow, big banks, big boys etc etc... just putting lines down, waiting for 2 or 3 price action triggers, then some simple money management...

If you want to know something hard, try being a chef and paying your bills for 20 years in the UK,...
You could open a letter from your broker, in front of them, and they would say you rigged it somehow.

From what I understand about the UK, almost no matter what your profession is, it's hard to pay your bills.
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,546
  • May 1, 2012 3:26pm May 1, 2012 3:26pm
Quoting pipmutt
Oh yes that's right, how could I forget!

Well the same replies apply, as do yours probably, so this conversation seems a bit pointless if it's going to repeat what has already been said.



I'd compare it to driving, swimming, riding a bike.....difficult to master but pretty much second nature once one has. Probably not a great analogy but it's all I could think of at short notice!

What area of the medical field are you in?
honestly I do not like to divulge about my private life too much, sometimes people hold me to a higher standard and I find myself uncomfortable as I cannot act so unprofessional or asshole like.

then when i feel like being stupid people again begin to question me as I should know better.

but for your curiosity I specialize in the area of geriatric medicine.
again I am not stating my title.

I do like the freedom of being an ass, unprofessional, and make stupid statements at times.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #1,547
  • May 1, 2012 3:28pm May 1, 2012 3:28pm
Quoting the redlion
I am well aware of S/R or S/D levels, psychology is not my issue and risk management or money management is pretty straight forward or it can get very elaborate with risk models and derivatives to offset the position.

S/R is past historical areas where price has stalled and turned, some sort of volatility reading, yet it is not very reliable.

lucky streaks are not unheard of, i have experienced them myself.

here is where I am coming from

using a simple concept of TA, (Let's ignore, macro economics and valuations)

comes down to positions that...
its not random or luck, look at where UJ stopped today... its right before your eyes!
tradewith60
  • #1,548
  • May 1, 2012 3:28pm May 1, 2012 3:28pm
Quoting pipmutt
Difficult for sure, but thinking it requires a complex solution isn't necessarily the answer, in fact quite the opposite!

Yes, true. But, it does not become the exact opposite until after one puts in the hard work, study, research, testing, development and design to make it so. That's the strange reality of becoming consistently profitable. The vast majority of consistently profitable traders (I might venture to guess), got that way after doing all the hard work.

Or, you can buy a method, system, strategy or tactic, and never understand why it fails, when it fails, or how to enhance it one way or another.

Or, you can try to money manage your way there which does have its place in trading, only to find out that at some point, you really do need more accuracy.

There's no college degree to prepare one for such a career, and it does not become obvious how to do this right, until a lot of time, energy and effort gets expended, finding out what does not work and why.
The Event Horizon
  • #1,549
  • May 1, 2012 3:32pm May 1, 2012 3:32pm
Quoting the redlion
honestly I do not like to divulge about my private life too much, sometimes people hold me to a higher standard and I find myself uncomfortable as I cannot act so unprofessional or asshole like.

then when i feel like being stupid people again begin to question me as I should know better.

but for your curiosity I specialize in the area of geriatric medicine.
again I am not stating my title.

I do like the freedom of being an ass, unprofessional, and make stupid statements at times.
The point being, you think you are cleverer than you actually are.

Mummy told you so
  • #1,550
  • May 1, 2012 3:32pm May 1, 2012 3:32pm
Quoting the redlion

but for your curiosity I specialize in the area of geriatric medicine.
It wasn't so much out of curiosity, I was going to try and find a comparison in your particular field, the time and effort it took you to learn, how difficult you found it to master, and now that you have how easy you find it to apply.
  • #1,551
  • May 1, 2012 3:33pm May 1, 2012 3:33pm
Quoting iDouble
Yes, true. But, it does not become the exact opposite until after one puts in the hard work, study, research, testing, development and design to make it so. That's the strange reality of becoming consistently profitable. The vast majority of consistently profitable traders (I might venture to guess), got that way after doing all the hard work.

Or, you can buy a method, system, strategy or tactic, and never understand why it fails, when it fails, or how to enhance it one way or another.

Or, you can try to money manage your way there which...
exactly.. so pip mutt if a trader finds it easy after putting in the hard work is akin to an physicist, or Phd in any field to being proficient, and good at what he does.

that in no way shape or form makes his field EASY.

and stating that trading can be easy, even taxi cab drivers can do it, is a very misleading statement.

I am aware you did not in fact made this exact statement but you have implied that being a consistently profitable trader is "easy"
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #1,552
  • May 1, 2012 3:37pm May 1, 2012 3:37pm
Quoting saussiche
You should make a thread about this.

I used to do that, but got booted off forums for speaking my mind about trading ideas.

It was like those forums wanted people to be consistent losers.
The Event Horizon
  • #1,553
  • May 1, 2012 3:38pm May 1, 2012 3:38pm
Quoting the redlion
exactly.. so pip mutt if a trader finds it easy after putting in the hard work is akin to an physicist, or Phd in any field to being proficient, and good at what he does.

that in no way shape or form makes his field EASY.

and stating that trading can be easy, even taxi cab drivers can do it, is a very misleading statement.

I am aware you did not in fact made this exact statement but you have implied that being a consistently profitable trader is "easy"

I did have ( and say already ) thats your a prime example of someone with a much to high IQ.

It's easy when you know, how as is everything
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,554
  • May 1, 2012 3:38pm May 1, 2012 3:38pm
Quoting pipmutt
It wasn't so much out of curiosity, I was going to try and find a comparison in your particular field, the time and effort it took you to learn, how difficult you found it to master, and now that you have how easy you find it apply.
so then trading is extremely difficult

and you have agreed with me all along.


So people reading our arguments have to understand that, and stop believing that it is easy. The notion that we can somehow learn to trade with simple strategies and be consistent is a fallacy.

then we must re enforce the importance of applying the scientific method to their pre conceived strategies, methodologies, etc.

encourage them to do research, statistics, and understand all aspects of their system and the market they are trading in.

that would be a lot more beneficial than chest pounding, ego boosting, bashing, and misleading them into thinking how easy it is......they just don't get it.

this you are guilty of.

now do not think I am trying to attack you in anyway, I in fact agree with your views when you do post them clearly....and apparently you seem to be in agreement with me most of the time.

but it is an honest observation.
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
  • #1,555
  • Edited 4:01pm May 1, 2012 3:46pm | Edited 4:01pm
Quoting jag1966
Point taken, but the time spent studying them was utterly wasted once I realised monthly weekly TA pisses all over them and utterly negates any need to try to second guess the market. Just MHO based on years of research.

The other reason I keep on bashing it is that I so wish somebody had told me FA was a waste of time years ago, well actually they did and like tit I ignored their advice.
Ok fair comment but I think people try and understand too much. There are only 2-3 major economic drivers to watch for at any one time to gain overall sentiment of the major currencies and then just monitor them in relation to the risk aversion currencies and the risk appetite currencies and the way capital flows between them. You don't need to understand it all in detail.

Problem is many noobs don't set out to start to understand fundies. Take FF calender for example and compare it to the calender at Zero Hedge. FF misses all the important statements by key individuals that for example, set interest rates. FF and other 'retail' sites will only list when the interest rate anouncement is set, but the market had already priced in this information, based upon previous statements by these key economic figures.
  • #1,556
  • May 1, 2012 3:47pm May 1, 2012 3:47pm
Quoting diceman555
...
ive been consistently profitable for some time from these simple observations,...

Consistently profitable over what consistently, continuous time interval?

That's the thing that people who claim its really easy never seem to define. Profitability over what time interval? That's the question.

I outlined why this is important to understand in my first post. An Inter-Day Trader, has no choice but to be profitable by EOD! The Intra-Day Trader, can declare profitability after X number of days. The Swing Trader, can declare profitability anywhere from between 2 days, out to as much as 4 weeks. The Position Trader, can declare profitability from 2 Weeks, out to 3 months. The Investor, never has to claim profitability, because they can hold almost indefinitely, and simply say that they are still waiting for the market to turn in their favor.

So, before anyone can say they are "profitable," they have to establish what type of trader they are, as that determines the event horizon for realizing profits, which in turn determines the time frame in which they need to be profitable, which in turn determines the type and kind of tools they will use to make trading decisions, which in turns has everything to do with their level of knowledge and understanding about the tools that they use.

And, all of that, brings you right back to square one: Building tools that you know and can trust.

There is no escape from this reality, for the consistently profitable trader.
The Event Horizon
  • #1,557
  • May 1, 2012 3:49pm May 1, 2012 3:49pm
Quoting Dopey
I think I've spotted one.
I'm sure I've found yet another one, too.
The Event Horizon
  • #1,558
  • May 1, 2012 3:54pm May 1, 2012 3:54pm
Quoting Porkpie
Ok fair comment but I think people try and understand too much. There are only 2-3 major economic drivers to watch for at any one time to gain overall sentiment of the major currencies and then just monitor them in relation to the risk aversion currencies and the risk appetite currencies and the way capital flows between them. You don't need to understand it all in detail.
I agree, we are on the same page, i watch interest announcements and nfp, if they are contra trend I cash in, stay with trend.
  • #1,559
  • May 1, 2012 3:56pm May 1, 2012 3:56pm
Quoting the redlion

The notion that we can somehow learn to trade with simple strategies and be consistent is a fallacy.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Simple strategies can be extremely productive, especially for people trying to learn how to trade it's the simpler, the better.


Quoting the redlion

encourage them to do research, statistics, and understand all aspects of their system and the market they are trading in.
Unnecessary, perhaps interesting but not prerequisite. Going back to learning to drive a car, do I need to know every detail about it's manufacture, it's components, the internal workings of the combustion engine? No, I just need to know how to drive safely, concentrating on unnecessary details detracts my focus from the job in hand. Later, once I'm proficient and find driving 'easy', I can expand my knowledge if I really want to.

Perhaps you need to separate the two components, the market (the car), and trading (driving).
  • #1,560
  • May 1, 2012 4:03pm May 1, 2012 4:03pm
Quoting pipmutt
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Simple strategies can be extremely productive, especially for people trying to learn how to trade it's the simpler, the better.




Unnecessary, perhaps interesting but not prerequisite. Going back to learning to drive a car, do I need to know every detail about it's manufacture, it's components, the internal workings of the combustion engine? No, I just need to know how to drive safely, concentrating on unnecessary details detracts my focus from the job in hand. Later, once I'm proficient and find driving...
what is the statistics of people FAILING to learn to drive a car and people FAILING to be consistently profitable?

is it a valid comparison?

you said inter bank losing money, and big specs losing money is not a fair comparison due to the size of the portfolio, however i dare to question... if professional traders with big purchasing power fail.. one example UBS losing 2 billion in one trade. How does a simple strategy make a small spec consistently profitable.


and again....you continue to run away from the direct questions.

how do you trade?
and how do you manage risk?
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
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