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  • #1,301
  • Apr 29, 2012 8:58am Apr 29, 2012 8:58am
Quoting the redlion

YOU MUST average up to maximize profit as well.

and you MUST maintain positive expectation.
Of course, gains have to cover losses as well as produce profit, an elementary detail which is dismissed by the typical 'averager' as unimportant, the stats, basic math, and basic common sense don't count apparently and don't apply to them! The comfort for them is having winning trades, period, the basic math isn't even a consideration simply because it's too painful to accept the 'back to the drawing board' reality.

Unfortunately Turveyd is a classic example, he's proud of his win:lose but fails to address or even acknowledge the inevitable, despite having experienced several times first hand the cycle of multiple gains followed by a couple of losses which wipe out => those previous gains!

Burning the candle at both ends isn't an option, something has to give.

Quoting Turveyd

The ownly downside is when you get position #1 in and thats it takes off, you wished it would of filled more positions to double / triple your profit.

Quoting Turveyd

not cashing in unfortunately, blowing it $100 to $400 in say 2months and back to $100 area inside of a few hours, when the market just won't change direction and you dig in and keep getting more.

It's pretty much my last issue to solve.

The 'pretty much my last issue to solve' is insurmountable in the current model, but he won't be told!
  • #1,302
  • Apr 29, 2012 9:00am Apr 29, 2012 9:00am
Quoting Custos

well, as long as averaging down works for you and you can increase your account consistently, then you are doing fine.
He's not, that's his problem, he's treading water at best!
  • #1,303
  • Apr 29, 2012 9:06am Apr 29, 2012 9:06am
Quoting Turveyd

Rule #1 it's not a losing position until it hits the SL or I close it at a loss
lol, now where have we heard that before!


Quoting Turveyd

Ever heard to expression don't chase your trades
lol, ummmm, no never heard that one before. I've heard of 'don't chase the market' though, maybe that's what you're thinking of!
  • #1,304
  • Apr 29, 2012 9:14am Apr 29, 2012 9:14am
Quoting pipmutt
Of course, gains have to cover losses as well as produce profit, an elementary detail which is dismissed by the typical 'averager' as unimportant, the stats, basic math, and basic common sense don't count apparently and don't apply to them! The comfort for them is having winning trades, period, the basic math isn't even a consideration simply because it's too painful to accept the 'back to the drawing board' reality.

Unfortunately Turveyd is a classic example, he's proud of his win:lose but fails to address or even acknowledge the inevitable, despite...
as far as averaging down is concerned, I think the only way this could ever work is if you are seriously good in determining an undervalued or overvalued market (fundamental analysis) and even then markets can stay irrational for quite a while.
All in all a rather inefficient approach, especially in the forex markets. I would rather average down for successful companies, that are paying out nice dividends in the meantime and are just undervalued.
  • #1,305
  • Apr 29, 2012 9:24am Apr 29, 2012 9:24am
Quoting Custos

as far as averaging down is concerned, I think the only way this could ever work is if you are seriously good in determining an undervalued or overvalued market (fundamental analysis) and even then markets can stay irrational for quite a while.
Longer than we can remain solvent according to Keynes!


Quoting Custos

All in all a rather inefficient approach, especially in the forex markets.
Exactly, an inefficient use of valuable equity, leverage, and the speculative potential of a volatile market like forex.

I'll scale into longer term investments in currencies, particularly high yielding commodity currencies where there's interest as well as capital gain but that's something completely different from trading.....
  • #1,306
  • Apr 29, 2012 12:52pm Apr 29, 2012 12:52pm
KNOCK KNOCK...

Scaling into a position and averaging down are two different methods. They are not the same. Please dont compare scaling in or averaging down with equity investments... We are trading currencies not investing in equities.

OMG.. It's not a losing position until....... BANG MY HEAD

Hang on a second....I think I have found the problem Mutts...

Breaking News Report...This just in Trader who shall remain nameless....

Has discovered that....It's not a losing position until I pull my head out of the bag.

http://mthruf.files.wordpress.com/20...ls-cubicle.jpg
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,307
  • Apr 29, 2012 12:55pm Apr 29, 2012 12:55pm
Can you see yourself in this mirror?

Repeat after me....

It's not a loss until it hits my stop. I move my stop before it hits it and add to my losing position. Rinse and repeat...

OK here's the mirror.

http://goobermusicteachers.files.wor...rich-head1.jpg
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,308
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:17pm Apr 29, 2012 1:17pm
I must be doing something wrong.

I don't average down or use recovery.

I use S/R.

I have set TPs that I take profit at.

Hmmm....
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #1,309
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:19pm Apr 29, 2012 1:19pm
And last but certainly not least...my personal fav !


Trader No SL from Spain speaking with Trader No SL from China(USA)

Spain: Hey I just thought i'd tell you I'm including you on my wall of fame.
China: Why thanks. My recovery trading is revolutionary. My invention you know.
Spain: Of course. How do you like all the bells and whistles on my charts?
China: Amazing..It's just like art
Spain: Yes Art ! ! ! I like to change it every few days you know.
China: Why??? It's beautiful !
Spain: Well because 200 pips a day and 75% a month just aint enough !
China: WOW...I've been compunding 10% a month for years and years.
Spain: Well nice chatting with you.
China: You too. Do you think those trades have turned around yet?
Spain: Just add another revolutionary recovery level..It will come back.
China: Your right ! As I always say. "Price always comes back"
Spain: YES...
China: It sure is nice down here...I cant see anything in the dark
Spain: I agree I sure trade better this way.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscart...s/jkon677l.jpg
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,310
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:21pm Apr 29, 2012 1:21pm
Quoting bluesteele
KNOCK KNOCK...

Scaling into a position and averaging down are two different methods. They are not the same. Please dont compare scaling in or averaging down with equity investments... We are trading currencies not investing in equities.

OMG.. It's not a losing position until....... BANG MY HEAD

Hang on a second....I think I have found the problem Mutts...

Breaking News Report...This just in Trader who shall remain nameless....

Has discovered that....It's not a losing position until I pull my head out of the bag.
Not sure why we can't as well talk about investing in equities.

And of course it really depends which kind of method you use. If you are using fundamental analysis and the fundamental story doesn't change, then averaging in might make sense.

Always glad to see your narrow minded posts.
  • #1,311
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:30pm Apr 29, 2012 1:30pm
Quoting Custos
Not sure why we can't as well talk about investing in equities.

And of course it really depends which kind of method you use. If you are using fundamental analysis and the fundamental story doesn't change, then averaging in might make sense.

Always glad to see your narrow minded posts.

Cmon Custos show me your smarter than that. LOL

But maybe your not.

Were talking dinky ass retail traders here that probably 95% will never scratch even on their mini and micro accts.

Oh yeah play the fundies boys with your $500 acct. Nothing like position trading with chicken feed.

You make me laugh...
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,312
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:38pm Apr 29, 2012 1:38pm
Quoting bluesteele
Cmon Custos show me your smarter than that. LOL

But maybe your not.

Were talking dinky ass retail traders here that probably 95% will never scratch even on their mini and micro accts.

Oh yeah play the fundies boys with your $500 acct. Nothing like position trading with chicken feed.

You make me laugh...
hm, where did I say that I trade that way? I just said that under special circumstances this could be viable.
Again my favorite example for buying more of the same if it is getting cheaper: warren buffett.

But I guess you are probably smarter than such an old guy that gives more away than you will probably ever earn, right?
  • #1,313
  • Apr 29, 2012 1:51pm Apr 29, 2012 1:51pm
You kids bickering over crap has proven the point of the OP beautifully.


Well done.
  • #1,314
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:07pm Apr 29, 2012 2:07pm
Quoting bluesteele

OMG.. It's not a losing position until....... BANG MY HEAD
http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra.../smilielol.gif

lol, Blue's back on form!!

Love it!
  • #1,315
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:12pm Apr 29, 2012 2:12pm
Quoting spzd

I must be doing something wrong.

I don't average down or use recovery.

I use S/R.

I have set TPs that I take profit at.

Hmmm....
Yeah you'll never make it, you're a loser on a demo, they've taught you the wrong way on purpose so they get your money, it's what they do you know. I know these things coz I'm a trading ace....etc etc etc
  • #1,316
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:18pm Apr 29, 2012 2:18pm
So to summarize, the way I trade is stupid and won't work, but I'm actually 1 of the few profitable people on here, so that kinda blows that theory out of the universe, but it's okay to average up LOL

You lot are retarded, your childish, you are barely capable of basic logic.


None of you will make it as a trader, give up!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #1,317
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:20pm Apr 29, 2012 2:20pm
Quoting Custos
I think the only way this could ever work is if you are seriously good in determining an undervalued or overvalued market (fundamental analysis)
Couldn't this same statement be applied the same way to many different approaches?

If you are seriously good at determining: support and resistance levels

If you are seriously good at determining: how markets tend to revert to a mean

it cant ONLY work for fundamental analysis, unless you are saying that only fundamentals can provide a positive expectancy?

I think the bottom line is...averaging in can be a useful tool, IF you are seriously good at whatever method you are applying it to.
  • #1,318
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:22pm Apr 29, 2012 2:22pm
Averaging....you know it makes sense!

Now when is this damn Eur/Usd going to turn so I can break even at 1.60 dammit, I've been waiting a loooong time.....


http://i47.tinypic.com/2vmiwbm.jpg
  • #1,319
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:25pm Apr 29, 2012 2:25pm
Quoting pipmutt
Averaging....you know it makes sense!

Now when is this damn Eur/Usd going to turn so I can break even at 1.60 dammit, I've been waiting a loooong time.....


http://i47.tinypic.com/2vmiwbm.jpg


LOL.....Damn he's ugly..
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #1,320
  • Apr 29, 2012 2:27pm Apr 29, 2012 2:27pm
Quoting Turveyd

So to summarize, the way I trade is stupid and won't work
At last!! Ok, now you're getting somewhere!
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