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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #321
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:01am Apr 10, 2012 8:01am
[quote=attila;5556941]I always listen to the SL bunch. Just to figure out your weaknesses, whereas you, in your orthodoxy literally go ballistic when you hear somebody employing a different strategy. I personally use SL sometimes. Sometimes I don't, depending on how I perceive the risk of the trade to be. That being said, you can use all the SLs in the world, if you are not consistently profitable, you will lose your money. Same applies for the no SL approach.

Good one.

The title of this thread is No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

So why are some of the posts so vocal in there non appreciation of not using a stoploss, and lets face it, some have been quite forward in getting their opinion across.

Its a sad fact that its the same few faces that have tried to destroy a few other threads that 'went against the establishment'.. ask yourself why?

If a group of traders want to explore the possibility of not using a stoploss then let them get on with it, traders know what the potential dangers are..... and benefits, and what the f"ck has it got to do with anyone else, if someone doesn't want to use a stop then let them.

The forum has listened to the SL views but somehow I dont think they
are listening to the non SL views.

The must have brigade have expressed their views, its been noted, now let the thread evolve in the direction that the OP originally wanted.

If you must use a stop loss then start a new thread titled 'You must use a stoploss because the broker needs yer wonga',.
  • #322
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:04am Apr 10, 2012 8:04am
Quoting lillelise
Now you got moodybutt and cortnyvild onboard....
They just Freeze the Loss...
That in not an accurate fact based statement and has been made up by lillelise.

I agree with attila: what works for you works for you.

Good luck Nacho but I have done my stint with the numbsculls and choose not to participate any of my energy here as they are vampires and will suck you dry with futility.

My account is only up 62.94% this last 30 days and I have to go manage it up a little higher.

Good luck to all.
  • #323
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:06am Apr 10, 2012 8:06am
These are all failed traders. Don't worry about them. Very easy to spot.

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[quote=moodybot;5557065]
Quoting attila
I always listen to the SL bunch. Just to figure out your weaknesses, whereas you, in your orthodoxy literally go ballistic when you hear somebody employing a different strategy. I personally use SL sometimes. Sometimes I don't, depending on how I perceive the risk of the trade to be. That being said, you can use all the SLs in the world, if you are not consistently profitable, you will lose your money. Same applies for the no SL approach.

Good one.

The title of this thread is [url="http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=5556941#post5556941"]...
  • #324
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:07am Apr 10, 2012 8:07am
Yes...

Lilly is on board, its the full set.

Buckle up, the thread will surely take off now..............
  • #325
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:09am Apr 10, 2012 8:09am
Quoting moodybot
Yes...

Lilly is on board, its the full set.

Buckle up, the thread will surely take off now..............
Yeah, lilly is another one.. See you all later.

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  • #326
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:12am Apr 10, 2012 8:12am
Quoting attila
Yeah, lilly is another one.. See you all later.

Attachment
Class

With you Courtney, time to get out of here.

M.
  • #327
  • Apr 10, 2012 8:14am Apr 10, 2012 8:14am
Quoting moodybot
Yes...

Lilly is on board, its the full set.

Buckle up, the thread will surely take off now..............

Naaa wrong....SL or no SL is like taste...
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #328
  • Apr 10, 2012 11:31am Apr 10, 2012 11:31am
with all due respect, and trust that courneywild's performance of last 30 days, i can't kill my doubt that how long he can keep doing this.

let's say 50% a month, one year later, it'll be 12900%. Yes, 129 times of now. never heard this thing on earth before. in 5 yrs, he will turn $1 into 36 billion $$$. i do wish he can get it done, because in that case, i will gain my hope too.

however, it shakes my belief in this world.

just a reminder to noobs.

Quoting courtneywild
My account is only up 62.94% this last 30 days and I have to go manage it up a little higher.

Good luck to all.
  • #329
  • Apr 10, 2012 11:43am Apr 10, 2012 11:43am
to do anything in this world, living, working, and trading,

one will have a day that she has to give up something, which is in fact a stoploss.

no matter she likes to taste or not.

Quoting lillelise
Naaa wrong....SL or no SL is like taste...
  • #330
  • Apr 10, 2012 11:45am Apr 10, 2012 11:45am
you can say that for yourself for sure

i understand that you trade that way since you trade for a living

but you cannot say "no full time trader......"

since there are some traders who trade for growth (not only for a living).

why should one NOT increase his lots?

Quoting Indrek
No full time trader is compounding like that, I guess. At least I do not. I usually keep my account size between 20,000-30,000 USD and not less than 10,000 USD, I trade 1 lot per trade and my minimal goal is to make 600 pip per month (although usual result is around 1000). At the end of every month I take my profit out.
Why should I calculate % of my account or why should I increase my lots?
  • #331
  • Edited 1:04pm Apr 10, 2012 12:52pm | Edited 1:04pm
Quoting fxtr51
I cannot believe that "experienced" traders know nothing about
virtual dealer plug-ins.
Either they lie or they are just ignorant or something else is
wrong with them.

Interesting that only the SL-missionaries here ridicule it although it
is fact.
There is a reason for that and they know it but will never admit it.

Nacho, please ban these guys.
They are only here to destroy your thread.
You think you are so smart don't you? Who hasn't heard of the Virtual Dealer Plugin (VDP) by now. You are not some prophet telling us something we don't already know, but apparently you are misinformed on what the dealer plugin does. Before I explain it however, I would first like to say that this particular software only applies to MetaTrader platforms. Anyway, VDP does not hunt your stop. It delays the execution of your order which usually results in slippage to the broker's favor. So what does that have to do with stop hunting? That they are bad guys who would try and cheat? Of course they do, tell us something no one knows. Does that mean that trading without a stop loss is better? I don't think so. I think you give these 'not-so-good guys' a free run at your money if you don't put up barriers (stop losses). Again, unrealized and realized are the same. If you don't think so, then try withdrawing the unrealized loss from your account.

Now I'd like to take this opportunity to make something clear, since some people are acting like this is a war between SL or no SL... I never said you can't make money trading without a SL. In fact, I encourage it if you are clueless as to how to trade. To me, and experienced traders will agree with me here, trading with a stop is the way to go because you can compound your gains. Not only compund them, but at an exponential rate. You can't do that with a no stop loss method. Now if you don't have the skill or discipline to trade, then yes go with a no stop loss strategy risking dollars for pennies. I will continue to risk pennies for dollars. Good luck!
  • #332
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:53pm Apr 10, 2012 12:53pm
Quoting charvo
with all due respect, and trust that courneywild's performance of last 30 days, i can't kill my doubt that how long he can keep doing this.

just a reminder to noobs.
Hi Chavro

You sucked me back in to this thread. Your right to doubt, I doubt most things said in FX until I test it myself!

Now slow down a bit please... wwwooo up there; I have never said anything remotely like your hypothesis in your post.
I have never said I could sustain that performance for any particular length of time... but I'll take it while I can :-)

I never said I could compound to a hypothetical 53 billion dollars... never said it, don't believe it, not interested in even trying for it.

I guess my point is whats the point of the hypothesis, you can't spend it so why do it.... just focus on what you can do, with something right here right now, and avoid wasting time working out if you can make this into a 53 billion mega jackpot in 5 years time....
Not interested, my focus is totally on the now, today. What profit can I bank today.

I don't trade the method posted by nacho on this thread. I trade my own, which is a variant of pitbull which has been a complete revelation to me and proving very consistent, however I'm not here to hijack the thread back to those days.

I do support free thinking and always look at these threads with interest to see if I can add to the thread or take from them.

Also a point on SL nor no SL, I do take losses on a trade (not via SL) and do not let a trade run to 1000s of pips negative, but I do have a way of taking those losses out whilst ensuring most of the time my balance (equity) grows... it is in fact almost the Holy Grail.... ROFL.

I'm a realist and fully understand "things change in the market," well all apart from one constant... and that one constant is nothing is guaranteed.

Have fun and good trading.

PS Hi to Moody.
  • #333
  • Edited 1:26pm Apr 10, 2012 1:02pm | Edited 1:26pm
Quoting fxtr51
Interesting too that the very good Elliott Wave trader who managed my live account, was losing most of his setups using StopLoss exactly how
using StopLoss is taught by the whole SL-crowd and their gurus.

And even more interesting that I had my live-account at
Gain Capital back then.

Only thing: back then I didnīt know about the Virtual Dealer Desk plugin
and nobody else did until the NFA published their findings.

It is interesting too that the SL-missionaries here badmouth that
excellent trader for doing exactly what they are here to teach:
for...
Why don't we just ban everybody with something reasonable to say that is contrary to what you believe? Wouldn't that make it easier for you?

Listen, if your trader friend lost all of your money, I can assure you he was in over his head. He lost not because he used a stop loss. He lost because he doesn't know how to trade. Like I said before, you can just as easily lose your money without a stop loss as you can with a stop because what's to stop the br0ker from running price against you all the way to margin call? Unrealized = realized. The sooner you acknowledge this, the sooner you are closer to being a trader. Otherwise you are an "investor" holding tiny positions for long periods of time.
  • #334
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:09pm Apr 10, 2012 1:09pm
everybody has a SL.....

some uses 5 -10-20 % and so on..

some uses all 100%

StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #335
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:18pm Apr 10, 2012 1:18pm
this is interesting

why u asked so many questions? or u just assumed that u know the answers of all of them?

if one has 200k, why do you think it is reasonable for him to trade 1 lot only (supposing he has a profitable system)?

these simple facts and truth are existing no matter how big i trade or how profitable i am

if u like to elaborate, go ahead with logical proof. don't say that in FF most ppl trade 0.01 lot...... so what? most ppl in FF are losing too.......

the street guys who manage billions, u think they don't need to mind % but only trade a few LOTS to earn their living everyday?

Quoting Indrek
How much would you increase your lots? Trading 10 lots per trade? 100 lots per trade? Would your psychology handle it? If making even 500 pips per month consistently (that is not very difficult to do) then sooner or later you will face this question.
Here in FF most people trade on demo or 0.01 lots that is, in fact, paper trading, too. How big lots are you trading? If less than 1 lot per trade with real money then it is not time yet to discuss the topic.
  • #336
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:20pm Apr 10, 2012 1:20pm
Quoting moodybot
So why are some of the posts so vocal in there non appreciation of not using a stoploss, and lets face it, some have been quite forward in getting their opinion across.

Its a sad fact that its the same few faces that have tried to destroy a few other threads that 'went against the establishment'.. ask yourself why?
I hope you aren't bunching me into this crowd. Like I've always said, you can make money with no stop loss. My contention is that compared to trading with a stop loss, no stop loss is much less profitable. First you have to know how to trade though. That involves experience and discipline.

Quoting moodybot
If a group of traders want to explore the possibility of not using a stoploss then let them get on with it, traders know what the potential dangers are..... and benefits, and what the f"ck has it got to do with anyone else, if someone doesn't want to use a stop then let them.

The forum has listened to the SL views but somehow I dont think they
are listening to the non SL views.

The must have brigade have expressed their views, its been noted, now let the thread evolve in the direction that the OP originally wanted.

If you must use a stop...
No one is trying to stop anyone from trading a certain way. I'm not at least. I'm only explaining why I trade with a stop and why it is more profitable than trading without a stop loss. In terms of compounding gains exponentially, it's simple math. You should be able to comprehend it in your mind without putting it down on paper. I'm also trying to explain how the "no-stop-is-safer" mentality is a fallacy since unrealized loss = realized loss. But again, if you can't trade profitably, then I recommend no stop loss. Just please don't come here and say you're a trader. You're an investor.
  • #337
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:23pm Apr 10, 2012 1:23pm
Quoting lillelise
everybody has a SL.....

some uses 5 -10-20 % and so on..

some uses all 100%

Even though that's true, that's not what this discussion is about. It's about whether to take small losses or take THE BIG ONE. Stating that everyone has a final stop (margin call) is not only obvious, but irrelevant to the debate.
  • #338
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:35pm Apr 10, 2012 1:35pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Even though that's true, that's not what this discussion is about. It's about whether to take small losses or take THE BIG ONE. Stating that everyone has a final stop (margin call) is not only obvious, but irrelevant to the debate.
actually an irrelevant discussion then......what counts is the results..

even i would claim..if you risk all...one day you gonna lose it..( refering to the law of the big numbers )

to discuss SL ..one need to know the system...
even moneymannegement count...where did the 2% rule come from ???
matematekly you can calculate excatly your lots sizes and risk...if you have enoughf trades to use for it..
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
  • #339
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:38pm Apr 10, 2012 1:38pm
Quoting rubber_ducky
Hey Nacho,
I like that you're going for the low risk strategy. I'm trying every day for the same thing.
If you're open to the possibility of opening an order with 0.02 lots you could have your TakeProfit (15 points) for 50% of your order (0.01 lots), and have the other 50% do a Trailing Stop (15 points) or a Step-Stop. That way you get the initial profit you're system would produce, and still get to trail additional profits will smaller risk (since you already have your profit from your TakeProfit).

I use the attached indicator for doing this...
Thanks so much for the ManageTP EA - have been looking for something like this all day, and this is perfect for what I needed!!! You're a star!!
  • #340
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:40pm Apr 10, 2012 1:40pm
sorry if my misunderstanding sounds offensive to you...... not meant that at all

just during these days i myself have been painfully meditating the fundamental truth of trading: SL/no SL, risk, randomness, edges...... those things...... therefore my questions are frank and too frank sometimes......

good luck to your trading. i know that u pitbulls guys been doing well for a while. in fact, i have tons of doubt in "pitbull method", but i am very interested to see how it plays out for you guys, and i hope to see you guys walk long and well on that road.

Quoting courtneywild
Hi Chavro

You sucked me back in to this thread. Your right to doubt, I doubt most things said in FX until I test it myself!

Now slow down a bit please... wwwooo up there; I have never said anything remotely like your hypothesis in your post.
I have never said I could sustain that performance for any particular length of time... but I'll take it while I can :-)
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