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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #281
  • Apr 9, 2012 11:39am Apr 9, 2012 11:39am
Bluesteele
Dedmatvey...what can I say who the hell calls themselves Dead..I dunno???


I just have to say a few words to that: I am real sorry about a trader being so illiterate that he cannot read a word of four letters in his native language...
My language is Russian where Ded (three letters) means "old man".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Incidentally, "blue" translated into Russian means Fag...
Cheers
  • #282
  • Apr 9, 2012 12:41pm Apr 9, 2012 12:41pm
Quote

NACHO... Nacho may I suggest to clear things up head on over to :
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=297516

I have spent already quite a lot of time on that thread.

I think you are losing the focus here. The main point in this thread is NOT whether using a SL is good or bad, I did not mean to revamp the old battle SL vs no SL.

The method I am using and I am trying to develop with the help of those who want to take what I wrote in the first post as a starting point, is in great part based on not using a predefined SL as the title of the thread might suggest. You might not like it, but that's it.

So we should get past this SLvsnoSL thing because here the option of using the SL have been already discarded from the very beginning.
  • #283
  • Apr 9, 2012 12:58pm Apr 9, 2012 12:58pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Hi Nacho,
I hope you will find the below helpful

Well, WHY GROUPS?

1.Everybody knows that the main principle of trading is: BUY LOW/SELL HIGH.
But with the average of 30(+/-) most offered by brokerage companies
currency pairs you can wait for months or even years to see a high or low of an individual pair. That is why people HAVE to trade the way they do now, i.e. buying/selling miles from high/low - I agree that in trading like this the stoploss is simply necessary/obligatory.
Just a very different matter with pairs' combinations which...
Thanks DedMatvey,

I would like to know more about your strategy if you dont mind.
You said you find buy/sell opportunities based on a set of parameters you defined could you go further into that and into the excel spreadsheet you set up?

Another question is: How do you design the currency groups you trade?
Problem I find is that for example if I open positions where USD is inside, I am relying basically on the performance of USD against the others so if i go long on lets say audusd, euruds and gbpusd, and USD drops, I generally have floating losses on all these 3 open position, so I have to for the USD to "recover" in order to close all three.

Therefore I am trying to diversify the positions I open, but that sometimes means higher spreads.
  • #284
  • Apr 9, 2012 12:58pm Apr 9, 2012 12:58pm
Exactly, well said nancho ,if u dont like it move on , all iam trying to say is predefined s/l will get taken out by mkt rythum , ask 95% of all retail fx traders , they all use s/l . Start thinking out the box a bit people , u are being herded like sheep into useing predefined crap that cannot hold up against big money moves . Not having a s/l doesnt mean u have to hold onto a trade come hell or high water , if u think its wrong then u get the hell out or hedge it but dont let your fucking broker decide for u with a s/l . Ntural rythym of mkt will take out any 30/50 pip s/l .Learn to see how and why the mkt moves up and down on a daily bases,moveing in a predefined up or down TREND and i can assure you my friend you will have the goose .
  • #285
  • Edited 1:53pm Apr 9, 2012 1:18pm | Edited 1:53pm
Quoting Jse Alsi

ask 95% of all retail fx traders , they all use s/l
lol, 95% don't lose because they use a stop, they lose because they have no concept of trading!


Quoting Jse Alsi
dont let your fucking broker decide for u with a s/l
You don't like your brøker much do you! Mine is my best friend, he facilitates my trading, and the market offers endless opportunities, all I have to do is take them. Your trading sounds like you go to war with the market and your brøker every day, whereas I go to work as a trader, I know which I prefer!
  • #286
  • Apr 9, 2012 1:28pm Apr 9, 2012 1:28pm
Quoting Jse Alsi
, all iam trying to say is predefined s/l will get taken out by mkt rythum , ask 95% of all retail fx traders , they all use s/l .
Yes, and when a sl-trader is placing a SL because he believes in it
and he is doing according to what the SL-believers is teaching their followers,
he is called an "idiot" and "display of trading ineptness" .

That makes so much sense and thatŽs why 95 % lose part or all of their money.

Stoploss hunting is fact. The brokers have software for it.
Whoever is calling this a "conspiracy theory" is either a complete newbie or he is a broker mole or maybe something else is wrong with him.

Click, click, click

Nacho, of course your method works .... if you place a hedge at a certain level or take the loss. That way you will never lose your account.
It is so obvious and simple.

I have shown you that lock-unlock works fine too.
Allows me to trade with 1% initial risk or higher.

ThatŽs all.

Since you are the thread starter, why donŽt you ban the hijackers and only allow those who contribute in a usefull way ?
  • #287
  • Edited 2:03pm Apr 9, 2012 1:35pm | Edited 2:03pm
Quoting Nacho

So we should get past this SLvsnoSL thing because here the option of using the SL have been already discarded from the very beginning.
Fair enough, so the only problem you say you've got is....
Quoting Nacho

The only bad thing is that a trade can stay open for days or weeks before reaching TP. But as I could see by testing, more than 90% of trades reach TP within 48 hrs.

Unfortunately you've tested out your strategy for a very short period in a ranging market, ie optimal market conditions for a strategy like this. The problem you say you're worried about, and that you will eventually face, is that price might go against you for a long period of time and tie up your valuable equity, have I got that right?

One 'solution' to your problem that I can see (and it's not really a solution, it's more of a mind pacifier for people who can't stomach a loss) is to reduce exposure on the losing position(s) as you make money on your winning position(s), thereby your equity remains the same and it doesn't feel like you've taken a loss. The whole exercise is slightly pointless as you'll be more or less treading water but hey ho.

Another choice might be to look at options and such as a hedge rather than some inane idea about freezing or locking losses by having positions of equal size in opposite directions on the same pair! You do know why they call it 'nedging', right?

Neither are really solutions, the bottom line is you would be infinitely better off learning to trade and adjusting your thinking to that of a trader, but you're adamant you want to go with it so.......I think we were all adamant we had the grail in the early stages of our trading and we ignored what turned out to be sensible advice, it just took us time and money to prove to ourselves that we were in fact wrong. It's a good educational exercise as long as you don't lose too much money!

I wish you well in your endeavour but it wouldn't sit well with me to help someone put their hand in the fire when I know what the inevitable outcome will be.

Good luck!
  • #288
  • Apr 9, 2012 1:40pm Apr 9, 2012 1:40pm
Quoting fxtr51

ThatŽs all.
We live in hope!
  • #289
  • Apr 9, 2012 1:54pm Apr 9, 2012 1:54pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Could you please tell me in a little more detail about what you do to open and close your trades? I will tell you about my ways and what they are based on.
Let it be a start of the discussion inside our very small group. Who knows, with
one trader a day joining, what a team can we grow?
I trade my own system that is just regular trading but with hedging instead of SL. First, I pause the losing trade with opposite equal order of the same pair. Later I take decision what to do next. For example, I may use other pairs to get out of the hedge. Pairs that are correlated to the initial one. And, of course, I am taking other trades at the time when the hedge is not yet solved.
  • #290
  • Apr 9, 2012 2:17pm Apr 9, 2012 2:17pm
Quoting Indrek
I trade my own system that is just regular trading but with hedging instead of SL. First, I pause the losing trade with opposite equal order of the same pair. Later I take decision what to do next. For example, I may use other pairs to get out of the hedge. Pairs that are correlated to the initial one.
Hi Indrek,
Sorry, but I am far from this method, so I am feeling confused to give my comments, simply don't know what to say...
I think, if you feel happy about your gains, why go somewhere else?
If you think you can find something of use in my approach, I have already placed a few posts on it, some in this thread, some more in >Trading Discussion>
Are you a consistently profitable trader?>
I am open for inquiries, so feel free to come with any questions you may have.
All the best.
  • #291
  • Apr 9, 2012 2:40pm Apr 9, 2012 2:40pm
I would suggest this method negates the main thing that makes trading so attractive: limited risk / unlimited profits.....

....and hedging a negative position will most times delay the inevitable.
I've got my pips - go get yours!
  • #292
  • Apr 9, 2012 2:44pm Apr 9, 2012 2:44pm
Quoting pipmutt
We live in hope!
Are you the Pope ?
He says "We" but he means himself.
  • #293
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:00pm Apr 9, 2012 3:00pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Sorry, but I am far from this method, so I am feeling confused to give my comments, simply don't know what to say...
You have no obligation to comment on my method. Just you asked how I manage my trades and I answered.
I trade mostly 4 hour charts now. Used to trade lower but then realized that spending my life behind the charts is the most stupid thing to do. Now I can take care of trading with 30-40 minutes per day and that's it.
Mathematically, hedging is the same than using SL but for me SL seems too simple. I can do better than just write off the losses. Besides, it is fun to play with open positions, combine and recombine them.
If to refine the entries and to set BE at proper times, only maybe 10% of trades appear to be losers and need hedging. It is not much, these trades just run at the background and do not mess anything up.
Entries are the key to success for me, everything else is beauty of game and matter of technical (mathematical) skill.
  • #294
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:01pm Apr 9, 2012 3:01pm
i dont understand why you dont look at lazypawns post,its very clear,

ive tested for 18 months a no stop loss systems.the maths will amaze you.
long term its not possible.

the fact not one post here suggests what you need to do to defy this realism,tells me your all wasting your time and money.

let me say this,if you close 1 loosing trade it may have a positive or negative effect longterm on the overall result,but its pure luck as to wether that 1 trade you closed at a loss would infact have been a positive closing trade to skew the overall outcome.you would not know,hence the end result when this whole sequence finishes would be unown.you have to know what your trying to do by trading with no stops period.otherwise how can you gain a positive outcome.

for anybody who understands this,ill give you a clue as to were you maybe able to skewer the sequence .hedging initself just delays the outcome and you will still not know if the outcome is positive or negative.look at hedging were you limit the risk on your loss side and stand to cover the drawdown on your floating loss trades,then you maybe able to adjust the outcome
  • #295
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:03pm Apr 9, 2012 3:03pm
Dear Fellow Traders,
To my shame, I start feeling bored staying in this thread because I have the strong feeling that we are turning what was initially a very interesting subject and thread into just a bla-bla show. Perhaps it is time to put an end to this?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As an alternative (I am applying now to all honorable ordinary traders of Nacho-Indrek-DedMatvey party), I suggest that we gather a group of volunteers, open demo accounts (one for each participant) and start trading the way we can next Monday. While trading, we can discuss whatever we think may be useful or interesting to us (we can start another thread for it).
We will see what we will have after one month, exchange views/opinions on the results - thus, it will be easier for everyone to make up his/her mind about what to do further.
Sincerely your friend.
  • #296
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:15pm Apr 9, 2012 3:15pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Dear Fellow Traders,
To my shame, I start feeling bored staying in this thread because I have the strong feeling that we are turning what was initially a very interesting subject and thread into just a bla-bla show. Perhaps it is time to put an end to this?
I think that I will just stay quiet in the future... I trade for living and it is a bit strange for me to hear from demo traders that I am doing things absolutely wrong...
I certainly do not recommend to trade without any SL. But hedging or not - it is matter of taste. Arguing about taste is senseless.
I also understand that no br*ker can accept such method of managing trades. And will do everything possible to mess up threads like this one.
  • #297
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:24pm Apr 9, 2012 3:24pm
Hi Indrek,

...take care of trading with 30-40 minutes per day and that's it.
even less in my case

Mathematically, hedging is the same than using SL but for me SL seems too simple.
???????????????????for me

Besides, it is fun to play with open positions, combine and recombine them.
Do the same when think it's proper to be done, must be cautious with this.

If to refine the entries and to set BE at proper times, only maybe 10% of trades appear to be losers and need hedging. It is not much, these trades just run at the background and do not mess anything up.
I sometimes have a trade or two in the background, too.
  • #298
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:27pm Apr 9, 2012 3:27pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Besides, it is fun to play with open positions, combine and recombine them.
Do the same when think it's proper to be done, must be cautious with this.
Just need to have a proper account size that allows to keep trades even in deep floating loss if sth really bad happens. But best recipe is not to take stupid entries
  • #299
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:42pm Apr 9, 2012 3:42pm
Quoting Indrek
I think that I will just stay quiet in the future... I trade for living and it is a bit strange for me to hear from demo traders that I am doing things absolutely wrong...
I certainly do not recommend to trade without any SL. But hedging or not - it is matter of taste. Arguing about taste is senseless.
I also understand that no br*ker can accept such method of managing trades. And will do everything possible to mess up threads like this one.
I hope, you don't mean to be forced/pressed into something - everything is up to one him/herself.
Have been managing a number of accounts with 5 br*kers - have not noticed anything special except for some minor details in the terms.
  • #300
  • Apr 9, 2012 3:46pm Apr 9, 2012 3:46pm
Quoting Indrek
Just need to have a proper account size that allows to keep trades even in deep floating loss if sth really bad happens. But best recipe is not to take stupid entries
I think you are absolutely right about it.
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