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  • #441
  • Apr 8, 2012 9:49am Apr 8, 2012 9:49am
Quoting Custos
would be interested, which kind of municipal bond gives out 20-30% profit per year?
Maybe he's found some bonds that repaint.
  • #442
  • Apr 8, 2012 9:55am Apr 8, 2012 9:55am
what is a reasonable amount to aim for...? what is believable ?

I had a friend from school who worked for a fund, the traders targets were 5% a month... but they were all about small risk..

I consider 6-8% a good day, and 13-20% a good week.. risking 2% a trade and aiming for 1/1 risk reward.... I don't think they're outlandish claims?...
tradewith60
  • #443
  • Apr 8, 2012 11:42am Apr 8, 2012 11:42am
Quoting KillerWhale

20-30% Profit in a year?

Why don't you just buy some nice municipal bonds and save yourself the trouble of trading?
You wish!
  • #444
  • Apr 8, 2012 1:23pm Apr 8, 2012 1:23pm
Quoting 60minuteman
.... I don't think they're outlandish claims?...
Name me ONE single trader with a publically audited track record who achieved anything like a quarter of what you are suggesting.

I can name you ONE trader who ALMOST averaged 2% a day for one single financial year, but the same guy has lost billions during his career, and he's been fired from a half a dozen funds over the past 20 years.

Those types of returns are simply impossible to achieve, and impossible to sustain.
  • #445
  • Apr 8, 2012 1:49pm Apr 8, 2012 1:49pm
Quoting 60minuteman
what is a reasonable amount to aim for...? what is believable ?

I had a friend from school who worked for a fund, the traders targets were 5% a month... but they were all about small risk..

I consider 6-8% a good day, and 13-20% a good week.. risking 2% a trade and aiming for 1/1 risk reward.... I don't think they're outlandish claims?...

Hey 60...First of all Good job on your trading. I know your claims are not outlandish. Your a disciplined trader with a very very viable plan.
Time will tell of course how your numbers average out.

Most traders are their very worst own enemies because they lack the discipline required over the long haul.

My best advice to any trader is to keep a very detailed trade journal. It is of the utmost importance IMHO.

For ex... As a bodybuilder I can look at my journal and tell you exactly on any day what my weight was. How many sets and reps of every exercise performed that day. What I ate that day how many grams of protein etc...
Which rep I failed on. Minutes of cardio performed at what speed or intensity.

95% at least... of others in the gym do not keep a journal of any sort. Then they wonder why their results are mediocre at best. They always comment on my progress. Hmmmm wonder why....

I dont remember if you use a journal or not.??? If not now would be a great time to start.

Your method is very very sound and so the only thing that I can see that will change your numbers is you. Your the variable not the system.
So keep track of it all. Keep track of your moods, track your sleep etc..

Be as disciplined as fuck and your numbers will reflect it. It is absolute necessary as your acct grows to a substantial level. Once your acct is at a substantial level I dont believe this growth can be sustained. This is not to say tho that you cant still have good returns to live on.

Cheers
Blue
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #446
  • Apr 8, 2012 1:51pm Apr 8, 2012 1:51pm
Quoting Razzle
Name me ONE single trader with a publically audited track record who achieved anything like a quarter of what you are suggesting.

I can name you ONE trader who ALMOST averaged 2% a day for one single financial year, but the same guy has lost billions during his career, and he's been fired from a half a dozen funds over the past 20 years.

Those types of returns are simply impossible to achieve, and impossible to sustain.

How bout old Larry Williams...
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #447
  • Apr 8, 2012 2:55pm Apr 8, 2012 2:55pm
Quoting 60minuteman

I consider 6-8% a good day, and 13-20% a good week.. risking 2% a trade and aiming for 1/1 risk reward.... I don't think they're outlandish claims?...
Doubling your account every 2-4 weeks?
  • #448
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:08pm Apr 8, 2012 3:08pm
Quoting bluesteele

How bout old Larry Williams...
10k to 1m in a year, but could he repeat it year on year with the same amount?

Anyone know what his strategy was/is?
  • #449
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:23pm Apr 8, 2012 3:23pm
Quoting pipmutt
10k to 1m in a year, but could he repeat it year on year with the same amount?

Anyone know what his strategy was/is?
His strategy was competition trading, which is usually a one off, then do the seminar, book, trading course circuit which has paid the bills ever since.

No claims have ever been substantiated by any of his students of duplicating his one time success, and his daughter's winnings have been grossly exaggerated. (she did very well one year converting 10K to 100K, which is not too shabby, but it's a far cry from a repeat performance)
  • #450
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:28pm Apr 8, 2012 3:28pm
Been profitable a few times, 6months+ the last time, then market conditions change then have to work out whats working for it, re learn how to trade those new rules then 1 week to 6 months later when it stops working I give back most of my profits before realising it's not just a bad run and it's not working and repeat!!

Market conditions might go back to a version where a previous version / setup would work, but damned if I can remember all of my exact versions and rules so it's always back to basics and rebuild / back test hassle.

Trying to build a batch of systems, M1, M5 and M15 currently then if 1 is currently working to a system then I use that on that pair in the hope it'll keep working, but just adds to the complexity of it all.


Trading, is likely the hardest thing to actually beat that is going.

Sucks, I should be rich already
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #451
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:29pm Apr 8, 2012 3:29pm
Quoting bluesteele
Hey 60...First of all Good job on your trading. I know your claims are not outlandish. Your a disciplined trader with a very very viable plan.
Time will tell of course how your numbers average out.

Most traders are their very worst own enemies because they lack the discipline required over the long haul.

My best advice to any trader is to keep a very detailed trade journal. It is of the utmost importance IMHO.

For ex... As a bodybuilder I can look at my journal and tell you exactly on any day what my weight was. How many sets and reps of every...
i agree ,whilst trading your account in the earlier part its not unusual for large % account growth,but as the no,s grow it becomes much harder to continue with such growth,the mental issues come into play .but having said that there are some with nerves of steel .

what i do is risk more than most and dont stick to a 2 % or fixed risk,i take my previous 50 trades and average the no,s of loosing trades to winning trades.then work my risk accordingly,so if my system is performing well my risk can be as much as 6 % per trade.
  • #452
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:32pm Apr 8, 2012 3:32pm
It's so much easier to be greedy than logical.

The house never lets its chips get too low before squeezing out the weaklings

Quoting Brotyboy
Missed out on the discussion a couple of weeks back, but thought some of you might be interested in this pic of the Euro poll taken on the 30th November 2010, particularly in the second name of those expecting it to be below 1.2000 by December. Four months on; still over a thousand pips out.
Skype: heliosphan187
  • #453
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:35pm Apr 8, 2012 3:35pm
Quoting pipmutt
10k to 1m in a year, but could he repeat it year on year with the same amount?

Anyone know what his strategy was/is?
Yeah I actually have copies of all of his trades...Now it's been yrs since I last looked at them but I believe he was up close to 2 mill and took some losses or had floating losses when contest ended????

OF course Larry's Robbins Cup numbers are nothing compared to Dan Zangers performance. Holy shitballs.

He has I believe the #1 audited performance. 29,000+ %
12 mths $11,000 to 18 mill. then turned that into 42 mill.

As Mr Sandler wud say... Not too shabby... LOL
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #454
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:40pm Apr 8, 2012 3:40pm
Quoting Fudomyo
His strategy was competition trading, which is usually a one off, then do the seminar, book, trading course circuit which has paid the bills ever since.

No claims have ever been substantiated by any of his students of duplicating his one time success, and his daughter's winnings have been grossly exaggerated. (she did very well one year converting 10K to 100K, which is not too shabby, but it's a far cry from a repeat performance)

Sure I agree thats what Robbins is all about. Hit it big in the comp then do the whole speaker book teaching gig.

I personally know several of Larry's personally mentored students who to this day do very very well.

Larry trades his own dough and shares his statements with students and even I believe with his web members.

He is one of the few teachers that really trades his own dough.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #455
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:41pm Apr 8, 2012 3:41pm
Quoting pipmutt
Doubling your account every 2-4 weeks?
the important word in the statement was "good" day and "good" week..

average day and week obviously different...
tradewith60
  • #456
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:50pm Apr 8, 2012 3:50pm
Quoting bluesteele
Sure I agree thats what Robbins is all about. Hit it big in the comp then do the whole speaker book teaching gig.

I personally know several of Larry's personally mentored students who to this day do very very well.

Larry trades his own dough and shares his statements with students and even I believe with his web members.

He is one of the few teachers that really trades his own dough.
I think he had to have something going for him to do that well in the first place. I was commenting about managing expectations on duplicating that kind of ROE.
  • #457
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:57pm Apr 8, 2012 3:57pm
Ok, now I'm feeling really inadequate!
  • #458
  • Apr 8, 2012 3:59pm Apr 8, 2012 3:59pm
Quoting bluesteele

Yeah I actually have copies of all of his trades...
Wow, so what was the strategy, did he use his own indicators?
  • #459
  • Apr 8, 2012 4:00pm Apr 8, 2012 4:00pm
Quoting 60minuteman
what is a reasonable amount to aim for...? what is believable ?

I had a friend from school who worked for a fund, the traders targets were 5% a month... but they were all about small risk..

I consider 6-8% a good day, and 13-20% a good week.. risking 2% a trade and aiming for 1/1 risk reward.... I don't think they're outlandish claims?...
Hey 60,

If its correct that you say you are managing 15% a week, you are doing what most of the professionals can't do, so if you are correct with your figures a massive well done to you. 60 % a month with compounding interest is, well phenomenal.

Now there probably is the odd trader doing these sort of %, but there probably on a small account, and for a few months and not year in year out.

I would be interested to know 60 if that's for a minimum of 1 year, or 2 years etc. As lets face it we are all in this for the long haul, right.

Every year I go skiing with 9 friends, 3 of them are traders, One trades south African stocks for a south African Investment bank based in London, one has "retired" recently, my retired friend was one of the head traders at Tosca fund, also based in London.My other friend is a retail trader, his main job isnt trading but for the last 3 years has averaged just over 22% a year on his equity, I myself % wise do something similar to my retail friend. we were introduced to the markets by our "pro" friends.....

My retail friend and I have been trading for about a decade, non profitable for about 7 years, the usual yo-yoing of accounts etc profitable the last few years, even with friends in the pro business our learning path was this long....My other 2 "professional" friends have been in the industry since they have left school (we are all mid 40's).

Now I Know the how the "pro's" do it, I can say that it is worlds a-part from us retail guys, the volume difference is incredible for starters, Tosca's main fund was just over 7 billion (7 yards) circa 2007, after 2008 a few yards less. just entering the market with there large multiple open positions is a discussion in itself. Generally the retail industry is trading there own account, or a Pamm account ( if there trading OPM ).

My Pro Friends say the benchmark per annum is 20%, below is a pat on the back, small bonus (gutted), just above, is better bonus time in january : ).
Now post oct "08" the big guys have found it tough they say volume is well down, and the industry as a whole is licking its wounds, the sub-prime shit brought everything back with a huge reality check.......If you can trade 20% + a year on at least a 5 figure account your doing well.

Before it hit the fan in "08" the bull years for these big funds were very lucrative, 60-70-80 % per annum was the norm for some, the Bull market environment leading up to the crash as I say was very lucrative, we are now in a totally different environment, any of you guys who even have an account that is plus at the end of the year are doing well (better than some funds), I don't mean trading a $500 dollar account either, say at least $20,000 as there is a very big difference in trading the two different volumes. So this is what I know in my part of the world, sorry to those who had expectation's of earning a living of a 10,000 account it probably isn't going to happen..

I wish everyone the best with there trading

Happy trading JA.
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #460
  • Apr 8, 2012 4:31pm Apr 8, 2012 4:31pm
Quoting j4d
Before it hit the fan in "08" the bull years for these big funds were very lucrative, 60-70-80 % per annum was the norm for some, the Bull market environment leading up to the crash as I say was very lucrative, we are now in a totally different environment, any of you guys who even have an account that is plus at the end of the year are doing well (better than some funds), I don't mean trading a $500 dollar account either, say at least $20,000 as there is a very big difference in trading the two different volumes. So this is what I know...
Yes we are now in a different environment, but that doesn't mean its not as lucrative as the "bull years" as long as we're adaptable. There is no difference trading a $500 account and a $20,000 account. The difference would be noticeable over $1,000,000 but certainly not $20,000. We can't even begin to compare how we trade with how large funds trade, do they risk 2% of a $7 billion account on one single trade? of course they don't, so if we risk 2% of our account on a trade we should expect a much much higher return. There is no way on this earth I would risk 2% per trade and be happy with a return of 22% a year!
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