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  • #501
  • Edited 1:24pm Apr 10, 2012 1:13pm | Edited 1:24pm
Quoting 60minuteman

why does 10% a day sound so absurd pipmutt? what am i missing?
Well to me it does sound absurd, compounded that represents doubling your account every 7 days or so. Is that possible, consistently?

If it is then to heck with trading, I'll give you 10k and see you in a year to collect my 350m odd, I'll even give you 99% of the profit!!

Ok before you say it I know liquidity would become an issue but even so, the return is if you don't mind me saying, unbelievably staggering by anyone's standards!


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  • #502
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:26pm Apr 10, 2012 1:26pm
Quoting pipmutt
Well to me it does sound absurd, compounded that represents doubling your account every 7 days or so. Is that possible, consistently?

If it is then to heck with trading, I'll give you 10k and see you in a year to collect my 350m odd, I'll even give you 99% of the profit!!

Ok before you say it I know liquidity would become an issue but even so, the return is if you don't mind me saying, unbelievably staggering by anyone's standards!


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ok, barclays bank, acc.no. 3105567890 sort code 31.04.67.. let me know how you want to work it
tradewith60
  • #503
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:29pm Apr 10, 2012 1:29pm
Quoting pipmutt
Well to me it does sound absurd, compounded that represents doubling your account every 7 days or so. Is that possible, consistently?

If it is then to heck with trading, I'll give you 10k and see you in a year to collect my 350m odd, I'll even give you 99% of the profit!!

Ok before you say it I know liquidity would become an issue but even so, the return is if you don't mind me saying, unbelievably staggering by anyone's standards!


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obviously when my account grows to a decent size i will risk less and less per trade, my aim is to only have to risk 0.5% per trade... thats the smart move...

The guy that mentored me was doing way way more.... just reading s/r and trend... so maybe I just have greater belief... thats unquantifiable but goes a long way.
tradewith60
  • #504
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:34pm Apr 10, 2012 1:34pm
Quoting 60minuteman

obviously when my account grows to a decent size i will risk less and less per trade, my aim is to only have to risk 0.5% per trade... thats the smart move
Why?


Quoting 60minuteman

The guy that mentored me was doing way way more
More than what, 10% a day?
  • #505
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:36pm Apr 10, 2012 1:36pm
Quoting pipmutt
Why?
past performance is not indicative of future results.... i think is the phrase
tradewith60
  • #506
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:49pm Apr 10, 2012 1:49pm
Quoting 60minuteman

past performance is not indicative of future results.... i think is the phrase
Ok, so at the stroke of a keyboard the return has reduced by 75% to 2.5% per day because of what I assume must be a psychological issue as size increases?
  • #507
  • Apr 10, 2012 2:14pm Apr 10, 2012 2:14pm
Quoting pipmutt
Ok, so at the stroke of a keyboard the return has reduced by 75% to 2.5% per day because of what I assume must be a psychological issue as size increases?
hahaha...

I need a certain amount to live on, whilst i have a small account i am prepared to risk 2% per trade until I have enough capital to make the choices I want to make.

When that situation changes, why continue to risk so much? unless you're greedy? not a helpful trait really for a trader.

2.5% a day on an account of £100k would surely be enough for most people?

Trading for me (and from what i have been told for major funds/instituitional trading houses) is all about risk management... if you have the opportunity to make the required profit and reduce risk... that is the smart decision... not a psychological one at all.
tradewith60
  • #508
  • Apr 10, 2012 2:22pm Apr 10, 2012 2:22pm
Okay for starters :-


Your risking 2.5% per trade say, not per day unless you plan to make 10 trade at 0.25% each incase they all lose for the 2.5% total.

If you risk 2.5% per trade and your smart, you'll risk 2.5% at a time where you'll make 2.5% - 10% yes 4x's the move of your SL.

get to 75% win rate then you'll get maybe +2.5% +5% +5% -2.5% in a typical average day so thats +10% in a day.

This IS possibly, IF your GOOD very good, ask yourself can you get that good, cause it's possible, do many people risk this level ?? ofcourse NOT
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #509
  • Edited 3:11pm Apr 10, 2012 2:56pm | Edited 3:11pm
Quoting 60minuteman

Trading for me (and from what i have been told for major funds/instituitional trading houses) is all about risk management... if you have the opportunity to make the required profit and reduce risk... that is the smart decision... not a psychological one at all.
Well risk management is important for every trader, not just institutional traders (who risk getting fired, or worse, if they cross the line).

I'm not sure about the wisdom in adjusting risk to suit your 'required profit' but hey ho....


As for greed.......


Inserted Video
  • #510
  • Apr 10, 2012 3:45pm Apr 10, 2012 3:45pm
i trade from 3 accounts,2 of which im very concervative on my risk per trade,the risk for large % growth outways my desire for risking my income,regardless off my trading strenghts.

my third account i trade with much larger risk,i always start with very low start up capital,but because its not going to effect my income i trade some high probability trades with as much as 10 % risk .

the % growth on this account can be huge very quickly,but when it gets to my threshhold of interesting money to me,i can no longer trade with the same mindset,i always take the gains and locate them to somthing with less risk.

thats not to say this account has also been blown .but overall its been kind to me.the thing is large gains are very possible but everybodies perspective of what amount of money has meaning is diferent.

i think if your gaining 20 to 35 % a year your trading at maximun risk to your relative circumstances,i would also add that your also very good at this.

the more you become dependant on the result of each trade the closer you get to 15 to 20 % increase.we are afterall trading for ourselves .theres a massive diference ,especially when your morgage depends on it
  • #511
  • Apr 10, 2012 3:50pm Apr 10, 2012 3:50pm
depends on your circumstances, 20 - 30% per year, would net me even when I go for it and whack the account to all I can afford ( $2000 ), $400 - $600 per year, it's not worth my time / energy for that kinda return.

And at that growth rate I'll be 150 before I can start to take any kinda wage from it.

If you've got a 100K then 20 - 30K per year, fair enough no issues, 10K okay it's some spending money maybe a holiday.

Get finding profitable setups and trading them down first, without that your ownly going to lose money, be it 1% or 10% per go.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #512
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:01pm Apr 10, 2012 4:01pm
Quoting pipmutt
Well risk management is important for every trader, not just institutional traders (who risk getting fired, or worse, if they cross the line).

I'm not sure about the wisdom in adjusting risk to suit your 'required profit' but hey ho....


As for greed.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muz1OcEzJOs
how did i know the 'gecko' would appear sooner or later...
tradewith60
  • #513
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:10pm Apr 10, 2012 4:10pm
Quoting Turveyd
depends on your circumstances, 20 - 30% per year, would net me even when I go for it and whack the account to all I can afford ( $2000 ), $400 - $600 per year, it's not worth my time / energy for that kinda return.

And at that growth rate I'll be 150 before I can start to take any kinda wage from it.

If you've got a 100K then 20 - 30K per year, fair enough no issues, 10K okay it's some spending money maybe a holiday.

Get finding profitable setups and trading them down first, without that your ownly going to lose money, be it 1% or 10%...
thats the point,the diference between sombody making 20 % a year on a relative account size is practical and sustainable.and also extremly realistic but not so easy.

if you have your income from other sources then your risk can be far greater and your reward far greater,im not saying it cant be done.ive had very large rewards from small account start up size,but the big change comes when you become dependant on your trading for a living,your risk will reduce .its possible to surpass your income needs and then your risk can be open ended,thats a good place to be.
  • #514
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:51pm Apr 10, 2012 4:51pm
My opinion is its best to stand back from the rest of the herd, as they all clamber over each other to milk that last piece of knowledge from the mother trader.
Its sometimes best to look around where the naive and deluded majority fail to look or overlook. am i correct, or am i correct?
On a lot of forums the real knowledge can be found in threads like these.

I like to try and learn the mind state of experienced traders rather than the holy grail system and its million variations, because if we are afraid to make our own mistakes we will never be successful.

Its the same with most things in life.

First post from a sort of newb. I feel i'm in good company
  • #515
  • Apr 10, 2012 5:05pm Apr 10, 2012 5:05pm
Quoting diceman555
thats the point,the diference between sombody making 20 % a year on a relative account size is practical and sustainable.and also extremly realistic but not so easy.

if you have your income from other sources then your risk can be far greater and your reward far greater,im not saying it cant be done.ive had very large rewards from small account start up size,but the big change comes when you become dependant on your trading for a living,your risk will reduce .its possible to surpass your income needs and then your risk can be open ended,thats a...

Consistency is key, I was 6 months into a very easy low risk high reward method and about to risk more $$'s and go for it and then every single trade turned to losses, market conditions change.

Without profitable over all setups you'll only lose, until that's sorted Demo or Micro account keep your losses at a hobby level, when you've got it nailed down slowly add more funds.

Never risk on any trade more than you can afford to lose, that is all the MM you need, wether it's $3 or $3000 is entirely upto you.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #516
  • Apr 10, 2012 5:05pm Apr 10, 2012 5:05pm
Quoting 60minuteman

how did i know the 'gecko' would appear sooner or later...
lol, one of my favourite films, that and Rogue Trader! Drives my wife nuts!


"You're walking around blind without a cane, pal. A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place."

"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another."


It might just be a film but after reading these forums sometimes it's a reality check!
  • #517
  • Apr 10, 2012 5:16pm Apr 10, 2012 5:16pm
Quoting pipmutt
lol, one of my favourite films, that and Rogue Trader! Drives my wife nuts!


"You're walking around blind without a cane, pal. A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place."

"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another."


It might just be a film but after reading these forums sometimes it's a reality check!
The bold bit is actually incorrect, if it was correct then how would the big traders get million $ bonus's and drive around in ferrari's, not to mention all of the other running costs of running the business, Funds generally don't lose money so there is a clear money path, from Retail straight into Funds and the like.

And when a trade takes place, the person selling doesn't have to take a loss and neither does the buyer who aims to sell later at a profit and that buyers aims to do the same.

Edit *******

Ohhh re read it, sorry they have that spot on, I was expected the normal line.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #518
  • Apr 10, 2012 5:58pm Apr 10, 2012 5:58pm
what was the original point of the thread?
tradewith60
  • #519
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:04pm Apr 10, 2012 7:04pm
[quote=pipmutt;5558566]lol, one of my favourite films, that and Rogue Trader! Drives my wife nuts!"

"I It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, "


I [/quote]


By strict definition, trading never was, never will be, a zero sum game.

And that's the way it is.
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #520
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:16pm Apr 10, 2012 7:16pm
[quote=Slim Buffett;5558768]
Quoting pipmutt
lol, one of my favourite films, that and Rogue Trader! Drives my wife nuts!"

"I It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, "


I [/quote]


By strict definition, trading never was, never will be, a zero sum game.

And that's the way it is.

Tax man, always gets his cut of the profits, over here doesn't refund you anything for his losses.


How to create your own tax
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
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