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Pitbull Trader with Position Building

Quoting Edd Ganuelas
Courtnyewild,

Yep. For example right now I am on dd on the xxxjpy pairs. I am anticipating it will turn back added several positions thinking to ride when the trend will reverse, but it just keep climbing up.

Edd
Edd
I would 100% never do that. You might need to re read, sorry. If a pair is in large DD I would not add to it hoping it will turn.
I would apply all the other methods but not that. Opposite H , add to momentum pairs and leave DD pair to cycle (if you have risk level).

Where did you get that idea from as a matter of interest?
Quoting courtneywild
Edd
I would 100% never do that. You might need to re read, sorry. If a pair is in large DD I would not add to it hoping it will turn.
I would apply all the other methods but not that. Opposite H , add to momentum pairs and leave DD pair to cycle (if you have risk level).

Where did you get that idea from as a matter of interest?
Courtneywild,

I am applying contrarian trades, sometimes it works, but you need to have the reversal momentum and timing as well and ride on and close as profit appear. Some discribed this as a rubber band effect. Like when I am in 150/250 pips dd, market paused/ranging and then move to the opposite direction, then I time in my trades. But this is another technique (remember the mantra what goes up goes down and what goes down goes up ) which you guys as pitbull traders do not subscribed.

So basically, what you are doing with regards to dd is to hedge to freeze it and wait to cyle back (without riding the trip) to where it came from.

Thank you for your reply.


Edd
Quoting Edd Ganuelas
Courtneywild,

I am applying contrarian trades, sometimes it works, but you need to have the reversal momentum and timing as well and ride on and close as profit appear. Some discribed this as a rubber band effect. Like when I am in 150/250 pips dd, market paused/ranging and then move to the opposite direction, then I time in my trades. But this is another technique (remember the mantra what goes up goes down and what goes down goes up ) which you guys as pitbull traders do not subscribed.

So basically, what you are doing with regards to dd...

No no...we, at least I hedge to freeze the loss..this is just controlling the DD.... nothing more...

Then you can then add more trade in the +ve direction or Trade the fastest moving pair fromthe basket...

Because whatif the fastest moving pair is the one in DD....got it..

and yes what goes up must come down....

So trade lotsize that wont blow the account..lot size tha can withstand...the moveof X pips...in DD...got it...

notice if were in DD....over the past couple weeks....see what happens...if you were controlling the DD...using patience..taking small profit...and using ratios....of sell to buys....

trading is controlling DD.....eveyone make mistakes....but
the cycles....all you to recover... with patience..

Brian also teaches....position averaging..but its based on identifying the TREND in the TF you are trading...and buying at specific locations...

even if you are in DD....so when the Trend returns...you are profiting from the start.....this is using DD...and limit orders..


cheers..
Quoting chips
No no...we, at least I hedge to freeze the loss..this is just controlling the DD.... nothing more...

Then you can then add more trade in the +ve direction or Trade the fastest moving pair fromthe basket...

Because whatif the fastest moving pair is the one in DD....got it..

and yes what goes up must come down....

So trade lotsize that wont blow the account..lot size tha can withstand...the moveof X pips...in DD...got it...

notice if were in DD....over the past couple weeks....see what happens...if you were controlling the DD...using patience..taking...
Chips,

Thank you for your reply. This is basically where I am tryig to understand and hard to adopt. I know the need to hedge to freeze my dd. There were times that I have to place a hedge as fast as i can (at least 15 pips dd) when I noticed that my trades (or the opposite groups) are on dd, but most often I ignore it until it reached about 150-250 pips in -ve, instead of hedging at this point, sometimes when it paused into range and then as if the market is going back, tempted to placed add-on trades in the direction of the original position. Sometimes it works when there is a momentum. This is where I failed burried into dd specially when the lot is little bit high and impatient.

I will keep demoing along those lines you posted. To place a hedge on pairs from the other groups that are -vely bearish to freeze the dd. And work out to balance dd/profit from those most profitable pairs with special attention on pairs that are showing momentum.

Edd
Quoting Edd Ganuelas
Courtneywild,

Thank you. Yes, it takes practice. One scenario that I am not comportable is how to get out of dd when it reached 250-300 pips or more on a single pair. Sometimes I am anticipating that it will revert/turn back to where it came from. So instead of hedging, I end up adding trades in the direction of the first trade to recover back the losses. Sometimes it works (sometimes not), chopping every profit as they appear. How do you approach this kind of trades?

Edd

Hey Edd, I see what you are saying....of course this isn't "going with the trend" but I've noticed over the last 2 months I've been trading this that the cycles run from 2-4 days at a time. If it consistently does that then you could make the additional trades based on how long you have been in the current cycle. I don't want to confuse the initial method with this, but I was wondering if anyone that has been trading this for a long time has experienced the cycles running longer the 2-4 days?
Quoting tb62
Hey Edd, I see what you are saying....of course this isn't "going with the trend" but I've noticed over the last 2 months I've been trading this that the cycles run from 2-4 days at a time. If it consistently does that then you could make the additional trades based on how long you have been in the current cycle. I don't want to confuse the initial method with this, but I was wondering if anyone that has been trading this for a long time has experienced the cycles running longer the 2-4 days?
yes 100% I find it around 2 days
Thanks Courtney. Thanks for all your contributions to this thread too (and chips). I've been soaking this up, rereading the other threads and watching the videos as much as possible the last 2 months. This method has been a game changer for me. Are you trading this live yet Courtney?
Quoting tb62
Thanks Courtney. Thanks for all your contributions to this thread too (and chips). I've been soaking this up, rereading the other threads and watching the videos as much as possible the last 2 months. This method has been a game changer for me. Are you trading this live yet Courtney?
Yes on micro lots... really still testing.

Interestingly I now also use the DD control on my 4 hour system.
Apart from everything else on this thread I got this from Chips ... DON'T GIVE money to your broker.
Cheers.
I hope ppl are controlling DD...and trading the forex and writing off bad goods as the market progresses...

and taking profits when they are due...Dont rush and more postions than what is needed....

Buy if its up and sell on the down day...

I trading live and the more you trade you realize that timing is key for entering the market..most times the market sits there because it wants you to trade and trade....be patient.

Cheers.
Quoting chips
I hope ppl are controlling DD...and trading the forex and writing off bad goods as the market progresses...

and taking profits when they are due...Dont rush and more postions than what is needed....

Buy if its up and sell on the down day...

I trading live and the more you trade you realize that timing is key for entering the market..most times the market sits there because it wants you to trade and trade....be patient.

Cheers.

 Hi Chips

 Good to see a post...

 Interestingly I have been running a new demo with Vantage using Pitbull
 It’s a new 30 day demo and due to expire on Monday.
So far in the 28 days my 5000 demo account stands at £7716
+54.32%.

Key points for me are
 Keep lot size small 0.01 to 0.10 up to .50 is more than enough
Stop loss – I have not used a stop loss the whole time.
 Only trade the bottom 2

 Also I am combining some pitbull elements and philosophy with my higher time frame system and that is proving to work nicely.

 More than anything this system has taught me a different way to THINK about trading and for that I cant thank you enough. Because methods and systems change and evolve with the market but getting your mind right is the key.

 I have said it all before but thank you again for bringing this method back to life.
 I truly have turned my trading around to a completely new dimension and it WORKS

 Thank you Brian and Thank you Chips.

Courtney
  • Post #1,071
  • Quote
  • Edited Apr 1, 2012 12:58am Mar 31, 2012 3:43am | Edited Apr 1, 2012 12:58am
hello guys,

hope one of the experienced people can help me with this.

I live in NZ and in winter time I can watch the market till 10.30am London time, but in summer only till 8.30am.

by this time the trend direction might not be clear enough to place a trade.

I can only place orders until those times and not close any orders till 3.30/5.30pm London time.

would it still be worthwhile to trade this system?

thank you
why do we watch those pairs mentioned at the start of this thread?

wouldn`t be the same or better to watch AUD/USD, EUR/USD, GBP/USD, NZD/USD, USD/CAD, USD/CHF and USD/JPY.

if say AUD is the strongest and CAD is the weakest, you could buy AUD/CAD and get more pips.

unless you only want to trade the pairs with a low spread?
Quoting yonnie
why do we watch those pairs mentioned at the start of this thread?

wouldn`t be the same or better to watch AUD/USD, EUR/USD, GBP/USD, NZD/USD, USD/CAD, USD/CHF and USD/JPY.

if say AUD is the strongest and CAD is the weakest, you could buy AUD/CAD and get more pips.

unless you only want to trade the pairs with a low spread?
Yonnie

Trade it in what time zones you have and test it.. I don't rely on any opening sessions EU London or NY. I just open the indicator and wait. Patience is the game. Trade only the bottom pair to start and keep lot size small.

The method has clearly defined pairs, I wouldn't change them just use whats proven to work from the beginning of the thread and concentrate on working the method rather than changing it may be your best option. Keep it Silly Simple

It all comes down to your willingness to
Test on demo over and over until it clicks into place.
With this method nothing is better for understanding it than... test it on demo. Good luck. Read all of the posts by CHIPS.

Cheers
CW.
Numbers from recent demo

Closed my Vantage 30 day demo account as follows.

17 days trading over the 30 day demo period.
Opened 12/3/12 £5000.
Close balance 12/4/12 £8230.
Net profit £3230.

New 30 day demo account opened today 12/4/12 Vantage
Opening balance £3000.

Chips how are you doing?
I have been trading this method on the sidelines and I have learnt a few things that I would like to share. This is not by any yardstick for anyone to use or follow. Just my personal experience---
1. Think like a cornerstore. Days when there are drawdowns and days when there is sales (cash register keeps ringing).
2. Patience is key. No one likes to see 10-15% drawdown. But the beauty is that this comes down by doing nothing. Like everything in life what goes up...comes down and what comes down goes up. This is the core of this strategy.
3. Slow and steady climb. The climb in your results (cash register) will be slow and thats how it should be. If account balance is growing a lot.... a drawdown is just round the corner. You do not want to have a ton of inventory in your store. In other words, slow down when the subconscious starts telling you that cash register is ringing a lot. Hope this makes sense.
4. Trade only 1-2 pairs...
5. At whatever cost DO NOT close a negative drawdown (Trade accordingly...This is what Chips refers to as 'Think Profit')
6. I think this is a great lesson for anyone to learn the art of controlling drawdowns. If one can master this...trading OR running any business has a completely new meaning!

Cheers
- Play Smart!
Quoting profpip
I have been trading this method on the sidelines and I have learnt a few things that I would like to share. This is not by any yardstick for anyone to use or follow. Just my personal experience---
1. Think like a cornerstore. Days when there are drawdowns and days when there is sales (cash register keeps ringing).
2. Patience is key. No one likes to see 10-15% drawdown. But the beauty is that this comes down by doing nothing. Like everything in life what goes up...comes down and what comes down goes up. This is the core of this strategy.
3....
Nice lessons
The 10% is a constantly moving number but its not a realized loss until and if you close the trade (there are heated debates on FF about realized vs unrealized profits/losses). Once you hit close, its over and realized.

As with any business once you have made your profit on a pair, bank it (realize it and add to your equity), and sell more of it if the market is proving hungry for it. Its not that complicated really, takes practice but is worth it... well I have found it to be so.

Its easy to over trade in any method and your right here also. Avoid the temptation to over-trade and add to much stock to the shelves.

Good luck.
I would also like to add 2 more observations under the 'controlling drawdown' category---

1. In addition to doing nothing, I have found that reading/hearing 'expert commentary' on bloomberg OR some news channel helps. I use this more as a confirmation signal only. Infact, I tend to take the trade and slow down immediately in anticipation of a drawdown OR a major increase in balance. If majority of the analysts advocate a trade...I simply go for it as long as
(a) they fall within the parameters of the pitbull indicators.
(b) I have '0 or 1' trade ongoing with 0.4!. In other words, I can take 1-2 trades max.

2. If a trade has gone against you and sticking out like a sore thumb...I have found that adding 2X lots on that sore trade brings down your drawdown as I am averaging on a losing trade with the hope that it will turn for either a retracement or a reversal. I have controlled drawdown remarkably well as a result. As soon as I see +ve profit on the screen ...close ALL the trades. Again, my learnings only.

To me, this second point epitomizes why this is a "Pitbull" strategy.

Cheers
- Play Smart!
This is just my take...and if you DEMO controlling DD.

you will realize that the forex is an up down market..it must cycle....there is no if or but..it's the basis of BUY And Sell.

So how do we trade it....Well DEMO to develop your way of tolerating DD... set the limit 10% whatever of your account bal.

Try to tolerate DD...instead of accepting losses....

DD is a must in forex....so why accept the losses...trade DD....

if you notice is more of the same for the past weeks in the forex..especially AUD GBP AND EUR...if you tried to build positions lately...instead of trading DD..you would probably have 1 position if youre lucky...

Now...Trade DD...and controll it....the power of controlling DD and using timing is key.....

BUY if is up and sell if its DOWN


implement DD controll in the trade... BUYers will be exhausted and Sellers will push the price back down. over-valued currency or underpriced


now dont be in any rush..because these forces takes time to play out...so have patience too...

if you have a large account...you could be running a multimillion dollar business....with ease.


now...very business have a profit projection so I'm in no rush to tripple my accout in days or weeks or even months....

the rush to create profit leads you a to a train wreck.
Quoting chips
This is just my take...and if you DEMO controlling DD.

you will realize that the forex is an up down market..it must cycle....there is no if or but..it's the basis of BUY And Sell.

So how do we trade it....Well DEMO to develop your way of tolerating DD... set the limit 10% whatever of your account bal.

Try to tolerate DD...instead of accepting losses....

DD is a must in forex....so why accept the losses...trade DD....

if you notice is more of the same for the past weeks in the forex..especially AUD GBP AND EUR...if you tried to build...
Hi Chips

Great to see a timely reminder of managing DD.

You're spot on about the sameness.
My recent closed demo was traded for 17 days out of 30 and I took an average 11 trades per day building positions and the account closed at +64%

My new demo is only averaging 6 trades per day.
However even with that (sameness) my account is +6.49% which is a nice steady equity growth. The open trades are in DD by -2.21% which is well within my limits, and I know even with that I can still continue to build my equity.

With the sameness comes a test of patience, which is a key skill you keep eluding to!!!

I have to revisit the start of the thread now and again to remind myself of the basics.... its a business. Preserve and grow your asset, nice and steady, no rush.

One of the key fundamentals of trading is preservation of Capital and giving money away is not preserving capital. When I used to trade and used larger lots and SLs I used to give money away!!!

What might be helpful is an indicator similar to Samir (which I think is brilliant) that shows all the basket pairs in one table with daily and weekly pip range and how far the pair has moved so far. I am aware of pip range indis you can attach to individual charts but one table covering all pairs would be useful. Is there such and indi?

Thanks Chips, further reminders and insights welcome :-)

CW.
Quoting courtneywild
Hi Chips

Great to see a timely reminder of managing DD.

You're spot on about the sameness.
My recent closed demo was traded for 17 days out of 30 and I took an average 11 trades per day building positions and the account closed at +64%

My new demo is only averaging 6 trades per day.
However even with that (sameness) my account is +6.49% which is a nice steady equity growth. The open trades are in DD by -2.21% which is well within my limits, and I know even with that I can still continue to build my equity.

With the sameness comes a test...
Thanks C
Honestly theres noting magical about it...is just knowing that forces in the market place will act against each other and with proper timing you react ...always watching the DD.
using the numbers...and dont b greedy.
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