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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #41
  • Apr 1, 2012 2:47pm Apr 1, 2012 2:47pm
Quoting isaacyassar
Nacho, with your 1:1 leverage you can indeed take a huge amount of pips of floating loss.

But think about this, what if you come to this point where a trade has been going against you for 2 months, you do everything you can but not working well, and floating loss combined with growing negative swap now threaten 50% of your total account.

What would you do? 2 options

1. Cut loss, losing 50% of your total account as a reward for trading for 2 months with the most hard-working analysis you can come up with?

2. Keep the trade open and stay...
You are right, I'm basically risking it all for 15 pips and I am conscious of it. The idea I'm believing in is that as long as I trade small and I have probabilities in my favour this will not happen, and before I arrive to lose half my account I think I'll have already have found some counter measures such as hedging the losing position (still have to figure out the rules), or the sum of other succesful trades will compensate for one big loss (That would still mean a waste of time, but at least not a waste of money)

Time will prove me right or wrong...
  • #42
  • Apr 1, 2012 2:51pm Apr 1, 2012 2:51pm
I think you should follow your path and find what works for you, test it and refine it.
Many traders do not use stop loss and are profitable. Look Forexcube thread and its "Loss Order Management".
I do not think there is only one truth in this business!
So, no-sl vs sl, long-term vs scalping etc. is all crap for me!
IMHO
  • #43
  • Apr 1, 2012 3:31pm Apr 1, 2012 3:31pm
Quoting Nacho
thing is that risking that little, I could afford a drawback on a single pair of more than 500 pips without needing to close the trade. I have to be very unlucky for having 5 pairs going all 500 pips against me . I agree that it could happen though.
But for example, I have 2 trades still pending now for several days already. But the other trades I have closed with TP already compensate for these two.
Plus, I can still manually close those trades that look to be going beyond control.
If a pair goes 500 pips against you, don't you think you should rethink how you are entering trades?

BTW, I don't know how to find a good trade either.
  • #44
  • Apr 1, 2012 3:33pm Apr 1, 2012 3:33pm
Quoting bluesteele
OK OK you got me ....LOL

This thread has to be an April Fool's joke????

Good one !
bluesteele, maybe you're joking, but when I read this thread's first post, I thought: "Is this guy for real? No, it must be an April Fool's joke!"
Gentlemen always play by the rules. If they can't, they change the rules.
  • #45
  • Apr 1, 2012 4:09pm Apr 1, 2012 4:09pm
Quoting VBFlyin
If a pair goes 500 pips against you, don't you think you should rethink how you are entering trades?

BTW, I don't know how to find a good trade either.
I believe entering on a H4 cross of ema is a good entry rule, in fact have reached tp most of the time (not hard since my tp is only 15/20 pips) before going that far against me.
  • #46
  • Apr 1, 2012 4:10pm Apr 1, 2012 4:10pm
Quoting Rob216
I think you should follow your path and find what works for you, test it and refine it.
Many traders do not use stop loss and are profitable. Look Forexcube thread and its "Loss Order Management".
I do not think there is only one truth in this business!
So, no-sl vs sl, long-term vs scalping etc. is all crap for me!
IMHO
thanks Rob216, I will check out that thread!
  • #47
  • Apr 1, 2012 5:31pm Apr 1, 2012 5:31pm
Quoting n_aftab
have a look at the Bird watching in lion country book.

you should have a exit strategy, if the trade goes wrong, praying wont do it, but theres nothing wrong with having a large stop, but you should know roughly how much you want to risk, just dont make it 100%


you may want to have a look at multiple entries as your 1 trade breaking your current entry into several smaller trades which you enter on different levels.


N
You can make money with the strategy but you still need an exit method on losing trades at some point. I can see the usual SL crowd is out to rip you. I trade one penny per 500 and my results over the years, yes I said years, is 5-10% a month. so you could look at results of 2.5-5% a month. Even still there still is a point I take a loss. So you still need a money management systme where you know a trade aint coming back to 0. You dont need a SL but you do need an exit strategy of some kind.
  • #48
  • Apr 1, 2012 5:49pm Apr 1, 2012 5:49pm
Quoting nanningbob
I can see the usual SL crowd is out to rip you.


The reason is their belief system, it allows no room for creative thoughts outside of the box.

That pattern would not necessarily be a problem in itself, but when it is dwelling in a person who is hosting rudeness, arrogance and bitterness, then it is explosive and turns into aggressiveness against those who do something which goes against the engraved dogma of the SL cult.
  • #49
  • Edited 8:50pm Apr 1, 2012 6:12pm | Edited 8:50pm
Quoting fxtr51


The reason is their belief system, it allows no room for creative thoughts outside of the box.

That pattern would not necessarily be a problem in itself, but when it is dwelling in a person who is hosting rudeness, arrogance and bitterness, then it is explosive and turns into aggressiveness against those who do something which goes against the engraved dogma of the SL cult.
This is Nacho thread and I will let him defend himself but if you analyze their argument it goes like this. We trade this certain way, only professional traders trade this way, so any method other than our method is not professional. I can easily defeat that argument by looking at a COT chart. You can see three groups of professional traders who have to register their trades. You can see that one group is almost always contrary in their trading direction to the other two. That means, they dont trade the way some say only professional traders trade. To trade contrary to others you have to trade smaller lots, with less leverage, and with different rules than the tight SL method. To say otherwise is ludicrous. So, I am off to work. Good luck and Nachos I see you started this on April Fool's day, that maybe be design or not. If you really want to discuss your strategy you will have to ban certain individuals from your thread or you will never get to discuss the actual strategy. There are professional traders who trade one or two indicators and that is it. Using one is not a bad or unsound method but it must be combined with an exit method at some point.
  • #50
  • Apr 2, 2012 2:29am Apr 2, 2012 2:29am
Quoting Nacho
Hi all,

I want to share my strategy and get your opinions comments and views.

Even when the trade reverses on me and goes -200/-300 pips against me, the fact that I'm not using the leverage, makes it affordable

What do you think of this strategy?
lol, nice April Fool's!

You know though that there are people who actually believe in this way of 'trading' and try to sell their ideas to others!
  • #51
  • Apr 2, 2012 2:47am Apr 2, 2012 2:47am
Quoting FreeSoul-
it can just work until market is in range.....trend will blow up ur account.
If you understood the numbers it would take 100,000 pips in losses to blow his account. That is trading .01 one penny per pip. My question would be this, can you teach us how to lose 100,000 pips to make your statement come true?
  • #52
  • Apr 2, 2012 2:50am Apr 2, 2012 2:50am
if he trades with the longer term trend and uses a larger stop, i see no reason for it not to work. I would advise on taking some larger profits as-well as the smaller ones though - to help offset some of the bigger losses.

I know of a small group who trade in a similar fashion and are making money and have been doing for years. They must be doing something right, i cant say that given the swings in the markets over the years that its all luck.
  • #53
  • Apr 2, 2012 3:04am Apr 2, 2012 3:04am
Quoting Nacho
Hi all,

I want to share my strategy and get your opinions comments and views.

The strategy I'm using is very simple and has been very succesfull so far.

My rules:

1. NO leverage
I have a 1000 eur account and I'm trading only 0.01 lots right now. I will start to trade 0.02 lots as soon as I reach 2000 eur margin and so on (or you can decide to go even slower by trading 0.02 lots only when your account has 3000 eur margin etc.)

2. SMALL TP
I have a set TP of 15-20 pips on every trade, trading only pairs with low broker spread.

3. NO...
Sounds just like nanningbob's strategy. Not surprised at all to see his name at the bottom as current viewing this thread, hehe. Hello Bob! No leverage definitely is safer. I would only trade no stop with positive swap if I had tons of money to park and didn't want to have to look at it for months or years. With no stop loss you could be in a trade for a very long time waiting for your take profit to hit all the while accruing relatively small interest for the amount of margin being consumed. Otherwise I have found it is more profitable and more efficient use of time to actually trade actively. If you have an effective method you can have a higher rate of turnover. Therefore more compounding. Just my 2 cents, as they say.
  • #54
  • Apr 2, 2012 3:07am Apr 2, 2012 3:07am
Quoting nanningbob
If you understood the numbers it would take 100,000 pips in losses to blow his account. That is trading .01 one penny per pip. My question would be this, can you teach us how to lose 100,000 pips to make your statement come true?
By that logic it would then take 100,000 pips to double his account. Might as well take that money and put in a retirement account or bonds and save yourself the time. You might also save on the power it takes to run your computer.
  • #55
  • Apr 2, 2012 4:01am Apr 2, 2012 4:01am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
By that logic it would then take 100,000 pips to double his account. Might as well take that money and put in a retirement account or bonds and save yourself the time. You might also save on the power it takes to run your computer.
Hi 2+2, not really interested in debating in another guys thread, but he has the right idea if he is interested in trading safely and long term. If I understand his system and lot size he probably would do around 2-5% a month which is much better than a bank or bonds at 3% a year. However, he doesnt have a place where he will take a loss, something I would do. So that leaves it open to question. Anyway, have fun, I am going to respect another's thread and leave him teach his own system. If it has merit people will follow, if not, it will die. : )
  • #56
  • Apr 2, 2012 5:59am Apr 2, 2012 5:59am
Hi nacho ! Hi nanningbob !

It's funny to read the "hatred" posts here. I just posted sth. on another thread that has almost the same topic and I only can say: I support your views. What I realized over the years is that there are different ways to achieve your goals.

What I wanted was a month, better day by day, good performance and it'S hard to achieve and practically not possible by this method lots of 10 vouches guys pray:
go with the market, use TP 3x SL 1x.

I checked ALL kind of stuff and guess what ? Your ratio is a good as 1:1 by TP 3x and SL 1x. Why ? Cause you get hit 3 times on SL and 1 time on TP.

That's the truth. You need an edge. That's the key and this edge you can get like nanningbob (see posts before) or nacho tries. Or you try to get the trends but that's really hard and also not my trading style.

Don't give up Nacho ! There are different ways. And that's what you try works out but make much more backtesting. This is really important.

As Cloggie said: "Develop a System and seek the Drawdown 10(1year is enough I would say on short time frames) years back, double it at least and see if you can stand this. Then start to trade."

Do your homework and market will benefit.
Don't be fooled... I needed 5 years of developing lots of stuff, going on gambling and so on to find something that works.

keep up !

greets Jack
  • #57
  • Apr 2, 2012 6:02am Apr 2, 2012 6:02am
I have tried to provide support, no 2 traders are the same and will have very different trading styles.

I did mention bwilc to you.

Trade in the direction of the trend
keep an eye on the fundamentals.

Use multiple entries on different levels.

And have a rough idea of how much draw down your prepared to take before starting to scale out.

For me having a stop too close to the market resulted in premature stop out, when i started to trade longer timeframes, i found myself trading less, and earning more.

N
  • #58
  • Apr 2, 2012 6:10am Apr 2, 2012 6:10am
Quoting fxtr51
You can see a 7000 Pips upwards move on EURUSD for example (click on monthly timeframe and zoom out, then you can see it).

You say that you can close a position which goes too far into drawdown,
but that is not how real life works.
Because you always hope that price will turn around ....

I trade a different method, somebody called it lock-unlock.
I freeze a floating loss with a position in opposite direction, same lot-size.
Therefore I will never get a margin call like you and I never have
to watch the floating loss getting bigger and bigger,...

fxtr51


can you describe your lock / unlock strategy ?

how do you come out of profit / break even if you are hedged , there will always be a loss as one trade in profit, the other in loss ?
  • #59
  • Apr 2, 2012 6:27am Apr 2, 2012 6:27am
i think i know what he means.

Basically once a position goes against you, you place a trade in the opposite direction (a hedge / lock) when price comes back down and takes that trade off it then unlocks it.

I used to do a similar thing, but i found that if i was going to take a trade in the opposite direction, and i am happy with the direction of the fundamental trend, i would take the profit, rather then it come back to take the lock off.
  • #60
  • Apr 2, 2012 10:02am Apr 2, 2012 10:02am
what you said is CRAP!

i only defined what u've said is crap.

u see, i didn't define you are a loser, but u defined me.

ur so-called "lock-unlock" may works,

but not due to the smart "lock-unlock", it is due to your decision has an "edge". meaning that out of 100 times, you have more than 50 times to be right, statistically (assuming 1:1 R/R).

with an "edge", u do whatever u can, no prob.

but a noob comes here, read ur "CRAP", and believed it is due to your smart "lock-unlock" way. then this noob is focked up by the misbelief that you presented here.

for a noob, (due to a win rate lower than 50%), he might easily run into this situation: whatever he does, the market will go against him. he long, market drop, he short to hedge, market rise again, he long to follow, the market drop again....... then the noob will be collapsed......

Quoting fxtr51
charvo, the reasons why the whole population of this world is not millionaires is obvious:
1. they cannot understand the method and will never trade it
2. if everybody understood it, it would not work because there would be
no buyers or sellers on the other side of the trade.
3. Equity grows slow, now way to become a millionaire with 1k starting balance.

Your rude "Crap" on the other hand is the 100% guarantee that the strategy will work forever.

You belong to category 1 like 99.99 % of all traders and therefore
Nacho will always find the...
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