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Patience, Hardwork, Money Management,blah,blah,blah. I'm sick of these cliche's now :

  • #21
  • May 6, 2006 11:59am May 6, 2006 11:59am
Quoting lavista4u
Finally, I'm still waiting for that magic formula to rain me millions...dudes...Please don't disappoint me here too...you guys are my last hope...



You sound like the real useless type.
Nobody should have to show you any reasons why or why not, you should be trading.

There are many people here, that have spent a lot of time and money, trying to learn how to trade forex.

There are also a few here, that are good enough to help others, to learn.

You are a whiner, it sounds like, you want a short cut, to everything in life.

Go rob a store, turn yourself in and get sent to jail.
Now, you got a roof over your head and 3 meals a day. You can lay in your bed and read Time Magazine.

You think anyone here, really gives a damn about a guy, that has put all that huge amount of time and effort of ONE month, into trading?

Listen kid, you mother carried you for 9 months, nobody else is going to do that.

In short, you make yourself sound, like a really stupid, lazy person, either that or you have a legitimate, mental heath issue.
You may qualify for a disability benefit.

Maybe you should just quit(sounds like one of your better qualities), and open a lemonade stand.

Grow up man, quit slobbering and crying, that the world owes you.


Quinn
I started out with nothing, and I've got most of it left!
  • #22
  • Edited 2:21pm May 6, 2006 2:11pm | Edited 2:21pm
Quote
please show me the gates and buffets of forex industry....and I promise I will become a hardworking, confident and a very deciplined guy...

If you need certain conditions met to develop character, you will never develop character. You'll stay how you are.

Quote
I want my millions now....when im young, restless and fully loaded yeah thats what made me an outside from the begining...and...

You say "my millions." Guess what? You don't have any entitlement to millions at all. I suggest reevaluating this selfish entitlement attitude.

From your previous post:
Quote
do you mean to say cool guys can't survive in this tough world of hard work, patience and decipline.....

Hard work, patience and discipline make you a cool guy. Entitlement, selfishness and laziness make you ripe pickings in this world and pathetic rather than a "cool guy."

Successful people do what unsuccesful people can't and won't do. Right now, you only have can't and won't.
  • #23
  • Edited 4:34pm May 6, 2006 4:01pm | Edited 4:34pm
Quoting lavista4u
Yeah yeah...patience, hardwork, money management, blah, blah,blah...just the three things I hated most and that's what brought me here to make a quick buck and live my dream and what I get here just the same old talk that I learned from my parents, professors, gf's, friends and now forums...that I need to be a good guy to succeed here......well.....bad guys aren't needed in here too.

Well ..I thought in those days...I was the rebel kind not listening to others and just doing the opposite of what others told me to do...kinda outsider, fit-in type, I had issues with the "Authority" for their deciplined approach to all things (now im getting that), I hated the word "Management" and for that quit around 14 jobs in three years.

Well....Now where do I stand, I go around the internet and do some hunky punky freelance job, not enough to make my dream come true and then stumble upon the worlds biggest market of trillions of dollars and I think wow !! wait a minute this might be the thing that will ride me across the ocean...

and when i reach here with all good intentions and dreams...bummer !!
I keep losing money trade after trade....Why the worlds biggest market or trillions of dollar is too cruel to not let me win even one dollar.

well, I thought at first, even if I'm able to corner point zero one of a percent of that trillion dollar....I be a millionare wow!! I found the "HOLY GRAIL" of money making...

Well, Its being well over a month and I'm still trying to find my first 100 dollar and when I ask why this is happening to me..and I get the same old crap...go get some patience, do hard work and be deciplined...noooooo dude....not again....do you mean to say cool guys can't survive in this tough world of hard work, patience and decipline.....

Common man...from all these years I being running from these three and thats what exactly has landed me in here with you guys at the first place and now you too telling me to go back and get some patience, hard work and decipline...what do you mean.....if i got all three "qualities" you speak off.... why would I want to come here man...I would go to harward, stanford or MIT and go around with biggies and get a million dollar job or join the big guys like morgan and goldmen...why would I want to hang around with you guys in forums and ask for advice for making quick buck...

Can't you see dude its plain contradiction in itself and at best a hypocritic approach to tell you indirectly that you can't make money in FOREX

I'm still waiting for all senior guys to show me their resume with a MIT degree or work experience with NASA or better worked in 10 yrs with morgan stanley's forex division.... NONE...anyone here...who can prove that..they being all deciplined all their lifes and they have chosen their destiny from childhood to come to FOREX to make money ....No body..im still waiting....

Folks....let's admit it, we all are here not 'cos of choice but 'cos of neccessity ..we all wanted at some point of our life to get out of something and that has brought us here...and now to tell all "Newbies" to go back and learn some patience, hardwork and blah, blah blah...is just too cruel, hypocratic, stabbing in the back thing...

I feel like the whole advice thing is just to turn the screw in opposite direction or I guess its just mother natures way of paying me back for all the bad deeds i have done to her

Finally, I'm still waiting for that magic formula to rain me millions...dudes...Please don't disappoint me here too...you guys are my last hope...

lets take this to the james16 chart thread. been looking for a reason to get started again. cmon over the waters fine.
  • #24
  • May 6, 2006 11:35pm May 6, 2006 11:35pm
If you ask the same questions everywhere you go ... you will get the same answers every single time. Does that mean everyone is out to get you? Maybe.

I too, turned to forex as an easy way out. I expected it to be easy too. I still think it's easy! But you do have to work hard to learn at first.

If you rather pay money for software that promise to make you rich ... then that would be too easy and everyone would be doing the same thing by now if it worked.

If I worked hard to learn a system that worked. Do you think I would give it away as easy as selling it as a software so that LAZY people can be as rich as the hard working people that worked hard to get into top notch schools?
  • #25
  • May 7, 2006 12:31am May 7, 2006 12:31am
It sounds like you want to get rich but its got to be easy. Truth be told there are easier ways to get rich than trading. There has to be more in it for you than just the money. Its no different from any other profession; if you like what you're doing, you'll generally be quite good at it. With trading, if you don't really have a passion for it, it'll be a very long and miserable experience for you and you'll end up even more disillusioned and bitter than you are now.
Do yourself a favour; take the next few months and study some of the threads here. The James16 one is excellent as well as a number of them in the journal forum. This will give you a realistic view of what trading is all about and at that point you can make a educated decision whether or not you want to move forward or not.
I was here, here I was. Was I here? Yes I was!
  • #26
  • May 7, 2006 1:37am May 7, 2006 1:37am
Bear73,

Thank you dude for your deep insight, you took the time to go indepth and clear my mind step by step....and also WOW !! you made your millions with Forex, great ..Hat's off to you....I'm really pulling my socks up for trading now...It's impressive to me with all degree's and millions...Cos' all those years i being going around the internet no one has come so very forward and proved it with it and with so much insight...george soras et all...great...

Thanks...I keep a Tag to all your post from now on...

Quinn,

Yeah..I'm the lazy type, and I whinn around as you say, I'm useless too but yet I scrolled around the internet with my lazy arse to find forexfactory and had the mind to post my crap in to get your views....well to me that is a one year work done in one hour ...so I'm kinda improving so lets just look into brighter side of things.... well if homer can get nucler power plant runnning with his lazy arse, I can very well push some buttons and put my trading in auto mode..who care's if the plant blows up or I loose my money...well, as they say always say..there's another day ....isn't it...??

Nitman,

After going around FF and C2 and subscribing to trading systems, I'm learning it too..well as some one said..its not hardwork really...its work turned into passion that keeps things going..yeah yeah....same old line...but hey..I'm learning it...


grickherder,

I'm sorry dude, but please prove me wroung, or my facts are just false...or we do not have to believe in something called destiny or luck....

Do we know how Arab Sheiks made their millions....(its off topic...but i have to make a point here) yeah the same saudis, iranian's, the dubai's prince et all....the same guys who were once in 1960's the smugglers, murderers, the looter's, rapist suddenly found with the help of british explorer's OIL beneath their arse and guess what as they say rest is history and now we got to pay 3.50 a gallon for their millions...is that a fair entitlement for guys who were once killiers turned billionare's with their education leval of hardly E- grade..well, if you ask them how much is 1+1 and they would gladly tell you its 11 cos that's the kinda money they make sucking on our hard work.

Now tell me is their any question of hard work here...well you are probably in america and wouldn't know it ..cos you guys are the hardest workers in the whole wide world and very less corrupt too and you get what you work for......come to asia and work in dubai for one month and you will know...how they treat others like slaves and suck upon their sweat....we make the buildings for them...and they live with their russian girlfriends....now is that fair....

Well now tell me is it fair for the nature or destiny to give those killer's their millions...are they by birth entiled....cos by nature's gift..they happen to have oil beneath their arse....for that now they would do nothing ...they are reaping nature reward for i dont know why ??

Well...now if you keep all above facts in mind and think about my entitlement, now what's wroung in that....well, atleast for the record, i have a graduate degree in engineering and i can write and speak english...and to get few of my dreams come true i have to slog all my life. Is that fair or It is with all false systems and false promises with thousands of articles on the internet on forex ...Im not able to make even one hundred of dollar...is that a fair entitlement...

I can only make out till now is that...for the starters..its all HUMBUG !!

Darkster,

You right bro..I could very well go that way begging on the street..but you know what atleast I will get the real dime not the fake one's here who promises me trillions with their systems and before I even start, I end up losing what ever I have....and ohh yeahh..I would get that dime from the good men on the street with no string's attached like the ones here..who are promising me millions if I do the hardwork stuff ......

Merlin and james..thank you for keeping me alive till now ..lets just cut this thread ..i think i got my answers now and im very eager to learn from you guys.....however contradictory my words may sound....but at the end of the day...i do not have any choice..but to make some money and survive...and to do that..I'm begining to take advice and follow it it too.....

Cheers....Lavista
  • #27
  • May 7, 2006 1:42am May 7, 2006 1:42am
SterlingTDR

Thanks Dude...I got your point now..Instead of being a hard hiiting ball of sorts..I'm begining to learn FOREX and I have already got the points cleared in VWB analysis....I got through T1 T4 Methods and momentum strategies and its looking good for a beginner like me

Cheers....Lavista
  • #28
  • May 7, 2006 1:57am May 7, 2006 1:57am
Lavista,

Your best bet is to forget about those systems you bought for now. Study in here for a while. You will learn this stuff. Believe me. I knew nothing about it when I started. I thought I could just make some trades and make some money. The only way you can make it is if you put your whole heart into it. This stuff rocks man. Take your time. Once things start to make sense, you will look at it totally differantly. Take it one day at a time. There is no hurry. This stuff is here for a long time. Good luck man!
JOHN 3:16
  • #29
  • Edited 3:20am May 7, 2006 3:11am | Edited 3:20am
Quoting lavista4u
but please prove me wroung, or my facts are just false...or we do not have to believe in something called destiny or luck....
You haven't really said anything to disprove. You basically said you want money, but without any real effort or work or developing yourself to get it. If you want to think that will all work out and you'll get rich, feel free.

Quote
the same guys who were once in 1960's the smugglers, murderers, the looter's, rapist suddenly found with the help of british explorer's OIL beneath their arse and guess what as they say rest is history

It's a sad fact that cutthroats, brigands and anyone else willing to screw someone else to get money often do what they need to in order to gain that power and money. But even being evil jerks that ensure that they're the ones who's names are on the checks for oil and not someone else had to work to get themselves into those positions or to keep them.

Quote
...is that a fair entitlement for guys who were once killiers turned billionare's

No they're not entitled either. And instead of seeing that and building something good, they decided to be powerbrokers that screw others for money. Lots of people are killed every day to make sure the oil flows. It doesn't mean those who are getting rich off of it are entitled, they're just want it bad enough to kill.

Quote
Well now tell me is it fair for the nature or destiny to give those killer's their millions

Neither nature nor destiny gave them their millions. They killed and oppressed people to get it. Rather than seek honest gain, they were willing to kill and steal to make sure they were the ones to get rich. Worse that being lazy because it hurts others even more.

Quote
i have a graduate degree in engineering and i can write and speak english...and to get few of my dreams come true i have to slog all my life.

That's what life is. You have to decide what is worth it and what's not. Be and do what is necessary to achieve your goals and dreams or give up on them. Your choice.

Quote
Is that fair or It is with all false systems and false promises with thousands of articles on the internet on forex...Im not able to make even one hundred of dollar...is that a fair entitlement...

I believe that it has little to do with the system and more to do with the application by the individual.

Quote
atleast I will get the real dime not the fake one's here who promises me trillions with their systems and before I even start, I end up losing what ever I have....and ohh yeahh..I would get that dime from the good men on the street with no string's attached like the ones here..who are promising me millions if I do the hardwork stuff

No one is promising you millions for hard work. Take a look at what people consider good rates of return. You can work hard at this and make it work, but even if you do, there's no actual promise that you'll get rich. If someone says you will, they're lying to sell you something. The advice you've been getting in this thread is free. It's just not easy to accept-- that what you need to change can be found by looking in a mirror.

Tommorow some guy might stab you for a couple bucks or some food. Or you might get hit by a car or even get hit by lightning. You might have a fire and have where you live get all burned up along with your stuff. Or you might get in some sort of accident and end up crippled. You don't have the right to an easy life. No one does. The world (or nature or destiny or whatever you call it) probably isn't going to dump millions in your lap. It might but it could also just as likely dump cancer there instead.

Maybe you can work hard and do what you think is worth doing. But maybe it won't all work out and you'll just end up getting shot by some criminal. But you always have control over how you're going to react to the possibilities of tommorow and to do something hard rather than just flow down the pass of least resistance.

If you keep being the same way and doing the same things, it's completely illogical to assume you're going to get different results. If you keep looking for get rich quick systems it's highly likely you shouldn't expect anything other than what you've gotten out of them so far-- not even a hundred dollars. The changes needed are more basic.
  • #30
  • May 7, 2006 5:50am May 7, 2006 5:50am
There's been a lot of sarcasm and negativity on both sides of this. Allow me to address an interesting point of view: Forex as a lottery ticket.

First of all, your expected value playing the lottery is about 40%. That's pretty bad. I have some expertise in slot machine math models, and you'll get 98% playing some slots in Vegas. With Forex you can customize your strategy to play it like a slot machine or like a lottery ticket, but get much better than 100% expected value.

Let's say you put on a Forex trade with a 30 pip stoploss. That's like a 30-pip lottery ticket that can win you hundreds or thousands of pips if you wait long enough. Maybe, after weeks of waiting, and you're hundreds of pips up. It suddenly comes back and hits your stoploss and you lose your 30 pips. Darn, you didn't win the lottery. But the cool thing is, you could have closed that position and reacted to the changing price action all along the way. It's better than a lottery ticket with a much higher expected value, but you have to have realistic expectations and you have to keep track of it.

A slot machine is more like Forex than a lottery ticket. There is a way to beat a slot machine short-term, and it's called money management. You need to have enough money to play 200 spins. As soon as you get a decent minor jackpot that puts you in profit, you quit and walk away. That's the only way to win at slots because the house has the advantage with their "take" of 2 or more percent.

With Forex, you have the advantage, not the house. Well, the broker charging the spread takes a few pips on each trade, but you can overcome that by not overtrading. Currency prices are controlled by macroeconomics and market "fear factor". If you manage your money right, you can beat the Forex slot machine simply by going with the trend at whatever time frame is comfortable for you. Stoplosses can "almost" allow you to put on random trades and make money by limiting losses but letting profits run. The expected value of a trade with the trend in Forex is a lot better than the 98% payout of a slot machine in Vegas. It just takes more thought and planning.

Like a slot machine, you will probably have more losses than wins. You have to suck every pip out of those winning trades. There are also ways to have more wins than losses, and ALSO have bigger average wins than average losses. Wow, you can't get that in Vegas, can you? But to do this, you have to do some studying. Just like in school.
  • #31
  • May 7, 2006 12:56pm May 7, 2006 12:56pm
Quoting lavista4u
Bear73,

Thank you dude for your deep insight, you took the time to go indepth and clear my mind step by step....and also WOW !! you made your millions with Forex, great ..Hat's off to you....I'm really pulling my socks up for trading now...It's impressive to me with all degree's and millions...Cos' all those years i being going around the internet no one has come so very forward and proved it with it and with so much insight...george soras et all...great...

Thanks...I keep a Tag to all your post from now on..
I am happy to give you my insights to the markets. When you are starting out you are bombarded with so many different ideas by snake oil merchants that you will eventually hit a low and think that the world is against you. Have a look through my other posts, there is one there that I wrote about the progression of your success as a trader , most people never even get past stage 5 or so before they give up.

You will have to read a lot of different books to discover the gems of gold that will enable you to get ahead. I worked for many years in the financial markets and did many courses and spend a lot of money going through traditional education to learn how to trade and in the end I found the greatest investment both in time and money was in the public library , whose only cost was being able to set aside time to go a choose a book and the time to read it.

I am lucky as I came from Australia and learnt most of what I know when I lived there. Share ownership and private investment in Australia is the highest anywhere in the world , so there a lot more books and a lot more people interested in it and a lot of average joe's who have done very well and then started to share this knowledge , which is a very good thing. I refer a lot to the books written by Daryl Guppy in both my posts and writtings and in my trading strategy. His writtings are basically for Share Market trading , but the theory's can be applied to any market and any time frame you are trading. This is the mark of a true understanding of the financial markets and the real practical implication of this. His books are hard to get for most people outside of australia , but well worth it if you have the patience to order them and wait for the post. The theories behind it will help you not only with forex , but with any market you want to trade in the future as your experience, intelligence and wealth grows.

If you are really serious you have to , what I call , "be your own man" , what this esentially means is to develop your own strategy and trading plan. You can follow any trader blindly which will make money but if you want to really master it you have to develop your own trading style and strategy as what you are trying to do is not master the forex markets , but master financial markets ! I would suggest you have a look at ordering over the internet Daryl Guppies - Trend Trading Book , and start to read as much as you can and learn and not blindly follow anyone , because the real Pot of Gold to make substantial amounts of money is between your ears , you just have to unlock it

All the best
  • #32
  • May 7, 2006 3:39pm May 7, 2006 3:39pm
Quoting Bear73

If you are really serious you have to , what I call , "be your own man" , what this esentially means is to develop your own strategy and trading plan. You can follow any trader blindly which will make money but if you want to really master it you have to develop your own trading style and strategy as what you are trying to do is not master the forex markets , but master financial markets !
Excellent!

My trading improved the most when I stopped listening to what I couldn't do and how others failed, and surrounded myself with ideas, strategies, and like minded people. Then the nuerons kicked in and trading has never been the same.

If you tend to read the posts about how badly traders are failing the most, don't be suprised if you follow in their footsteps.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #33
  • May 7, 2006 4:57pm May 7, 2006 4:57pm
There is a saying about if you are at a poker game for more than 10 minutes and you have not identified the sucker...... get out of the game now because the sucker is you!

Get out of the game and paper trade a bit until you have a knowledge base and some confidence. Also, check how much leverage you are using..... I am guessing 200 to 1 leverage or greater. Leverage exponentially elevates your fear and greed...... try using 10 to 1 leverage and plan your trades. Your attitude in the initial post will only get further in the hole... like the sucker at the poker game.

Make good entry points....... have the proper trade amount so you can stay in the trade when the tide sways the wrong way, make good exit points... whether you are taking a profit or eating a stop loss.

When you trades fail, study them and learn why they lost. Don't just blame the market. It's an entity just like the weather, try to learn to exploit it. I hope you do well. Even more, I hope I do well.
peace.
  • #34
  • May 7, 2006 7:35pm May 7, 2006 7:35pm
Quoting MuddBuddha
Excellent!

My trading improved the most when I stopped listening to what I couldn't do and how others failed, and surrounded myself with ideas, strategies, and like minded people. Then the nuerons kicked in and trading has never been the same.

If you tend to read the posts about how badly traders are failing the most, don't be suprised if you follow in their footsteps.
I agree completely!!! I have even started my own webpage where some of my kids and friends can hang out to trade forex ideas and support each other. A little encouragement can go a long ways to enforce discipline. And as we all know discipline is the name of the game.
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • #35
  • May 7, 2006 9:42pm May 7, 2006 9:42pm
Quoting lavista4u
Bear73,
..well as some one said..its not hardwork really...its work turned into passion that keeps things going..yeah yeah....same old line...but hey..I'm learning it...
Find your passion. The world doesn't owe you squat, but you're really screwing yourself if you don't discover the things that get your blood up. If Forex isn't one of them, quit before you lose any more money.

Good luck.
  • #36
  • May 8, 2006 3:45am May 8, 2006 3:45am
Quoting MrWhipple
A little encouragement can go a long ways to enforce discipline.

Detachment from the market can more effectively enforce discipline without barriers. Encouragement only affects the emotions and can't last long for those with deep histories.
  • #37
  • May 8, 2006 4:01am May 8, 2006 4:01am
Quoting opteron
Detachment from the market can more effectively enforce discipline without barriers. Encouragement only affects the emotions and can't last long for those with deep histories.
I am bipolar, I know about emotion. I can go from Cocaine high to Haldol low, and everything in between. Everything is based on your emotions. Anybody who tells you diffrent is trying to sell you something. (I was in sales for 25 years so I know a bit about that too)

A kind word from time to time from those you love and trust can go a long way to heal the wounds that you are bound to suffer in this ego smashing business we call Forex. But we call this Fun! I called the Army fun too, even though it involved getting up at 4am and running 5 miles then puking before breakfast. I guess it is the same sense of acomplishment when you take on the dragon and win.
Nolite dormiens pungere ursum. -- Latan Proverb.
  • #38
  • May 9, 2006 8:38pm May 9, 2006 8:38pm
Whipple,

I agree..besides hardwork, patience and decipline ..which are hard to come by in a day or two for tuning into FOREX, for a newbie like in any other profession...hey by the way i can fly a JET without these three ...BUT what is required as you say correctly is a HELPING HAND to start with...

This is my second time trying out in Forex and i just got blown away the first time i came in with no direction and help from other traders..

well for the good i found out forums and now getting a personal touch of sorts in guidance and doing very well indeed...my first good trade yesterday..in just three days of guidance...
  • #39
  • May 11, 2006 6:09am May 11, 2006 6:09am
If you want you could short the dollar now since the dollar is getting the crap beating out of it by the economic indicators even though they raised interest rate.

But shorting the dollar now is probably late since the fomc raised the interest to 5% from 4.75 and don't know when the dollar is gonna make a come back but hey you could try. Or wait for a while for the dollar to be stronger again which may not be anytime soon .

I shorted the dollar on a 'practice account' on 4/27/06 with very very very risky money management which most wouldn't do in their real account and gained like over 340% on it.
Like..........+700 pips from gbpusd, +200 from eur/usd, +200 from usd/jpy, and +500 from usdchf...
  • #40
  • May 11, 2006 6:21am May 11, 2006 6:21am
LOL.... Yea I thought it would go down that way too, but I just could not get to my bookie in time to place my bet... Oh well...

But seriously folks... It is fun to make a trade like that with a demo account and watch it grow to the roof. I bet that got your blood pumping...

But with real money I think I would be a little more prudent. I think that somewhere I read on this forum that several expierenced people prefer to learn with a small amount of real money so the pain of the loss feels real...

Nice though, Scott



Quoting mvitachi
If you want you could short the dollar now since the dollar is getting the crap beating out of it by the economic indicators even though they raised interest rate.

But shorting the dollar now is probably late since the fomc raised the interest to 5% from 4.75 and don't know when the dollar is gonna make a come back but hey you could try. Or wait for a while for the dollar to be stronger again which may not be anytime soon .

I shorted the dollar on a 'practice account' on 4/27/06 with very very very risky money management which most wouldn't do in their real account and gained like over 340% on it.
Like..........+700 pips from gbpusd, +200 from eur/usd, +200 from usd/jpy, and +500 from usdchf...
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