Time it takes to be a Successful Forex trader

So, as I said I still got a lot to learn. Doesn't mean I lose every trade, neither does it imply I profit every trade. I was simply explaining that I do realize people can spend 10 minutes a day placing trades and still earn money, but I'm quite new at this so I put in the hours to learn.

I am learning how to look at the graphs, and yes, learning how indicators work. Doesn't mean I want to use them, I just want to know how they work. Curiosity. I don't need another degree in economics, as it was part of my bachelor's degree in business management.

And yes, I do focus on not losing money, as do most new traders I would imagine.

Strangely enough, no, they seem to focus more on making money hence my comment, but then I expect your business management degree will have taught you that.

Anyway sounds like you've got it all under control........

If I had it all under control I wouldn't still be losing money. My degree taught me that when you start a business the first goal is break even, once you reach that you can start worrying about profits.
Trading, like any other business (except the likes of facebook etc), takes time to become profitable. I read a book called Trading in the zone, which helped me a lot with the psychology. What I need is to practice, and make enough money to break even. Only then can I start to profit..

Primarily you need a profitable method you believe in 100%, then you need to work on discipline to trade it without breaking the rules.

Both of those things will help negate the fear and greed aspect of trading.

I have never seen anything as useful as a trading simulator,you can study in a month what could take a year in live demo.
test every system out there,if after 30 trades the results don't jump at you discard the system.then take the profitable system and do more than 100 trades,if the system is more than marginally profitable you can do more until you convince yourself you've struck gold.

then open a testing live account,you might be surprised how long it will take replicate your demo results as most of the time you will be stuck repeating the same old mistakes time and again.

now open a real live account and proceed to make millions

essentially demo should take a year, small live account another year...if you are reeeally good.might take ten years or never as you might never be profitable even in demo stage.

In demo I can make 100% ROI in 5 days easy. Just the other day I turned $5000 into $10000 in just a week. It's the psychology in live trading that's the most difficult.

Just to make sure you don't think I'm full of hot air, I've attached a statement. It's not live, which is why I made a profit lol.

if you are really honest, you can't fool a demo....if at 100 trades you can make 1000% and do it again,youre the man.less than 100 trades doesn't mean much.

I know it doesn't. It's just to show that I can actually profit from demo, doesn't mean I can do it all the time, nor do I imply that I can keep having 100% profit trades.
It was just a supplement to prove that I can actually make a profit in demo, it's live trading I struggle with. When I started I had 4 goals; 1) Break even on demo, 2) Profit on demo, 3) break even on live account, 4) profit from live account.
I've already accomplished the first two, so now I need to work hard to accomplish goal number 3 and eventually number 4. That is the whole reason I spend 12-14 hours a day.
I don't actually stare at the graphs the whole time, I also read books and study how indicators work etc.

You haven't cracked profitable demo trading IMHO until you can do it by placing fixed stops when you enter your trades.

Demo trade with the exact same rules you intend to live trade with.

Those trades was just set to test, I don't trade demo at all any more because it is so different from live trading in terms of psychology.
I haven't said I've cracked anything, I simply said I CAN profit in demo.
If I had "cracked" forex in demo I would obviously employ the same strategy in live trading and not be here moaning about it

Not having a go at you buddy, just trying to advise at to what helped me and subsequently a few guys I have helped along the way.

Anyone CAN profit in demo by tossing a coin, treat demo as real. You should never consider live trading until you can trade a demo with proper rules.

You have not traded a demo account with proper rules in place yet.

I did actually trade demo accounts with rules a couple of months ago, and it worked fine. What I'm trying to do now is following these rules like a "machine" in live trading.
The trades shown in the statement I posted before are just an experiment, and I don't think the strategy I used would work that well in a live account, nor over a longer time frame.

But I'll keep working, I know I'll get there in the end. I've met tough demands and challenges requiring hard work both in the army and at university, so I know what comes after hard work. Reward

Besides, if the people I studied with in London can do it, I see no reason why I can't do it. After all, it's not magic.

I started in november and made 10k in 2 months but my speedy profits made me reckless in trading and the following month i lost 37k......but with all the knowledge and my own new strategy...i just brought back my account to 80K in 3 months from jan/feb to april......yahooo....i never thought...it gona be easy...its always difficult to break the ice.....

Good for you, sounds like you're doing well! Keep it up

I found this article pretty interesting I thought this would be a good idea to bring this to you


The 5 steps of becoming a trader



Step One: Unconscious Incompetence.

This is the first step you take when starting to look into trading. you know that its a good way of making money because you've heard so many things about it and heard of so many millionaires. Unfortunately, just like when you first desire to drive a car you think it will be easy - after all, how hard can it be? Price either moves up or down - what's the big secret to that then - let's get cracking!

Unfortunately, just as when you first take your place in front of a steering wheel you find very quickly that you haven't got the first clue about what you're trying to do. You take lots of trades and lots of risks. When you enter a trade it turns against you so you reverse and it turns again… and again, and again.

You may have initial success, and that's even worse - because it tells your brain that this really is simple and you start to risk more money.

You try to turn around your losses by doubling up every time you trade. Sometimes you'll get away with it but more often than not you will come away scathed and bruised You are totally oblivious to your incompetence at trading.

This step can last for a week or two of trading but the market is usually swift and you move onto the next stage.

Step Two - Conscious Incompetence

Step two is where you realize that there is more work involved in trading and that you might actually have to work a few things out. You consciously realize that you are an incompetent trader - you don't have the skills or the insight to turn a regular profit.

You now set about buying systems and e-books galore, read websites based everywhere from USA to the Ukraine. and begin your search for the holy grail. During this time you will be a system nomad - you will flick from method to method day by day and week by week never sticking with one long enough to actually see if it does work. Every time you come upon a new indicator you'll be ecstatic that this is the one that will make all the difference.

You will test out automated systems on Metatrader, you'll play with moving averages, Fibonacci lines, support & resistance, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, DMI, ADX, and a hundred other things all in the vein hope that your 'magic system' starts today. You'll be a top and bottom picker, trying to find the exact point of reversal with your indicators and you'll find yourself chasing losing trades and even adding to them because you are so sure you are right.

You'll go into the live chat room and see other traders making pips and you want to know why it's not you - you'll ask a million questions, some of which are so dumb that looking back you feel a bit silly. You'll then reach the point where you think all the ones who are calling pips after pips are liars - they can't be making that amount because you've studied and you don't make that, you know as much as they do and they must be lying. But they're in there day after day and their account just grows whilst yours falls.

You will be like a teenager - the traders that make money will freely give you advice but you're stubborn and think that you know best - you take no notice and overtrade your account even though everyone says you are mad to - but you know better. You'll consider following the calls that others make but even then it won't work so you try paying for signals from someone else - they don't work for you either.

You might even approach a 'guru' like Rob Booker or someone on a chat board who promises to make you into a trader(usually for a fee of course). Whether the guru is good or not you won't win because there is no replacement for screen time and you still think you know best.

This step can last ages and ages - in fact in reality talking with other traders as well as personal experience confirms that it can easily last well over a year and more nearer 3 years. This is also the step when you are most likely to give up through sheer frustration.

Around 60% of new traders die out in the first 3 months - they give up and this is good - think about it - if trading was easy we would all be millionaires. another 20% keep going for a year and then in desperation take risks guaranteed to blow their account which of course it does.

What may surprise you is that of the remaining 20% all of them will last around 3 years - and they will think they are safe in the water - but even at 3 years only a further 5-10% will continue and go on to actually make money consistently.

By the way - they are real figures, not just some I've picked out of my head - so when you get to 3 years in the game don't think its plain sailing from there.

Iv had many people argue with me about these timescales - funny enough none of them have been trading for more than 3 years - if you think you know better then ask on a board for someone who's been trading 5 years and ask them how long it takes to become fully 100% proficient. Sure i guess there will be exceptions to the rule - but i haven't met any yet.

Eventually you do begin to come out of this phase. You've probably committed more time and money than you ever thought you would, lost 2 or 3 loaded accounts and all but given up maybe 3 or 4 times but now its in your blood

One day - in a split second moment you will enter stage 3.

Step 3 - The Eureka Moment

Towards the end of stage two you begin to realize that it's not the system that is making the difference. You realize that its actually possible to make money with a simple moving average and nothing else IF you can get your head and money management right You start to read books on the psychology of trading and identify with the characters portrayed in those books and finally comes the eureka moment.

The eureka moment causes a new connection to be made in your brain. You suddenly realize that neither you, nor anyone else can accurately predict what the market will do in the next ten seconds, never mind the next 20 minutes.

Because of this revelation you stop taking any notice of what anyone thinks - what this news item will do, and what that event will do to the markets. You become an individual with your own method of trading

You start to work just one system that you mold to your own way of trading, you're starting to get happy and you define your risk threshold.

You start to take every trade that your 'edge' shows has a good probability of winning with. When the trade turns bad you don't get angry or even because you know in your head that as you couldn't possibly predict it isn't your fault - as soon as you realize that the trade is bad you close it . The next trade or the one after it or the one after that will have higher odds of success because you know your system works.

You stop looking at trading results from a trade-to-trade perspective and start to look at weekly figures knowing that one bad trade does not a poor system make.

You have realized in an instant that the trading game is about one thing - consistency of your 'edge' and your discipline to take all the trades no matter what as you know the probabilities stack in your favor.

You learn about proper money management and leverage - risk of account etc etc - and this time it actually soaks in and you think back to those who advised the same thing a year ago with a smile. You weren't ready then, but you are now. The eureka moment came the moment that you truly accepted that you cannot predict the market.

Step 4 - Conscious Competence

You are making trades whenever your system tells you to. You take losses just as easily as you take wins You now let your winners run to their conclusion fully accepting the risk and knowing that your system makes more money than it loses and when you're on a loser you close it swiftly with little pain to your account

You are now at a point where you break even most of the time - day in day out, you will have weeks where you make 100 pips and weeks where you lose 100 pips - generally you are breaking even and not losing money. You are now conscious of the fact that you are making calls that are generally good and you are getting respect from other traders as you chat the day away. You still have to work at it and think about your trades but as this continues you begin to make more money than you lose consistently.

You'll start the day on a 20 pip win, take a 35 pip loss and have no feelings that you've given those pips back because you know that it will come back again. You will now begin to make consistent pips week in and week out 25 pips one week, 50 the next and so on.

This lasts about 6 months

Step Five - Unconscious Competence

Now we're cooking - just like driving a car, every day you get in your seat and trade - you do everything now on an unconscious level. You are running on autopilot. You start to pick the really big trades and getting 200 pips in a day doesn't make you any more excited that getting 1 pip.

You see the newbie's in the forum shouting 'go dollar go' as if they are urging on a horse to win in the grand national and you see yourself - but many years ago now.

This is trading utopia - you have mastered your emotions and you are now a trader with a rapidly growing account.

You're a star in the trading chat room and people listen to what you say. You recognize yourself in their questions from about two years ago. You pass on your advice but you know most of it is futile because they're teenagers - some of them will get to where you are - some will do it fast and others will be slower - literally dozens and dozens will never get past stage two, but a few will.

Trading is no longer exciting - in fact it's probably boring you to bits - like everything in life when you get good at it or do it for your job - it gets boring - you're doing your job and that's that.

Finally you grow out of the chat rooms and find a few choice people who you converse with about the markets without being influenced at all.

All the time you are honing your methods to extract the maximum profit from the market without increasing risk. Your method of trading doesn't change - it just gets better - you now have what women call 'intuition'

You can now say with your head held high "I'm a currency trader" but to be honest you don't even bother telling anyone - it's a job like any other.

I hope you've enjoyed reading this journey into a traders mind and that hopefully you've identified with some points in here.

Remember that only 5% will actually make it - but the reason for that isn't ability, its staying power and the ability to change your perceptions and paradigms as new information comes available.

The losers are those who wanted to 'get rich quick' but approached the market and within 6 months put on a pair of blinkers so they couldn't see the obvious - a kind of "this is the way i see it and that's that" scenario - refusing to assimilate new information that changes that perception.

I'm happy to tell you that the reason i started trading was because of the 'get rich quick' mindset. Just that now i see it as 'get rich slow'

If you're thinking about giving up i have one piece of advice for you.

Ask yourself the question "how many years would you go to college if you knew for a fact that there was a million dollars a year job at the end of it?

Take care and good trading to you all.

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Also i Have found this pretty much interesting for those who wish to follow their evolution progress and sometime put theirself back in the right lanes.



1. We accumulate information - buying books, going to seminars and researching.

2. We begin to trade with our ‘new’ knowledge.

3. We consistently ‘donate’ and then realize we may need more knowledge or information.

4. We accumulate more information.

5. We switch the markets we are currently following.

6. We go back into the market and trade with our ‘updated’ knowledge.

7. We get ‘beat up’ again and begin to lose some of our confidence. Fear starts setting in.

8. We start to listen to ‘outside news’ and to other traders.

9. We go back into the market and continue to ‘donate’.

10. We switch markets again.

11. We search for more information.

12. We go back into the market and start to see a little progress.

13. We get ‘over-confident’ and the market humbles us.

14. We start to understand that trading successfully is going to take more time and more knowledge than we anticipated.

MOST PEOPLE WILL GIVE UP AT THIS POINT, AS THEY REALISE WORK IS INVOLVED.

15. We get serious and start concentrating on learning a ‘real’ methodology.

16. We trade our methodology with some success, but realize that something is missing.

17. We begin to understand the need for having rules to apply our
methodology.

18. We take a sabbatical from trading to develop and research our trading
rules.

19. We start trading again, this time with rules and find some success, but over all we still hesitate when it comes time to execute.

20. We add, subtract and modify rules as we see a need to be more proficient with our rules.

21. We feel we are very close to crossing that threshold of successful trading.

22. We start to take responsibility for our trading results as we understand that our success is in us, not the methodology.

23. We continue to trade and become more proficient with our methodology and our rules.

24. As we trade we still have a tendency to violate our rules and our results are still erratic.

25. We know we are close.

26. We go back and research our rules.

27. We build the confidence in our rules and go back into the market and trade.

28. Our trading results are getting better, but we are still hesitating in executing our rules.

29. We now see the importance of following our rules as we see the results of our trades when we don’t follow the rules.

30. We begin to see that our lack of success is within us (a lack of discipline in following the rules because of some kind of fear) and we begin to work on knowing ourselves better.

31. We continue to trade and the market teaches us more and more about ourselves.

32. We master our methodology and our trading rules.

33. We begin to consistently make money.

34. We get a little over-confident and the market humbles us.

35. We continue to learn our lessons.

36. We stop thinking and allow our rules to trade for us (trading becomes boring, but successful) and our trading account continues to grow as we increase our contract size.

37. We are making more money than we ever dreamed possible.

38. We go on with our lives and accomplish many of the goals we had always dreamed of.

I actually read this article somewhere a couple of weeks ago, and I think it's brilliant. I've even been able to identify my self in a lot of what is said in stage one and two, and a microscopical amount of what is said in stage three.

Thank you, well posted!

...that article was written by soultrader...apparently he quit trading.

Maybe he made enough to retire... Or got bored

No, it wasn't written by him, it was posted by him. It was written by Bandler and Grinder, the founders of NLP.