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  • #481
  • Apr 9, 2012 4:52pm Apr 9, 2012 4:52pm
Quoting bluesteele

BTW did you know Obama is not the president of the USA. nope he's not.
Ah wadda you know, you're a blue fag in Russian, lol

I had to escape that thread, the lunatics have taken over the asylum!
  • #482
  • Apr 9, 2012 5:02pm Apr 9, 2012 5:02pm
Quoting Custos

a verification by myself
That's the only way to evaluate a strategy
  • #483
  • Edited 5:26pm Apr 9, 2012 5:11pm | Edited 5:26pm
Quoting ohammond
Yes we are now in a different environment, but that doesn't mean its not as lucrative as the "bull years" as long as we're adaptable. There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000. We can't even begin to compare how we trade with how large funds trade, do they risk 2% of a $7 billion account on one single trade? of course they don't, so if we risk 2% of our account on a trade we should expect a much much higher return. There is no way on this...
There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000.

The average income in the UK is £25,000.........Thats just under £500 a week....

Hmmmm, To The average person in the UK, would you think they would be really comfortable risking there weeks wages on a trade....?

1 trade, 2% risk on £500 = £10

1 trade, 2% risk on £20,000 = £400

I have to disagree with your comments ohammond.....

do they risk 2% of a $7 billion account on one single trade? of course they don't,

I know the big funds can sometimes build up their exposure of 3%+ on a single trade.....

There is no way on this earth I would risk 2% per trade and be happy with a return of 22% a year!

What do you think would be a reasonable return then ?


Have a good week trading guys........Ja
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #484
  • Apr 9, 2012 5:58pm Apr 9, 2012 5:58pm
Quoting j4d
[color=Red]There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000.

The average income in the UK is £25,000.........Thats just under £500 a week....

Hmmmm, To The average person in the UK, would you think they would be really comfortable risking there weeks wages on a trade....?

1 trade, 2% risk on £500 = £10

1 trade, 2% risk on £20,000 = £400

I have to disagree with your comments ohammond.....

do they risk 2% of a $7 billion...
I agree with J4D to stop any confusion.

Stop looking at the big players in % term, they only make 100's of millions which retail pump into the market which is there profits sadly and they need billions to manipulate things and get moves started.

I've made 100% in a few hours on a Gold trade, risking 10% of my account, easy to do with a $100 account, would I risk with a $20,000 account, HELL NO!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #485
  • Apr 10, 2012 6:47am Apr 10, 2012 6:47am
Quoting ohammond
Yes we are now in a different environment, but that doesn't mean its not as lucrative as the "bull years" as long as we're adaptable. There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000. We can't even begin to compare how we trade with how large funds trade, do they risk 2% of a $7 billion account on one single trade? of course they don't, so if we risk 2% of our account on a trade we should expect a much much higher return. There is no way on this...
Totally agree. It is just common sense, something very few seem to apply on FF.

I aim for 10% growth of my trading capital a week, it suits me where I am at with my trading right now. I don't compound, it buggers up my concentration. Slow and steady growth is what I am comfortable with.
  • #486
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:29am Apr 10, 2012 7:29am
Quoting j4d
There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000.

The average income in the UK is £25,000.........Thats just under £500 a week....

Hmmmm, To The average person in the UK, would you think they would be really comfortable risking there weeks wages on a trade....?

1 trade, 2% risk on £500 = £10

1 trade, 2% risk on £20,000 = £400
Sorry, but the average person on £25,000 per year would probably not have £20,000 to put into an account, that is unless they won it on something, they were given it, or they built it up. In any of these scenarios, £400 is a reasonable amount of risk on £20,000 and its not 3 weeks wages, its not even 1 weeks wages.

Quote
I have to disagree with your comments ohammond....do they risk 2% of a $7 billion account on one single trade? of course they don't

I know the big funds can sometimes build up their exposure of 3%+ on a single trade.....
Maybe they do, but as you said, thats built up, probably over a long period of time, I am a daytrader so its an entirely different way of trading, if I built up my exposure to 3% over 6 months or a year then the amount they earn is a reasonable amount, I don't trade long term.

Quote
There is no way on this earth I would risk 2% per trade and be happy with a return of 22% a year!

What do you think would be a reasonable return then ?
I would say the same as jag above, 10% a week is a reasonable return for the risk and time taken.
  • #487
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:32am Apr 10, 2012 7:32am
Quoting Turveyd
I agree with J4D to stop any confusion.

Stop looking at the big players in % term, they only make 100's of millions which retail pump into the market which is there profits sadly and they need billions to manipulate things and get moves started.

I've made 100% in a few hours on a Gold trade, risking 10% of my account, easy to do with a $100 account, would I risk with a $20,000 account, HELL NO!!
Nobody mentioned taking a 1o% risk, I wouldn't do that with even $100 there's no point, its a waste of money. Take reasonable trades with reasonable risk, but there is no point to risking 2% per trade and being happy with 22% a year. Its J4D who is trying to compare us with the big players.
  • #488
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:37am Apr 10, 2012 7:37am
The amount you risk per trade can not be an arbitrary amount, it has to be based on data..

Its a simple calculation based on your win/loss ratio and your risk to reward... then you can set your maximum risk per trade ..

http://2ndskiesforex.com/strategies-...u-should-know/
tradewith60
  • #489
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:42am Apr 10, 2012 7:42am
Quoting 60minuteman
The amount you risk per trade can not be an arbitrary amount, it has to be based on data..

Its a simple calculation based on your win/loss ratio and your risk to reward... then you can set your maximum risk per trade ..

http://2ndskiesforex.com/strategies-...u-should-know/
The percent risk figure remains constant according to the stop size in pips. We can only trade the gaps to SR that any given set up gives us.
  • #490
  • Apr 10, 2012 9:18am Apr 10, 2012 9:18am
Quoting LazyPawn
when talking about how the system would have performed in the last month/year/10 years then it has nothing to do with belief. If the rules are clearly defined everybody should be able to test them and they should all get identical results. That's exactly why systems that really worked were and are very clearly defined (such as the turtles that was mentioned above)
I totally agree.

I laugh at all those systems with a lot of cheap psychology but not clear rules for entries and exits, how can somebody follow them?

I laugh too at all those systems with rules that when you backtest them you realize that they don't work, how can somebody follow them?

These both are 99% of systems posted here in FF...

People are sheeple.
  • #491
  • Apr 10, 2012 9:37am Apr 10, 2012 9:37am
Quoting bluesteele
None of his students who are now professionals and use Larry's methods do not have any audited records. LOL....

As as I dont know who is, and who isnt a student of Larry Williams, could you do me a massive favour and name me one ?
  • #492
  • Edited 12:20pm Apr 10, 2012 9:45am | Edited 12:20pm
Quoting ohammond
Nobody mentioned taking a 1o% risk, I wouldn't do that with even $100 there's no point, its a waste of money. Take reasonable trades with reasonable risk, but there is no point to risking 2% per trade and being happy with 22% a year. Its J4D who is trying to compare us with the big players.
Its J4D who is trying to compare us with the big players.

Hey ohammond, Im trying to ascertain what the average return is for a retail trader that has positive returns over a minimum of at least a year. I know what my returns are, due to my experiences. But there's a lot of people in here think that 20-30% a year is bullshit......
They say their returning a lot more ..I am interested in what the average is, without the bullshit. wouldn't we all really like to know, so we can gauge our performance, perhaps I'm the only one who is interested ?

One of the well known analytical websites , has a total of $190,732,600.26 in group funds (real money) from retail traders that this web site analysis.there are thousands of traders who use this site.

The average size account is about $18,000

Some of the traders keep there statistics private but from what I can see most don't.

Out of thousands of traders who use this Website how many traders, who trade manually, return more than 20% in one years trading (live accounts only).......................................


13 traders.............(unlucky for some)


So can you guys see my point...?

Now I'm not trying to slate anyone, I wish the VERY BEST to everyone who decides to walk the learning path of the FX retail industry, Ive been in this game a long time, hell, it took me over 7 years to start getting positive returns each year..blood, sweat and tears is what it takes to be profitable in this industry ( well it was for me lol)...

Hey Guys this is all that Im asking, there are some retail traders returning huge amounts over the last few years, but these people are very few and far between.

The very best to you all.......Ja

http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/quote.gif

Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #493
  • Edited 10:52am Apr 10, 2012 10:28am | Edited 10:52am
Quoting j4d
[color=Red]Its J4D who is trying to compare us with the big players.[color=Black]

Hey ohammond, Im trying to ascertain what the average return is for a retail trader that has positive returns over a minimum of at least a year. I know what my returns are, do to my experiences. But there's a lot of people in here think that 20-30% a year is bullshit......
They say their returning a lot more ..I am interested in what the average is, without the bullshit. wouldn't we all really like to know, so we can gauge our performance,...

The thing is J4, everyone's results are directly related to their own discipline, therefore asking for audited accounts is worthless IMHO. All you are really getting is a measure of their own discipline NOT the reliability of their method / system.

My method is well above 95% reliable if my rules are followed to the letter, many others here have methods that will yield fantastic results if followed properly. Very very few have the discipline to follow rules.

That is why I couldn't give a toss about any-ones individual results, all I am interested in is the robustness and longevity of the method.

P.S. there really are many guys on this forum that do between 1 - 10% a day I obviously have no idea of their account sizes but I know for certain it isn't unreasonable to expect some accounts are £20k - £50k and they will be making those daily percentages. If you want to know who those people are you have to do your own painstaking research, just like I did.
  • #494
  • Apr 10, 2012 11:25am Apr 10, 2012 11:25am
Quoting jag1966
The thing is J4, everyone's results are directly related to their own discipline, therefore asking for audited accounts is worthless IMHO. All you are really getting is a measure of their own discipline NOT the reliability of their method / system.

My method is well above 95% reliable if my rules are followed to the letter, many others here have methods that will yield fantastic results if followed properly. Very very few have the discipline to follow rules.

That is why I couldn't give a toss about any-ones individual results, all I am interested...
there really are many guys on this forum that do between 1 - 10% a day

Hey, I'm in the wrong business................ : )

I wish all you guys the best.....Ja.
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #495
  • Apr 10, 2012 11:44am Apr 10, 2012 11:44am
Quoting j4d

Im trying to ascertain what the average return is for a retail trader that has positive returns over a minimum of at least a year.
Hi j4d

I think you'd need more information to be able to come up with any sort of meaningful statistic, for example how much time do they spend trading, with what equity, what's their risk, do they compound and if so, how. Then you'd need to analyse what kind of trader they are, their experience, and over how many years that return is averaged, where they live (time zone), sessions traded etc etc etc......I'm not sure just saying 20% a year or 10% a day (seriously, 10% a day!) really means very much on it's own does it?
  • #496
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:05pm Apr 10, 2012 12:05pm
Quoting pipmutt
Hi j4d

I think you'd need more information to be able to come up with any sort of meaningful statistic, for example how much time do they spend trading, with what equity, what's their risk, do they compound and if so, how. Then you'd need to analyse what kind of trader they are, their experience, and over how many years that return is averaged, where they live (time zone), sessions traded etc etc etc......I'm not sure just saying 20% a year or 10% a day (seriously, 10% a day!) really means very much on it's own does it?
why does 10% a day sound so absurd pipmutt? what am i missing?

So if i risk 2% a trade and i shorted gj and ej on h4, and gj went to 3/1 and ej 2/1... that would give me 10%... thats nothing more than an average days move on those pairs...?

i didnt screen shot everything at entry, but here's gj..... i was even 15 pips late on entry... if you can read bias and s/r 10% is very doable (is that a word?)

and my h4 pin on au, and all the other au shorts ive taken last week... some running to 4/1 r/r
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gj.jpg Size: 82 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: au.jpg Size: 95 KB
tradewith60
  • #497
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:15pm Apr 10, 2012 12:15pm
Quoting 60minuteman
why does 10% a day sound so absurd pipmutt? what am i missing?

So if i risk 2% a trade and i shorted gj and ej on h4, and gj went to 3/1 and ej 2/1... that would give me 10%... thats nothing more than an average days move on those pairs...?

i didnt screen shot everything at entry, but here's gj..... i was even 15 pips late on entry... if you can read bias and s/r 10% is very doable (is that a word?)

and my h4 pin on au, and all the other au shorts ive taken last week... some running to 4/1 r/r
Exactly, you have a very high probability method 60mm, the weak link will be the person trading it. As always.
  • #498
  • Edited 12:43pm Apr 10, 2012 12:15pm | Edited 12:43pm
Quoting pipmutt
Hi j4d

I think you'd need more information to be able to come up with any sort of meaningful statistic, for example how much time do they spend trading, with what equity, what's their risk, do they compound and if so, how. Then you'd need to analyse what kind of trader they are, their experience, and over how many years that return is averaged, where they live (time zone), sessions traded etc etc etc......I'm not sure just saying 20% a year or 10% a day (seriously, 10% a day!) really means very much on it's own does it?
Hey P,

Its really very basic........

We are in the making money game right...we all want to make money right.

I dont care how people trade if there successful, they could be spinning on their head while making pizza doe with there feet, while executing a martingale system with their eyes closed.....

What is the average a successful retail trader returns in % after 1 years worth of trading.

Thats it, nothing more nothing less, I was just interested on peoples realistic thoughts..(no bullshit)

This is my last post on this thread, Im starting to question my sanity...lol

Best wishes to all .............Ja
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #499
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:36pm Apr 10, 2012 12:36pm
Quoting j4d
Hey P,

Its really very basic........

We are in the making money game right...we all want to make money right.

I dont care how people trade if there successful, they could be spinning on their head while making pizza doe with there feet, while executing a martingale system with their eyes closed.....

What is the average a successful retail trader returns in % after 1 years worth of trading.

Thats it, nothing more nothing less, I was just interested on peoples realistic thoughts..(no bullshit)

This is my last post on this...
Who are you asking, who do you expect to give you an answer you would believe? You seem to have done some research but that 13 people figure means nothing as far as I am concerned.

One guy I traded with showed me he traded 10 lots, he made between 400 and 800 pips a week on average, he called his trades live, he won 77% of all his trades. I spent over a year with him.

That information costs money and time, but there are ways.
  • #500
  • Apr 10, 2012 1:08pm Apr 10, 2012 1:08pm
Quoting j4d

Its really very basic........
That's my point, too basic! It's like the 95% stat which gets thrown about, meaningless. Who makes up the 100%? Looking around these forums and others like it I would hazard a guess that 80% are complete morons trying to make a fast buck and earn a living with nickel and dime accounts. Kinda turns that stat upside down.


Quoting j4d

Im starting to question my sanity...lol
Me too........yours, not mine!


Quoting j4d

Best wishes to all .............Ja
To you too
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