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The life of a trading system on Forex Factory

  • #141
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:09pm Mar 20, 2012 12:09pm
Quoting realjumper
Perhaps you can copy and paste exactly where in post ANY of these claims were made in the original post. I suggest you focus on trading....it might offset some of your paranoia
I hope you got your answers now. If you have been following the TMA thread and saw how the debacle started you wouldn't need to see "ANY of these claims" because it originated from the heated exchange there. Thanks to Fudomyo for locating the posts.
Quoting Fudomyo
I had a few minutes to spare so did a quick search on the thread for you about the 1000 pips a week.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5427771
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5434965
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5432173
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...rs#post5437155
The forums are an interesting study in human behavior and are a lesson why so many people...
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #142
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:26pm Mar 20, 2012 12:26pm
Quoting Fudomyo
The forums are an interesting study in human behavior and are a lesson why so many people lose. If people can't even do the most basic calculation to know when someone is claiming something impossible, then their personal R:R must be up shit's creek.
I can remember a time when I used to believe people made 200 pips a day or 2000 pips a month etc. The really strange thing was it never really crossed my mind to do the calculation, nor did I realise just how insanely ridiculous the returns that where being claimed actually where. Worse still this was occurring at a time when I actually believed that my expectations where "realistic"

I'm fairly numerate, reasonably well educated, good at solving problems etc, but I still completely failed to understand how insane those kinds of claims actually are

What's even more amazing, is that not one single person on any of the forums pointed out just how ridiculous those claims where, and that included moderators.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend that simply reading a few forums for a few months completely destroyed any ability to think rationally, and I stayed in that particular state for well over 2 years until I stopped participating on forums.


No doubt, someone will be along shortly claiming they make 75% a month
  • #143
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:33pm Mar 20, 2012 12:33pm
Quoting Razzle
No doubt, someone will be along shortly claiming they make 75% a month
That's not funny, someone DID claim he makes 75% a month, not always, but usually so.
Quoting Alorente
I also need to focus a bit more on a couple of big accounts that I manage for friends. I usually make them 75% per month and the past 2 weeks it is lower because I simply have no time left.
No longer trading forex. Looking for full time job.
  • #144
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:38pm Mar 20, 2012 12:38pm
Quoting Razzle
What's even more amazing, is that not one single person on any of the forums pointed out just how ridiculous those claims where, and that included moderators.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend that simply reading a few forums for a few months completely destroyed any ability to think rationally, and I stayed in that particular state for well over 2 years until I stopped participating on forums.


No doubt, someone will be along shortly claiming they make 75% a month
Agree.

I have been at this about 1.5 years and I'm just emerging from that state.

I think no one mentions this because they are embarrassed to admit it. Personally, I don't care whether I admit it or not, especially in an Internet forum where we don't even use our real names!

Long before I started in FX, I learned that failures are required steps on the road to success. For me, this has been part of my FX learning process.

Now, I have to get back to making my 1000 pips for the day. Maybe I'll start a thread about how I do it...
Luck occurs when preparation meets with opportunity.
  • #145
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:46pm Mar 20, 2012 12:46pm
it all depends on how one spins their accounting. you don't need a move of 100 pips to gain 100 pips if you put on more than 1 position over a move.

people claim all sorts of shit. some of it is not as unrealistic as it might first sound, but there's usually something unmentioned that makes the picture far less rosy and far more rosie o'donnell.

creative accounting is fun (tm).
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #146
  • Mar 20, 2012 12:57pm Mar 20, 2012 12:57pm
Since we're talking about really bad math and accounting, one of the funniest ways to count pips (seen it on several threads) goes something like this:

I buy with a SL of 100 pips. If the market moves up, I close 1/3 of the position when I am 30 pips up, another 1/3 when I am at +50 and let the final third run, usually getting at least 70 pips on it. So I risk 100 pips only but I usually get 30+50+70=150 when I win!
  • #147
  • Mar 20, 2012 1:01pm Mar 20, 2012 1:01pm
Quoting LazyPawn
Since we're talking about really bad math and accounting, one of the funniest ways to count pips (seen it on several threads) goes something like this:

I buy with a SL of 100 pips. If the market moves up, I close 1/3 of the position when I am 30 pips up, another 1/3 when I am at +50 and let the final third run, usually getting at least 70 pips on it. So I risk 100 pips only but I usually get 30+50+70=150 when I win!
and don't forget everyone's favorite.... nedging to 'save spread'.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #148
  • Mar 20, 2012 1:09pm Mar 20, 2012 1:09pm
All that Pip counting is useless and misleading in my view.

I can make 50 % profit in 1 trade which hits TP at 10 Pips distance
and I can make 0.01 % profit in a trade which hits TP at 100 Pips distance.

All this + 150 Pips today
and - 20 Pips yesterday
is not telling the real story.

Usefull info would be:
Risk in percent per trade
max Drawdown
risk/reward ratio
win/lose ratio

But somehow almost nobody provides that info, it is very rare.
They all boast with +40 Pips, +200 Pips .... ( and some even "forget" their margin calls )
  • #149
  • Mar 20, 2012 1:17pm Mar 20, 2012 1:17pm
Quoting fxtr51
All that Pip counting is useless and misleading in my view.

I can make 50 % profit in 1 trade which hits TP at 10 Pips distance
and I can make 0.01 % profit in a trade which hits TP at 100 Pips distance.

All this + 150 Pips today
and - 20 Pips yesterday
is not telling the real story.

Usefull info would be:
Risk in percent per trade
max Drawdown
risk/reward ratio
win/lose ratio

But somehow almost nobody provides that info, it is very rare.
They all boast with +40 Pips, +200 Pips .... ( and some even "forget" their margin calls ...
the point is usually, or should be, that they aren't screwing with their lot size and so reporting +this +that should (tentative should) represent a trader carving both positive pips and positive money out of the market, while keeping the money aspect on the down-low for privacy.

i don't want to hear about muppets like turveyd reporting they are up 50% this year on their $20 account. i also don't want to hear about someone gaining n pips when this is just them fudging it because they decided to up their lotsize and so report pips gained as a larger amount than actually happened. pyramiding into a move and earning more pips than available is one thing, but doubling 1 position size and reporting double pips is a total wank and misrepresentation.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #150
  • Mar 20, 2012 3:17pm Mar 20, 2012 3:17pm
LAzyPawn is right on track with his observations....

The "Extreme" loyalists are on my heels ..LOL..

Alorente like expected banned me from the thread for asking him about his 5% a day is easy claim and his 75% monthly returns.

It's like a turnip truck tipped over and they all came pouring out into FF.

Entertainment value: HUGE !

Now I see he is mentioning a private forum soon....

Stay tuned.......................

Blue
Markets are Mirrors,,Mastery of craft is mastery of self
  • #151
  • Mar 20, 2012 4:48pm Mar 20, 2012 4:48pm
Quoting mmaker
I hope you got your answers now. If you have been following the TMA thread and saw how the debacle started you wouldn't need to see "ANY of these claims" because it originated from the heated exchange there. Thanks to Fudomyo for locating the posts.
NO. You said:

Quoting mmaker
you would understand why this thread was opened especially to ridicule Alorente. The various "references" (e.g. 1000pips per week, 70% for friends, repainting indicators, changing rules) made by the OP was directed at the Extreme TMA System thread
The original post ot THIS thread does not make ANY of the claims you assert. Copy and paste them from post 1 and prove me wrong.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #152
  • Mar 20, 2012 4:49pm Mar 20, 2012 4:49pm
Quoting Fudomyo
I had a few minutes to spare so did a quick search on the thread for you about the 1000 pips a week.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...90#post5495290
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #153
  • Mar 20, 2012 5:55pm Mar 20, 2012 5:55pm
pips, percentages, system claims etc, blah, blah, blah!!!
...............show me the money!!
.
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  • #154
  • Mar 21, 2012 12:34am Mar 21, 2012 12:34am
Quoting nubcake
bit of a stretch there. rain vindicates that water is wet. understanding market mechanics 101 explains s/r. ..........
Nubsy,

Good post.

A couple of years ago I PM'd Mike (mbqb11) asking him why he still persevered with the J16 methodology after being coached by Darkstar. He said that the two approaches complemented each other well (although he wasn't prepared to explain why, due to his confidentiality pledge to Darkstar). Anyway, read into that whatever you will.

You think I “laud” Jim? I don't set out to pimp people, or idolize them for the sake of it. There are gaps in everybody's knowledge: mine, Jim's, even Darkstar's. Hence I try to gather info from as many different sources as possible, and weigh up its usefulness myself, as best as I’m able. However, early in my FX journey I was obsessed with finding the holy grail of indicator-based systems, and J16 just happened to be the thread that showed me another way (which no doubt seems childishly obvious to both of us now), for which I'm grateful.

My judgement of Jim (and anybody else) is, for better or worse, based largely on what I read. I don't see too many of Jim's students accusing him of scamming them; in fact, quite the opposite. Hence I assume that they're happy with their own trading results, and believe that they're receiving value for their subscription money. Isn’t that what fair play in business is all about: value for money? That being so, I don't see why anybody should have a problem with Jim's earning money from providing mentorship. Whether he makes $100 or $1 million each month is merely a reflection of his client volume, just as it is with any other business. If he wasn't delivering something of significant value, I'm sure his membership numbers would have died off long before now.

There are plenty of businesses where the originator sets up the enterprise, and then takes a lesser role as things progress. I don't see anything immoral in that, either. But I guess it depends how you weigh up value between ideas, venture risk, and hard graft.

Anyway, I didn’t intend to single out J16 for special mention; I was merely using him as one possible example of a well-known thread that hadn’t taken the path that LazyPawn was describing. There are 4 or 5 other mentors whom I believe are at least as good.

Sure, much of the material that you can learn from a (good) forex mentor, is available elsewhere for free. Bottom line is it all depends on how you weigh up time saved vs money spent. If I knew 5 years ago what I know now, it would have shaved a large part of that 5 years off my learning curve. Moreover, trading is a lot about confidence, and most especially knowing whether or not you're still on the right track following a sequence of losses; a mentor with several years' experience can help with that.

IMO forex represents the pinnacle of capitalism and entrepreneurship. From the material in your posts, I assume that you've acquired a lot of knowledge. There's nothing to stop you starting up your own forex business - education, signals, whatever. If you think J16's methodology is too primitive or simplistic, then there's a business opportunity for you: to devise and market something that's more cutting-edge. I, for one, would wish you every success.


BTW, I think I understand your frustration with forums. Every time I see something like a "Need help with this martingale EA" thread appear, my fingers itch to write an "it won't work, you crazy fool!" type of post, but I’ve come to realize that people will believe whatever they want to, and sometimes they learn better the hard way, from their own mistakes. And anyway, there's no quarter given in a zero sum game, and everybody who loses money needlessly is contributing a little more liquidity for the rest of us.

FWIW,
David
  • #155
  • Mar 21, 2012 12:38am Mar 21, 2012 12:38am
Quoting bluesteele

The "Extreme" loyalists are on my heels ..LOL..
Of course they are, your reality is a threat to their dream!


Quoting bluesteele

Alorente like expected banned me from the thread

Now I see he is mentioning a private forum soon....
Of course he did, your're a threat to the snake oil he's eventually going to be peddling!

Like moths to a flame, it's amazing how many gullible people those types of threads attract......
  • #156
  • Mar 21, 2012 12:47am Mar 21, 2012 12:47am
Quoting pipmutt
Of course they are, your reality is a threat to their dream!




Of course he did, your're a threat to the snake oil he's eventually going to be peddling!

Like moths to a flame, it's amazing how many gullible people those types of threads attract......

I absolutely guarantee he is setting up for the kill. Has all the telltale markings. He's doing a textbook job. Hats off to him as he knows all the right buttons to push. He has obviously done it before.

He will get nailed tho I can guarantee it as certain as the sun will rise .

Reality sucks when a guy is dreaming of his riches to come with the new system and fricking outrageous returns.

WOOF !
Bluesteele
Markets are Mirrors,,Mastery of craft is mastery of self
  • #157
  • Mar 21, 2012 12:55am Mar 21, 2012 12:55am
Quoting hanover

If he wasn't delivering something of significant value, I'm sure his membership numbers would have died off long before now.
Hi David, hope you're well!

One of my favorite clips from The American President.....

Inserted Video
  • #158
  • Mar 21, 2012 1:14am Mar 21, 2012 1:14am
Quoting bluesteele

He's doing a textbook job. Hats off to him as he knows all the right buttons to push.
There's got to be a school that teaches this stuff or something, some of those guys are making a killing using the same MO over and over!

My take on it is the majority are going to lose their money anyway, it's not going to make a lot of difference to them who they donate it to lol

75% a month, pah that's chicken feed, I make more than that before breakfast......just send $99.99 and I'll teach you how!
  • #159
  • Mar 21, 2012 1:28am Mar 21, 2012 1:28am
Quoting pipmutt
There's got to be a school that teaches this stuff or something, some of those guys are making a killing using the same MO over and over!

My take on it is the majority are going to lose their money anyway, it's not going to make a lot of difference to them who they donate it to lol

75% a month, pah that's chicken feed, I make more than that before breakfast......just send $99.99 and I'll teach you how!

No shit eh....100% a day is where its at! Dont even talk to me if you cant pull off those numbers....bunch of underachievers ..LOL

5 % daily year in year out.....might as well just get a job flippin burgers for that kind of chump change.

Bluesteele dont earn know chump change baby. BIG AZZ DOLLARS !
Markets are Mirrors,,Mastery of craft is mastery of self
  • #160
  • Mar 21, 2012 1:36am Mar 21, 2012 1:36am
Quoting pipmutt
There's got to be a school that teaches this stuff or something, some of those guys are making a killing using the same MO over and over!

!
There is... it's called copy writing. the best of them get paid a funk load.

Goes like this:

1) Hit the emotional button... Usually money and it's relation to life

2) Paint a picture... The dream

3) Sell the dream... The product

4) Create a sense of urgency... Gives people no time to think.

Well from memory that's how it goes. It's not an easy skill to learn but the best are paid thousands for just 1 small add. I've been victim of many myself.

They say marketing is evil (psychological tactics) but marketers will tell you that they are simply making people realize things that they want.

At the end of the day it's your choice what you do with your time and money. I would never have stumbled across FOREX had it not been for one of these snake oil salesmen peddling his sh*t. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing. I think it's just a thing.
Time hides Nothing
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