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The life of a trading system on Forex Factory

  • #321
  • Mar 28, 2012 3:15pm Mar 28, 2012 3:15pm
Quoting Pipsgeek
Wow, I am shocked. Alorente's trading system is bogus?!

My world has collapsed. Now, I wasn't really using his system or even thinking about testing it. I did stumble into his thread and when I saw his avatar I was psyched. He looked like the cool rich uncle I never had, a man whose trading skills are only surpassed by his impeccable sense of style. After reading his posts I didn't understand the why or how behind the indicator. I figured that at this point I was too stupid to understand and would return after increasing my trading knowledge to...
Have you taken a look at Sonic R System? This guy traderathome seems willing to post his trades regularly and also update his calls with pictures. The thread has been around since Oct 2008 and still kicking. Compared to Alorente, this Sonic R System thread appears to survive the OP's end stage descriptions.
Quoting LazyPawn
11. It works for me! So we are left with the OP and his early followers claiming that the system works beautifully, they all make thousands of pips each week. We have a few others who claim that it’s losing big time and others get so-so results. And the vast majority still keeps trying to find that extra indicator that will make the system perfect.
12. There’s a new kid in town! A few months later most people left the building. Even the OP most of the times. Nobody knows why. Have they become so incredibly rich that posting on FF is no longer interesting? Or maybe the system is not so good after all? But hey … who cares? Did you see that new system? That one is really great!
  • #322
  • Mar 28, 2012 7:32pm Mar 28, 2012 7:32pm
The reason that systems come and go is because;

1. It was ridiculous to begin with.
2. Markets change and the system/method is no longer valid.

3. Most importantly, traders change methods more often than markets change direction. Whatever it is, find a method that suits you and try to perfect it rather than changing. This doesn't happen in a minute but........
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
  • #323
  • Mar 30, 2012 2:21am Mar 30, 2012 2:21am
Quoting Noosaville
Hi Al, Great thread you have started here, thankyou for sharing it with us. Congratulations, you must now hold the record for the fastest growing FF Thread, 7,703 posts in 37 days (208 per day) After your introduction you showed the first template, but then it was modified, I haven't been able to read all the threads, so can you tell me which post number has the current template, Thanks, Noosaville
Didn't realize that but Alorente's thread is the fastest growing!
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #324
  • Mar 30, 2012 5:50am Mar 30, 2012 5:50am
Quoting mmaker
Didn't realize that but Alorente's thread is the fastest growing!
That's great... for Alorente.

But for his readers... not so great. They will only find that none of it works for them.
Luck occurs when preparation meets with opportunity.
  • #325
  • Mar 30, 2012 5:57am Mar 30, 2012 5:57am
Quoting AlienFrog
That's great... for Alorente.

But for his readers... not so great. They will only find that none of it works for them.
Hey AlienFrog!
You were a follower of the Extreme TMA system for a while, did it not work out for you?

Be great if you could share your views
Tracking the Specialists.
  • #326
  • Mar 30, 2012 6:56am Mar 30, 2012 6:56am
As i have mentioned in my previous posts to have a longterm consistanly profitable ststem or method i need 1 element of descresion within it.

we are trying to bring the odds closer to a even playing field,because the brokers have a positive edge against us.element 1 slightly does this but by no means is this enough by itself.

a second element we can use,is time,we do not need to make trades,they do,
price can at times be favourable to us for the simple reason that we havnt needed to buy or sell at a given price level,there are times when orders need to be filled for a no of reasons by end of x time,regardless of price,if we can determine these times ,they are advantacious ,

over 1000 trades the brokers edge over us retail traders is huge,even though theres many good retail traders our system must firstly close the brokers edge,that inits self will lead to creating our edge.
  • #327
  • Mar 30, 2012 7:37am Mar 30, 2012 7:37am
Quoting AlienFrog

That's great... for Alorente.

But for his readers... not so great. They will only find that none of it works for them.

Last I saw they were chasing their tails expending time, energy, and resources by marrying a trade/view just to be 'right'! A pointless futile waste of time if you ask me but I guess if someone can't trade then what else can they do?

With Alorente and Nanningbob as the guides I'd advise people take their own compass!!
  • #328
  • Mar 30, 2012 7:43am Mar 30, 2012 7:43am
Quoting mister me

over 1000 trades the brokers edge over us retail traders is huge
You make brokers sound like the enemy! They're just facilitating our trades is all, which we can expect to have to pay for, without them we're pretty much screwed!

I consider my broker, and the market, as offering an opportunity rather than being an enemy to beat!
  • #329
  • Mar 30, 2012 7:54am Mar 30, 2012 7:54am
hi pipmut

The problem is with these threads you mention ,there followers believe theres an edge in these guys systems,but unfortunatly theres not.they have not defined what the edge is and cant because it dosnt exist.

i also havnt found this elusive ;EDGE; although im sure some have .

so for me to gain an edge i had to first understand what my competors in this games edge over me was,then systematically chip away at it by biulding a trading ststem with elements that when converged together if nothing else even out the odds and slightly turned the balance in my favour.

its not as dificult as we make it,look at there strenghts and most importently look at there disadvantages then it becomes quite simple,

we as retail traders also have some advantages in our favour.

but blindly throwing some indis and no stops cannot in the longterm work
  • #330
  • Mar 30, 2012 7:56am Mar 30, 2012 7:56am
Quoting pipmutt
You make brokers sound like the enemy! They're just facilitating our trades is all, which we can expect to have to pay for, without them we're pretty much screwed!

I consider my broker, and the market, as offering an opportunity rather than being an enemy to beat!
yes indeed,when refering to them im refering to the overall market
  • #331
  • Mar 30, 2012 8:47am Mar 30, 2012 8:47am
Quoting mister me
The problem is with these threads you mention ,there followers believe theres an edge in these guys systems,but unfortunatly theres not.they have not defined what the edge is and cant because it dosnt exist.
i also havnt found this elusive ;EDGE; although im sure some have .
so for me to gain an edge i had to first understand what my competors in this games edge over me was,then systematically chip away at it by biulding a trading ststem with elements that when converged together if nothing else even out the odds and slightly turned the balance...
I remember you mentioned that you actually have not read any of those threads so how did you know that they did not have the EDGE? Just because you have not found it doesn't mean others did not. That's why they started threads and collaborate discussions and developments with all participants. If you haven't studied them you cannot say they don't have the edge. You just didn't know.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #332
  • Edited 9:10am Mar 30, 2012 8:56am | Edited 9:10am
Quoting mmaker
Just realized the Extreme TMA System is ranked 12th and still a long way from touching the most popular Sonic R System (another one that does not use stop loss, what they called "mental stop").
Interesting to see that most popular threads get more popular ...... and Alorente's thread is now ranked 10th. Good going!

Quoting traderathome
EU:
Stopped out for 45 pips loss EP= 1.3331 to SL= 1.3376.
Quoting traderathome
AU:
Stopped out for 44 pips loss from EP= 1.0507 to SL= 1.0551.
Haha, he is finally declaring his stop losses after so many people questioned why he didn't adhere to his "mental stop", rode drawdowns over -150pips and still report a winner, and of course made hundreds of pips each week. I guess he read our thread here, lol. By the way sonicdeejay is known as the "Master" at his thread and traderathome(or TAH) is known as "Professor TAH". Followers praise them daily like a cult.
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No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #333
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:08am Mar 30, 2012 9:08am
Quoting mmaker
Interesting to see that most popular threads get more popular ...... and Alorente's thread is now ranked 10th. Good going!
So! What's your point? Just because a thread is popular does NOT validate that the system is good. To me it just shows there are many wannabes out there who know absolutely nothing about trading. Any system that uses "recovery" is a failed system. And why do you keep defending it? Are you alorente? Or are you just one of his minions who will get a cut of the "profit" when he goes off site?
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #334
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:21am Mar 30, 2012 9:21am
Quoting mmaker
I remember you mentioned that you actually have not read any of those threads so how did you know that they did not have the EDGE? Just because you have not found it doesn't mean others did not. That's why they started threads and collaborate discussions and developments with all participants. If you haven't studied them you cannot say they don't have the edge. You just didn't know.
Just because you have not found it doesn't mean others did not. so for me to gain an edge i had to first understand what my competors in this games edge over me was,then systematically chip away at it by biulding a trading ststem with elements that when converged together if nothing else even out the odds and slightly turned the balance in my favour.
i looked at the problem from a slightly diferent prospective.i gained an edge by reducing the odds to become favourable to me.

That's why they started threads and collaborate discussions and developments with all participants. If you haven't studied them you cannot say they don't have the edge. You just didn't know.
actually i dont disagree with the idea of collective thought through these threads,i think theres some great stuff out there.
regards the systems your refering to,i do not believe that over a large enough sample size any system based on a no stop loss key element for longterm profit will work,unless you can tell me how you skewer the maths,if you can tell me that i agree with you.and as ive said many times it can be done ,i myself spent 18 months trying to do so,
again this only applyies to no stop loss methods.

your correct about one thing i havnt read those threads so shouldnt remark on them,maybe some are indeed closing out certain trades at a certain loss level which initself could be positve .but the exits on a no stop loss method is the only way you can beat the maths.
and if you cant determine or understand it then its luck

regards
  • #335
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:30am Mar 30, 2012 9:30am
In my opinion all the thread starters should link their trading system/strategy to the Trade Explorer. They should open a demo account and prove their followers that they are profitable with that strategy (there are a few threads whose starter goes this way). If they are not able to profit from their strategy how can they expect the followers to profit?

And be careful, there are a lot of threads in this site that the starter's only goal is to sell their system to the customers, coach them and make money this way. Because they are never consistently profitable with trading!
  • #336
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:34am Mar 30, 2012 9:34am
Quoting Lanes110
And be careful, there are a lot of threads in this site that the starter's only goal is to sell their system to the customers, coach them and make money this way. Because they are never consistently profitable with trading!
Sonic R System thread has been around since 2008 and still not gone commercial. Maybe this one is genuinely trying to help people?
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #337
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:38am Mar 30, 2012 9:38am
Quoting mister me
..... unless you can tell me how you skewer the maths,if you can tell me that i agree with you ...... maybe some are indeed closing out certain trades at a certain loss level which initself could be positve .but the exits on a no stop loss method is the only way you can beat the maths.
and if you cant determine or understand it then its luck
What exactly is the "maths"? Can you show the equation or some representation? If we don't know what it is then what does it mean by "skewer the maths"? When you say "beat the maths", what is the maths in the first place?
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #338
  • Mar 30, 2012 9:46am Mar 30, 2012 9:46am
Quoting spzd
So! What's your point? Just because a thread is popular does NOT validate that the system is good. To me it just shows there are many wannabes out there who know absolutely nothing about trading. Any system that uses "recovery" is a failed system. And why do you keep defending it? Are you alorente? Or are you just one of his minions who will get a cut of the "profit" when he goes off site?
exactly,i think the problem for us retail traders is weve picked up on recovery techniques from media sources,but the diference between more informed traders the information available to them when there caught on the wrong side enables them to average out or close out,but for us retail it complete luck as to wether price comes back in our favour thats why we cant implement it,
  • #339
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:01am Mar 30, 2012 10:01am
Quoting mmaker
What exactly is the "maths"? Can you show the equation or some representation? If we don't know what it is then what does it mean by "skewer the maths"? When you say "beat the maths", what is the maths in the first place?
the maths are actually very simple,no stoploss method,if i open positions both buys and sells every 20 pip advances and declinesand take profits equally at +20 pips over an extended period,if i started this when price was ranging in a 100 pip zone,initially i would collect vast amount of gains my drawdown would always appear much lower.even as the market gradually rises from the range ,it will still whip up and down and collect lots of pips.much larger gains than my drawdown,
eventually 1 month 3 months it dosnt matter price will trend away from your lowest open positions and also still producing signals to sell,the huge gains after a trending period will equal your new drawdown _ all the spreads from hundreds of trades you will be margin called or you will need to add funds under the premise that it worked for so long it must be a blip.

but the crazy thing about the maths however you manipalate entries it always comes back to the same no,i call it zero _ the spread.

its always equal to the gains,thats why im saying if you can maiplate the maths you will be rich
  • #340
  • Mar 30, 2012 10:09am Mar 30, 2012 10:09am
Could be really willing to help people without looking for benefit. I don't want to accuse all the thread starters, since I also see that there are ones that the thread starter learned a lot from forexfactory and feels that in return they should help other people. But still there is nothing wrong to start a demo account and show that they can really profit consistently, real-time using their strategy.

Quoting mmaker
Sonic R System thread has been around since 2008 and still not gone commercial. Maybe this one is genuinely trying to help people?
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