Are we all enemies at the forex market?

When trading futures and stock options, when you earn $1, someone loose $1 (or a group of people, creating a $1 sum). Ok, I am disconsidering the comissions.

Is forex just like it? Or the retail brokers do not really operate all the time, just hedgint sometimes?

In most cases money that traders loose goes to retailer brokers and vice versa. Most of us, and especially those trading mini accounts, are simply gambeling against broker. We don't really sell or buy anything.

are you sure? so the retailers profits only when we loose? I dont think so...

I thoguht that for them it was interesting that we trade the biggest volume as possible...

Money are taken out of the market every day/month ... i can't picture so many people (losers) coming back to support those that trade for a living....

Retail Brkers earn their living in 2 ways.

1) The spread is not actually as wide as they post it and they earn {take} the difference on Every Trade.

2) If you win 5 pips, they lose 5 pips less the pip inflation.
. . If you lose 5 pips, they win 5 pips plus the pip inflation.

Remember that most of their clients loose thereby offseting the ones that win and leaving them with, what I can only imagine, a healthy profit margin.

Also, they don't need the same losers coming back as I'm sure this business has one of the biggest turnover in players on the planet. There will be new losers next month.

B

They cannot bet on this... They dont know what will happen. To say the truth, a normal distribution would give the same number of win/loss clients.

Well, I suppose they do the same thing as Technical Traders do and play the odds that say 95% of traders Lose.

I think the various systems posted in these forums make us a team against the rest of the world. If there are enough of us that all buy or sell at the same time we might actually influence the market. Then again, the big organizations could go gunning for our systems, but apparently they haven't caught on yet because most of the stuff we're using continues to work.

yes, we are all enemies. thats why i like this forum...as machiavelli said..."keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"...

Harharhar... <evil grin>

if you dont die , i will die , we all searching for money belongs to other !

Terrible compaign !

The broker profits every time you enter/close the long side of the spread (and the broker makes it on both the winner and the loser). um.... I want to be the broker.

When we understand the basic fractal nature of the market, we find that we are not as adversiarial as it first seems. The market is quite complex. We all have diffrent goals and time frames. What may be a winning market for a scalper may be a dead looser for a position trader. This is what makes forex a stable market.
Edger Peters' book Chaos and Order in the Capital Markets explains this well, and is a clasic. I would recommend any of his books to understand how chaos and fractals aply the market.

No broker could really fill the orders given by his traders. Especially with a leverage of 50 - 200 that they give (there are brokers that even give 500).

So, they are waiting for the statistics to act - as 95% of the traders are loosing money in Forex. That is why they have these huge advertisments - they are quietly collecting the easy money.

If the loosers (unfortunately, most of them are the intraday traders) will take a long vacation from active trading and just leave their MT4 with long term EA's, the brokers will face a huge problem. And as the poet says: "They will be falling like dried leaves in the mid-summer..."

So, enjoy the party as long as it lasts...

Many pips and good luck

Are they relly playing a ZeroGame with us? I do agree that they canno fill all of our orders, but they must hedge the big positions that have not been already hedged by another trader.

OK...Going to chime with this thread.

1) The market IS every trader for themselves. PERIOD. If any of you have played rogue paintball or laser tag (every shooter for themselves), it's basically the same. Sometimes you're shooting at the same target as other people. Sometimes you're the target. Now, with that said, there are different SIZE traders in this game as well. Some fish are MUCH MUCH bigger. However, those fish fend for themselves too. Sometimes, fish swim together...sometimes they break off on their own. Point is...it's not a team sport by any stretch of the imagination. So please, don't get any delusions here. We aren't necessarily making money directly off each other's losses...but if the time came to face off against your friend on this forum, you better believe you'll pull the trigger...and if you don't...you'll get killed.

2) There seems to be this common, and I mean BLATANTLY common misconception that the broker is on the opposite side of every trade. This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not true. The broker DOES make money in 2 ways. a) The spread...by far the safest profit and b) trading WITH the market information they receive against all the client orders. This doesn't mean they will take a position out against you necessarily. They COULD do this, and it probably happens, but it doesn't happen because they are playing probabilities. Think of it this way...if you could see every order in the market, and you could see the imbalance of supply and demand (and let's face it...despite massive liquidity, the price fluctuates because of simple supply and demand imbalance) and there were more buyers than sellers, which way would the price go? UP, because supply was less than demand. If a broker saw that 99% of the orders were buy orders why the hell would he/she take a short position against all of those orders?? It would be financial suicide because the price would go UP. NO NO, what happens is the broker determines the highest probability trade, and trades with market long enough to make a profit and just before the market switches gears. The broker provides a little bit of liquidity against orders, but just enough to bring prices down momentarily while they take out stops from higher orders and buy back into the strength (or vice versa).

Seriously, the need to make brokers the target of mistrust is common, but misguided. It takes the pressure off of the real bad-guy (YOU). It's a cop out losers like to make in order to justify their own inadequecies. I'm not saying all brokers are angels, there are plenty of bad brokers...but what makes brokers bad isn't their trading practices necessarily. It's their commitment to customer service (or lack there of). It has nothing to do with whether or not their out to screw any of us. Sure they want our money, but good brokers could care less whether you're losing or making money so long as you're satisified by the experience...and face it, losing shouldn't qualify as a bad experience (unless it is a technical problem...which IS grounds for judging a broker). Again HEAR ME WHEN I SAY THIS...I'm not advocating brokers by any stretch of the imagination...but what I DO want to stress is that trying to demonize brokers will only push you farther from the truth about how the market works, and THAT will harm you. It will cause you to look for every excuse to justify why lost except the most obvious and true answer which is...you're own bad judgement during that one particular call or trade.

Brokers serve their purpose. To make money for themselves. Good brokers should help enhance your experience by providing quality customer service, excellent up times, liquidity, leverage, and execution. Those should always be the basis for your judgements for or against a broker. If a broker can't provide you liquidity when you want it, then find one that can. If your broker treats you like a number, leave. However be very real about why you're judging them and don't cheat yourself by placing the blame somewhere else.

OK...off my soapbox...toodles.

I don't think anybody has any delusions that this is any kind of a "team sport". On the other hand, we are each such tiny fleas on the backs of this monster that even if we were all in with the same broker, I doubt that we would ever realy be in a position to be squared up directly against each other. If we choose to huddle together for a little mutual warmth and comfort and aid; all the better. After all we are all just a bunch of little harmless inscets who wouldn't harm a flea.

The only enemy is yourself. Once u conquer your mind and emotions, all the enemies in the FX markets will disappear by themselves.

the question in this thread is a false illusion...

Exactly!!! But we can all get by with a little help from our friends. (MrWhipple hummms Beatles tunes off into the sunset. {or is that a sunrise} )

Indeed, it _is_ a teamsport. Or, why do you think George Sorros told every
body, that he bet against the Pound? (Of course, only _after_ he did so?)

The winner is a looser, if no loosers are there to backup him.
The winner is only a winner, that means the head of the sneak, that's called
traders, if somebody is ready to get behind him.
The winner is only a winner, if he is not the last who get's on the winnin'
side - otherwise he'll notice with his entry, that the side that looked so bright
is no where the loosers are to found.