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  • #341
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:09am Mar 30, 2012 10:09am
Recovery trading is Martingale trading period.

I dont give a rats ass what Alorente says or Naaningbob.

Locking /freezing is complete and utter bullshit.

Learn proper money mgmt ,,use a method with an edge and trade appropriately.

Definition of 'Martingale System'

A money management system of investing in which the dollar values of investments continually increase after losses, or the position size increases with lowering portfolio size.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/...#ixzz1qc3htTlt


Investopedia explains 'Martingale System'

This is a very risky method of investing. The main idea behind the Martingale system is that statistically you cannot lose all the time, and therefore you should increase the amount allocated in investments--even if they are declining in value--in anticipation of a future increase.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/...#ixzz1qc3pMsGX


So Alorente or Nanningbob you can call your terd "recovery" but it is a terd.

All newbies if you have half a brain run from those threads. They will fail 100% guaranteed. You will blow your acct.

Enuf said. I'm going fishing.

Cheers,

Bluesteele


Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #342
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:23am Mar 30, 2012 10:23am
[quote=bluesteele;5528230]Recovery trading is Martingale trading period.

I dont give a rats ass what Alorente says or Naaningbob.

Locking /freezing is complete and utter bullshit.

Learn proper money mgmt ,,use a method with an edge and trade appropriately.

Definition of 'Martingale System'

A money management system of investing in which the dollar values of investments continually increase after losses, or the position size increases with lowering portfolio size.

So Alorente or Nanningbob you can call your terd "recovery" but it is a terd.All newbies if you have half a brain run from those threads. They will fail 100% guaranteed. You will blow your acct. Enuf said. I'm going fishing.Cheers,Bluesteele



thats somes it up,

im not going fishing im going to the pub

  • #343
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:37am Mar 30, 2012 10:37am
Quoting mister me
the maths are actually very simple,no stoploss method,if i open positions both buys and sells every 20 pip advances and declinesand take profits equally at +20 pips over an extended period,if i started this when price was ranging in a 100 pip zone,initially i would collect vast amount of gains my drawdown would always appear much lower.even as the market gradually rises from the range ,it will still whip up and down and collect lots of pips.much larger gains than my drawdown,
eventually 1 month 3 months it dosnt matter price will trend away from...
hm, that was not really maths now, was it? I am missing mathematical operators in your post, the easiest of which are + - / * =.
  • #344
  • Edited 11:02am Mar 30, 2012 10:47am | Edited 11:02am
Quoting mister me
the maths are actually very simple,no stoploss method,if i open positions both buys and sells every 20 pip advances and declinesand take profits equally at +20 pips over an extended period,if i started this when price was ranging in a 100 pip zone,initially i would collect vast amount of gains my drawdown would always appear much lower.even as the market gradually rises from the range ,it will still whip up and down and collect lots of pips.much larger gains than my drawdown,
eventually 1 month 3 months it dosnt matter price will trend away from...
You are ignoring one important element in your maths ..... the rules set out on Page1 of the Extreme TMA System thread. They are not trades taken at any given time randomly and without rules. Can you take a look at the Extreme TMA System and then apply this maths? You can't pluck numbers from the air and say that it applies to Alorente's system. You ignored the setups and the rules, and your entries are random, which is not what Alorente is teaching. Your arguments should include their rules of engagement.

Your very first sentence the model is already flawed ("if i open positions both buys and sells every 20 pip advances and declinesand take profits equally at +20 pips over an extended period..."). You are using a non-working model to declare that the "maths" for all these threads are not profitable. Or as you said, "skewer the maths" or "beat that maths by exits". Not sure what the last one mean. You should be using their entry/exit rules to base your maths. Just because you don't have a working system doesn't mean other systems cannot work. You just don't know how to trade.

Just because an airplane is parking on the ground doesn't mean it cannot fly. You just haven't seen it flew before. Your so-called "maths" is like saying the airplane is heavier than air, therefore it cannot fly. You don't know that, because you didn't actually read any of these threads or tested their system.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #345
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:49am Mar 30, 2012 10:49am
Quoting Custos
hm, that was not really maths now, was it? I am missing mathematical operators in your post, the easiest of which are + - / * =.
He is plucking abstract opinions about maths out of thin air. No numbers and no mathematical operators. Still not sure what he is saying, but I know he is talking about random entries. That does not apply to the many threads as they have rules. And he ignored the rules in his "theory" so the whole thing is off the point.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #346
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:02am Mar 30, 2012 11:02am
Quoting mmaker
You are ignoring one important element in your maths ..... the rules set out on Page1 of the Extreme TMA System thread. They are not trades taken at any given time randomly and without rules. Can you take a look at the Extreme TMA System and then apply this maths? You can't pluck numbers from the air and say that it applies to Alorente's system. You ignored the setups and the rules, and your entries are random, which is not what Alorente is teaching. Your arguments should include their rules of engagement.
actually the entries are not the point,my study comes from a ststem i devised that dosnt use random entries ,but the point is its always the same outcome.
also im not refering to aloronti or anybodies system im talking about methods not using stops,i have no idea about aloronti method,i already stated last but 1 post i should not have refered to any of them threads because i havnt read them.

Custos http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif

not sure what to say,but we dont require great equations on this simple test i carried out.the results showed the maths in ther most simplistic form .ill give you that ,but nothing else is required.

on a side note mmaker are you making regular gains with the system your following
  • #347
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:07am Mar 30, 2012 11:07am
Quoting mister me

not sure what to say,but we dont require great equations on this simple test i carried out.the results showed the maths in ther most simplistic form .ill give you that ,but nothing else is required.
I don't require great equations either. But if you always talk about maths, then at least give some simple formulas.

Don't know where your results show any maths, whether it is simplistic or not. I couldn't grasp the maths behind your words. Maybe you could point us to some of the maths you do to reach your conclusions?

And with maths I mean real maths with formulas, not just words as in your last post.

Cause as you may have learned in maths 101, mathematics is based on formulas, not words.
  • #348
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:08am Mar 30, 2012 11:08am
Quoting mister me
on a side note mmaker are you making regular gains with the system your following
That's a very good question actually. I wonder what answers people will give in this forum. Do they normally say "Yes"? Or do they say "No?" Alorente and sonicdeejay said many times that they make regular gains with their systems. Yet your point is they are not profitable in the long run because of your maths. So why is that question necessary in the first place? You are not going to believe anyone who claims to say "Yes".

What is your maths? I still don't get it. What is "skewer the maths" and how can exits be used to "beat the maths"? What is the maths?
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #349
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:08am Mar 30, 2012 11:08am
Quoting mmaker
You are ignoring one important element in your maths ..... the rules set out on Page1 of the Extreme TMA System thread. They are not trades taken at any given time randomly and without rules. Can you take a look at the Extreme TMA System and then apply this maths? You can't pluck numbers from the air and say that it applies to Alorente's system. You ignored the setups and the rules, and your entries are random, which is not what Alorente is teaching. Your arguments should include their rules of engagement.

Your very first sentence the model...
i have devised a trading method using 5 required elements,my method will still produce regular gains after a 1000 trades,you trade alorontis or whatever system you want ,ill post my trade calls you post yours and in 1000 trades lets compare results.
  • #350
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:11am Mar 30, 2012 11:11am
Quoting mmaker
That's a very good question actually. I wonder what answers people will give in this forum. Do they normally say "Yes"? Or do they say "No?" Alorente and sonicdeejay said many times that they make regular gains with their systems. Yet you point is they are not profitable. So why is that question necessary in the first place? You are not going to believe anyone who claims to say "Yes".
ive never said your not making profits,all iv said is that no stoploss systems cannot produce regular gains over a longterm period,i sincerly hope u are profitable
  • #351
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:11am Mar 30, 2012 11:11am
Quoting mister me
i have devised a trading method using 5 required elements,my method will still produce regular gains after a 1000 trades,you trade alorontis or whatever system you want ,ill post my trade calls you post yours and in 1000 trades lets compare results.
while a thousand trades is a good start, it is still meaningless. You could still just trade a random system. I have seen a couple of systems that can produce positive results over 100 to 1000 trades only to get back to random over the whole dataset.
  • #352
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:13am Mar 30, 2012 11:13am
Quoting mister me
actually the entries are not the point,my study comes from a ststem i devised that dosnt use random entries ,but the point is its always the same outcome.
Thank you! That's exactly my point! You are basing your "maths" on your own failed system to say that other systems don't work. When in fact it is your own system that don't work no matter how you "skewer the maths". Look at the other threads, you can learn something there instead of drowning in your own beliefs of something that never worked in the first place. You got it wrong and you can learn from the other threads how to properly design a system.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #353
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:16am Mar 30, 2012 11:16am
Quoting mister me
ive never said your not making profits,all iv said is that no stoploss systems cannot produce regular gains over a longterm period,i sincerly hope u are profitable
Visit the Extreme TMA System thread.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #354
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:35am Mar 30, 2012 11:35am
Quoting mmaker
Thank you! That's exactly my point! You are basing your "maths" on your own failed system to say that other systems don't work. When in fact it is your own system that don't work no matter how you "skewer the maths". Look at the other threads, you can learn something there instead of drowning in your own beliefs of something that never worked in the first place. You got it wrong and you can learn from the other threads how to properly design a system.
i dont need to visit a thread that dosnt use stops.

i dont need a ststem i have one,

you are very disilusioned,im giving you factual details stating no stop loss systems cannot work unless you skewer the maths,period.i didnt have a failed system ,it was a 18 month study of not using stops,thats why i wont be visiting any no stop threads.

custos,im not sure what your point is,my method of trading eliminates random,its one of the 5 elements in my system,
the maths
its a study.. from that study i learned that unless you can skewer the maths it returns to zero.on a no stop loss method .
  • #355
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:41am Mar 30, 2012 11:41am
Quoting mister me
i dont need to visit a thread that dosnt use stops.

i dont need a ststem i have one,

you are very disilusioned,im giving you factual details stating no stop loss systems cannot work unless you skewer the maths,period.i didnt have a failed system ,it was a 18 month study of not using stops,thats why i wont be visiting any no stop threads.

custos,im not sure what your point is,my method of trading eliminates random,its one of the 5 elements in my system,
the maths
its a study.. from that study i learned that unless you can skewer the maths it returns...
I also agree that a no stop loss method is probably not a good method in the first place. It disregards risk management completely.

My point is that there are a lot of systems that have lucky streaks. A thousand trades are not statistically significant. It could just be a lucky streak. Maybe over a 10.000 trades+ your system also gives out signals that produces random results.

Maybe you are lucky enough to have really found a system that works in the long-term, but just making you aware that a thousand trades might not be enough to call a system profitable.
  • #356
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:47am Mar 30, 2012 11:47am
Quoting mmaker
Visit the Extreme TMA System thread.
Quoting mmaker
You will learn more at our upcoming live seminar in Orlando.


Inserted Video
  • #357
  • Mar 30, 2012 11:49am Mar 30, 2012 11:49am
Quoting Custos
I also agree that a no stop loss method is probably not a good method in the first place. It disregards risk management completely.

My point is that there are a lot of systems that have lucky streaks. A thousand trades are not statistically significant. It could just be a lucky streak. Maybe over a 10.000 trades+ your system also gives out signals that produces random results.

Maybe you are lucky enough to have really found a system that works in the long-term, but just making you aware that a thousand trades might not be enough to call a system...
wont argue with that,

if and when the market fundamentals change in a conciderable way then that will be my systems test and may well need adjustment,although were constantly trying to improve as we gain more knowledge.im really not spouting about a holy grail just some hard work im open minded enough to improve from others
  • #358
  • Mar 30, 2012 3:04pm Mar 30, 2012 3:04pm
Quoting mister me

so for me to gain an edge i had to first understand what my competors in this games edge over me was,then systematically chip away at it by biulding a trading ststem with elements that when converged together if nothing else even out the odds and slightly turned the balance in my favour.
I'll probably get criticised for saying this but I read and hear a lot about having an edge, statistics, beating the market etc etc etc ad infinitum, but it all seems unnecessarily convoluted to me. Maybe I'm oversimplifying trading but all I'm doing is buying something at one price, selling it back at a higher price, and cutting my losses if I made a bad buy and the value of what I brought declines. I'm not in direct conflict or competition with anyone, I'm just trucking along in my own innocuous style! I dunno, sounds simple enough to me.

Things are different in the interbank market but I think most of us trade with marketmakers who fill orders instantly most of the time, offer tight spreads, and stream smoothed quotes which closely reflect the underlying market, we're pretty much golden when you think about it!
  • #359
  • Mar 30, 2012 4:53pm Mar 30, 2012 4:53pm
I think what is meant, or at least should be.. by saying you have an edge is that you have the data on your system that proves it...

Say your win loss is 55%
your profit targets are 1/1 risk to reward,
you risk 2% of your account balance on every trade...

statistically it is impossible to blow up your account...
(assuming you continue to have the same results of course)

thats an edge..

and if you haven't got the data to prove it, then you ain't got anything...

So I do have an edge.... and you can too for $400 p.m me for details (that was a joke!!!)
tradewith60
  • #360
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:14pm Mar 30, 2012 10:14pm
Edge…………an edge is when, overall and on an ongoing basis, you profit more than you lose.

Re Extreme TMA………haven’t been following along keenly, but I understood they are all short EUR 3150ish.....
without stops (nervous)
………but aren’t we heading back to retest 3480ish??? (worried)
.
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