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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #381
  • Apr 11, 2012 3:25am Apr 11, 2012 3:25am
Quoting fxtr51
You are using the word "unlock" out of context because
you haven´t understood lock-unlock yet.

I told you before you would end like LazyPawn but you decided to not listen. Not my fault, dude.
Inserted Video
  • #382
  • Apr 11, 2012 3:36am Apr 11, 2012 3:36am
Quoting 2+2=4x
I have better things to do
Spamming the thread with a video ...., oh yes, that fits to your
show here.
  • #383
  • Apr 11, 2012 4:02am Apr 11, 2012 4:02am
Quoting fxtr51
Look: where the losser has his StopLoss, I have a pending order with same lot-size.

Is this too complicated for you to understand ?
So if you're long 1 lot, where the "losser" would put a pending order to sell 1 lot, you instead put a pending order to sell 1 lot. I think everybody else is quite clear on what you are doing there.

Of course, that is entirely off-topic to the thread which is supposed to be about trading without leverage and not limiting losses.
  • #384
  • Edited 4:53am Apr 11, 2012 4:14am | Edited 4:53am
Quoting euclid
So if you're long 1 lot, where the "losser" would put a pending order to sell 1 lot, you instead put a pending order to sell 1 lot. I think everybody else is quite clear on what you are doing there.

Of course, that is entirely off-topic to the thread which is supposed to be about trading without leverage and not limiting losses.
Sorry, euclid, you are wrong.
You missed the topic too.

Look here:
Quote
1. NO leverage
I have a 1000 eur account and I'm trading only 0.01 lots right now.
This leaves a lot of room for interpretations.
My understanding is: NO leverage to Nacho means he will use only 0.01 lots.
But his account might allow for 1:500 leverage.
We don´t know it.

Does he use a micro-cent account ?
Or not ?
If he would use a micro-cent account, his balance would 1000 x 100 = 100.000
instead of 1000, he would have told us "my balance is 100.000 and I use only 0.01 lots".

In this context, NO leverage means using the lowest lot-size.

-----> I am not off-topic at all with my lock-unlock

Now look here:
Quote
3. NO Stop Loss
I do not set SL, so basically trades close only when TP is reached. (I'll explain later why)

I don´t use SL in my lock-unlock method.
----> I am not off-topic at all.

Now let us remember what you said about me:
Quote
Of course, that is entirely off-topic to the thread which is supposed to be about trading without leverage and not limiting losses.
Do you understand that you are entirely wrong ?
So, what is the purpose of your comment ?
  • #385
  • Apr 11, 2012 9:32am Apr 11, 2012 9:32am
Quoting nanningbob
Hey why dont you teach something. I bet you cant. I dare you to teach something. You cant, you dont have the ability to teach. Attack attack attack. Any moron can criticize, that is the most perfected skill of any human being. Come on big boy. Teach us. We are waiting, waiting, waiting. I dare you to open a thread that teaches how to use a SL. I dare you. Come on big professional trader. Teach all these louses how to use a SL. You are a blowhard and a coward. Come on big boy teach. Do something constructive with your life.
here you go...nanonbab

Pair : eurusd
TP 5 pip
SL 20 pip

warning it will only work ,if you have a high hit rate..
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #386
  • Apr 11, 2012 2:55pm Apr 11, 2012 2:55pm
Quoting Slim Buffett
I might also add.... you're one of the most unappealing humans I've ever had the displeasure to to hear from.

Whatever happens to me in my lifetime, I WILL ALWAYS BE HAPPY THAT I'M NOT YOU.

got it ?

LOL...good one bub..At least I AM a trader. Good luck your going to need it.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #387
  • Apr 11, 2012 3:25pm Apr 11, 2012 3:25pm
Quoting fxtr51
So, what is the purpose of your comment ?
Just appealing to you to stop disrupting this thread, which was about no leverage trading. I know you and the brokers don't like that idea. You want people to use leverage and hedging. But IMO it's not appropriate for you to promote that agenda here.
  • #388
  • Apr 11, 2012 3:59pm Apr 11, 2012 3:59pm
HEDGING? Come on... Let's not start this again. "Hedging" is a waste of money. Don't do it. It doesn't help you. You are buying and selling the same thing.
  • #389
  • Apr 11, 2012 4:04pm Apr 11, 2012 4:04pm
Quoting euclid
Just appealing to you to stop disrupting this thread, which was about no leverage trading. I know you and the brokers don't like that idea. You want people to use leverage and hedging. But IMO it's not appropriate for you to promote that agenda here.
Sorry, euclid.
You are completely wrong.

If you have enough money, then trade without leverage.
Nowhere did I say one single word against that.

And I don´t want people to hedge.
I just showed Nacho a way to trade more safely than without stop-loss.

Nowhere did I say that he has to trade like that or that it is the only way to trade. No agenda at all.

So, what is your point ?
Those you made are not valid. They are completely besides the topic.
  • #390
  • Edited 5:30pm Apr 11, 2012 5:15pm | Edited 5:30pm
Quoting lillelise
here you go...nanonbab

Pair : eurusd
TP 5 pip
SL 20 pip

warning it will only work ,if you have a high hit rate..
Dumb. Thank you for proving how incapable of a trader you really are. You and BS ought to form the incompetent club, you are totally unable to explain something you are clearly not successful at.
  • #391
  • Apr 11, 2012 5:19pm Apr 11, 2012 5:19pm
Quoting fierceman
HEDGING? Come on... Let's not start this again. "Hedging" is a waste of money. Don't do it. It doesn't help you. You are buying and selling the same thing.
Hedging has been used for ages as a trading tool. Whether you do a buy or sell on the gbp/usd or a buy on the gbp/usd and a sell on the gbp/jpy or a sell on an option to protect your trade they are the same thing. It is whether or not you know how to use it to your advantage.

Hedging is the practice of taking a position in one market to offset and balance against the risk adopted by assuming a position in a contrary or opposing market or investment.
  • #392
  • Apr 11, 2012 6:00pm Apr 11, 2012 6:00pm
How a typical hedge works:
A stock trader believes that the stock price of Company A will rise over the next month, due to the company's new and efficient method of producing widgets. He wants to buy Company A shares to profit from their expected price increase. But Company A is part of the highly volatile widget industry. If the trader simply bought the shares based on his belief that the Company A shares were underpriced, the trade would be a speculation.
Since the trader is interested in the company, rather than the industry, he wants to hedge out the industry risk by short selling an equal value (number of shares × price) of the shares of Company A's direct competitor, Company B.
The first day the trader's portfolio is:
Long 1,000 shares of Company A at $1 each
Short 500 shares of Company B at $2 each

Now FOREX is unique because you pair two separate currencies together. In other words you dont have to go out and find the opposite position it is paired with the currency. So if you buy the eur you can protect your position from risk (hedging) by also selling the USD. The difference is in stocks you have to get another stock to make the hedge. In Forex they are already paired together. So if you use the example above Company A makes a profit while company B goes down. If it works you later resell company B stock when it increase after you closed out Company A for a profit. Same thing if the opposite happens if company A stock goes down then B goes up. The danger of this strategy is if both go down you are a double loser. However, that cant happen in Forex. IN BOTH CASES it still takes a trading skill to properly buy and sell and then close both out so you end up with a profit. It is not NEDGING as certain characters try to make it.
  • #393
  • Apr 11, 2012 8:37pm Apr 11, 2012 8:37pm
Quoting nanningbob
Hedging is the practice of taking a position in one market to offset and balance against the risk adopted by assuming a position in a contrary or opposing market or investment.
Bob, what are you doing? Are you actually explaining what a hedge is? Really?

smh
  • #394
  • Apr 11, 2012 9:08pm Apr 11, 2012 9:08pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Bob, what are you doing? Are you actually explaining what a hedge is? Really?

smh
That is the definition right out of Wikipedia, do you have a better one?? Would you like to present it?
  • #395
  • Apr 11, 2012 9:24pm Apr 11, 2012 9:24pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
No risk = No reward. You'd make more money in bonds. No speculation necesary.
This.


At the very least, do some sort of low levered carry trade... or emulate the DB Currency Harvest Index at 2:1 leverage... just a thought.
FXGears.com
  • #396
  • Apr 11, 2012 10:37pm Apr 11, 2012 10:37pm
Quoting fxtr51
So, what is your point ?
Reflection.

Quoting fxtr51
Offending in about each of your postings.
Quoting fxtr51
The reason is their belief system, it allows no room for creative thoughts outside of the box.

That pattern would not necessarily be a problem in itself, but when it is dwelling in a person who is hosting rudeness, arrogance and bitterness, then it is explosive and turns into aggressiveness against those who do something which goes against the engraved dogma of the SL cult.

Quoting fxtr51
I completely understand what you are saying after you finally revealed
your hidden agenda and defined the premise you had in mind from
the start.
Quoting fxtr51
No agenda at all.

Quoting fxtr51
So why are you here spamming this thread with postings which don´t contribute to the topic ?
Quoting fxtr51
-----> I am not off-topic at all with my lock-unlock

Quoting fxtr51
And I don´t want people to hedge.
Quoting fxtr51
You should know that 10 traders get 10 different results with the same
strategy, right ?

If you teach them the SL belief system, 8 will lose money and 1 will break even and 1 will make money.
Such is life.

If I teach them the lock-unlock, 1 will lose, 1 will break even and 8 will
make money. Simple as that.

Quoting fxtr51
I see in when I am looking into the mirror ...
Look closer.
That is all.
  • #397
  • Apr 11, 2012 10:46pm Apr 11, 2012 10:46pm
Quoting nanningbob
That is the definition right out of Wikipedia, do you have a better one?? Would you like to present it?
That's not the point.


Anyway, hedging = dumb. Let me explain why...


Scenario #1:

10 lots short hedged with 5 lots long = 5 lots short

Scenario #2:

5 lots short without hedge = 5 lots short

Therefore, net position of scenario #1 = net position of scenario #2


Follow me so far? Good. Moving along...


Scenario #1 pays out interest on 10 lots and gains interest (at a lower rate than interest is paid out) on 5 lots.

Scenario #2 pays out interest on 5 lots only.

Therefore, with hedging you pay more interest than you would without hedging on the same net position. Even if you invert the interest gained to the greater position size you will recieve less interest with hedging as compared to without hedging. Because interest rate payout to br0ker is higher than interest payout to trader. This is very basic math.

Conclusion: Hedging = dumb.
  • #398
  • Apr 11, 2012 11:29pm Apr 11, 2012 11:29pm
Quoting nanningbob
How a typical hedge works:
A stock trader believes that the stock price of Company A will rise over the next month, due to the company's new and efficient method of producing widgets. He wants to buy Company A shares to profit from their expected price increase. But Company A is part of the highly volatile widget industry. If the trader simply bought the shares based on his belief that the Company A shares were underpriced, the trade would be a speculation.
Since the trader is interested in the company, rather than the industry, he wants to hedge...
Bob... this explanation of yours makes horrible sense. I'm not sure if you are doing this on purpose or what...

In stocks, people hedge using things like options. There is a benefit to hedge in that situation. There are things called interest or premium which can be paid to the trader (in this case you). That way, you not only minimize exposure, you can also profit on interest. That is a reason why people hedge in stocks, options or futures.

By hedging, they will ultimately end up making less than being purely directional. You reduce risk but give up more on profits. However, the important distinction here is that your hedge positions may end up making profits for you, although they may be mediocre.

There is no benefit of the "hedge" in forex. Not by using 1 instrument (spot forex only.) If you went long eurusd, and "hedge" buy usdjpy, you are in effect trading long eurjpy.

The worst thing about this "hedge" is that you end up paying premium to your broker for opening 2 position by paying swap and spread.

There is no benefit to this so called hedge of yours. Not by using only spot forex as an instrument.
  • #399
  • Apr 11, 2012 11:37pm Apr 11, 2012 11:37pm
Quoting nanningbob
Dumb. Thank you for proving how incapable of a trader you really are. You and BS ought to form the incompetent club, you are totally unable to explain something you are clearly not successful at.
why arent i suprised you wouldent get it ??????

what excatly is it you dont understand ??
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #400
  • Apr 11, 2012 11:38pm Apr 11, 2012 11:38pm
Quoting nanningbob
IN BOTH CASES it still takes a trading skill to properly buy and sell and then close both out so you end up with a profit. It is not NEDGING as certain characters try to make it.
Bob,

I wasn’t going to post again, but I saw another way of presenting the diagram back in my post #122. I’ve attached the extended image below. Hopefully it will also help others to see where LazyPawn, 2+2=4ex, pipmutt etc are coming from.

To get the background, you’ll need to work through post #122, step by step. But if you take the time to do this, you’ll see why Merlin coined the term "nedging" (newbie hedging).

I refer to the additional diagrams out to the right. Blue areas represent where a trade is making pips, and red areas where a trade is losing pips.

In Scenario A, the hedged trader (Mr L) makes two trades, L1 and L2, worth +120 and +30 for a total of +150 pips. The conventional trader, Mr M, also makes trades, M1 and M3, worth +80 and +70, also for a total of +150.

Here is the basis for comparison: While Mr L is hedged, his trade L1 is losing 30 pips while is trade L2 is gaining 30 pips, for a net effect of zero. Hence the shaded red area and the shaded blue arrow effectively cancel each other out. If we remove these two objects from the diagram (because they cancel each other, just like equal numerators and denominators in an algebraic equation), we get exactly the same result as for Mr M. That’s why both traders made a total of +150.

Exactly the same logic applies to Scenario B. Where Mr L’s trades are hedged, they are shaded, and the corresponding areas can be cancelled, again leaving exactly the same net positions as Mr M, at every point along the way. In this scenario, however, both traders’ timing was less perfect, so they each made only +130 this time (as explained in post #122).

Merlin’s point is that ANY scenario that employs hedging will include overlapping blue and red arrows whenever the trader is hedged, and that these arrows can be cancelled, leaving a net flat position. The remaining arrows (when the trader unhedges himself) are when the trader is net long or net short, which is exactly the same as being long or short using conventional trading.

Nobody is saying that you can’t make money hedging. Mr L made profits of +150 and +130 in the diagrammed scenarios. But the point that’s being made is that he didn’t outperform Mr M, and therefore hedging doesn’t offer any benefit over conventional methods. It is merely a different approach to placing orders, nothing more. That's why Merlin calls it "nedging".

Merlin offered $100,000 to anybody who could create a scenario where a hedged set of trades couldn’t be replicated by simply being net long, short or flat. As far as I’m aware, nobody was able to win the money.

There is one small drawback to hedging. In my example, both traders placed 2 trades, hence (everything else being equal) both would have paid the same spread. However, there are situations (e.g. here) where the hedged trader pays more spread than the conventional trader. Also, assuming your br0ker charges more swap on counter-carry trades than he pays out on carry trades, the hedged trader will pay the difference every time his hedge happens to be open at 5pm New York EST, while the conventional trader, being out of the market, pays no swap.

I agree 100% with you that "IN BOTH CASES it still takes a trading skill to properly buy and sell and then close both out so you end up with a profit." The winning edge comes from the timing, not from the method used to place the orders. Profit is a case of being net long while prices are rising, and net short while they're falling.

David

Note to everybody: I don’t mind answering sensible questions, but I will not be drawn into any needless “I know more than you do” arguments. If you can find a flaw in the math involved, expose it for what it is. And don’t forget to also PM your own diagrammed scenario to Merlin, and collect your $100k.
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