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One thing you would pass on

  • #41
  • Mar 16, 2012 5:38am Mar 16, 2012 5:38am
Quoting pipmutt
Ummmm...that would be a no. Trading and the revenue it generates is, like I've said, a means to an end, that's all, period. They are two completely separate things. Let's say rather than trading I was flipping burgers to make the money needed to help support the business, by your reckoning I should be proud of being a burger flipper? Are students who take a part-time job to help put themselves through Uni proud of the (often demeaning) job or proud of their academic efforts and achievements? No offence but the argument is ridiculous.

I don't see how you can segregate the two. Your uni example fails terribly because the university education would still be available regardless of whether the part-time work was undertaken or not. They could do it without the work and simply amass more debt. All the work does is ease the burden of debt that they will leave with, it does not make or break the availability of the education.

Where your case differs in every way is that clearly your business is totally reliant on another source of income for it to have a beating heart. Ergo, the very thing you are proud of actually has nothing to revel in. A business that is unable to stand alone in isolation is not a business. It's a pastime. I play a lot of golf. That's my pastime but i'm not proud of that. Why are you proud of yours?

If you had built a viable, employing and sustainable business i'd doff my cap to you and say you are rightly justified in your pride but it doesn't seem that you have. You seem to be claiming pride about a non-existent achievement which I find peculiar.




'Imploring' is probably a bit strong, 'suggesting' better describes my post. This doesn't need to be an either/or choice though, it is possible to do both!
Quoting pipmutt
I suppose I'm just someone who believes that education, career, and ultimately contributing should come first, then you can play at whatever takes your fancy. From reading forums like this one it's easy to get the impression that the majority of people enticed into retail forex are unemployed, unemployable, or just downright lazy day-dreamers who think sitting on their butts clicking a mouse will bring them untold wealth!

Sorry to say but going by some of your posts you epitomise everything which people find distasteful about traders, the...
I don't think life should be so pigeon holed. If people can trade up to a great level of income and then build a good business off the back of that, i'd say that worth any degree or 10 years working in a call-centre. That's not in any way suggesting that there's anything wrong in doing things your way around either and certainly from a safety point of view, it's bloody good advice. It's just not the only way it can be done, it's not the only way life can be done. A lot of musicians are told by their parents to stop being fanciful dreamers and to go and do "proper jobs". Thank God that Clapton, King, Johnson,Hendrix and Waters didn't listen to a word of it. There's always room for the "other path".

I've no doubt you are dead right about many of the people on this forum but that doesn't give you license to tar every trader with the same brush and most certainly does not give you any right to try judge me.

I am 33, i've worked almost every day since I was 18 and now run my own IT sales consultancy. I will be winding that business down as my trading income has now surpassed my business income but in time, I will probably start other businesses, especially a restaurant. I don't really think my work to now has held any more or less value to society than my trading but i'm pretty sure trading will allow me to contribute to society in a far more positive way in the future but also allow me the time to enjoy myself as much as possible along the way. That's a nice balance as I see it.

A nurse recently put together a report based on questions she asked her dying patients in palliative care about regrets and highlights of their life. The number one regret by a mile was that people regret working too much and not spending their time with the people they love. People I love are not sat on ergonomic chairs at the edges of octagonal tables. I don't want to be one of them people who regret their life, I want to look back knowing I made choices that made me and the people who mean the most to me happy. I don't see a lot wrong with that.
  • #42
  • Edited 6:32am Mar 16, 2012 5:48am | Edited 6:32am
Quoting triphop
Off topic, but seeing as you're both from the UK... do you reckon the relentless expansion of unis in the UK has set up hundreds of thousands with false expectations? I'm sure the govt thought degrees create jobs, when it's jobs the create the need for degrees. Anyway carry on... just a bugbear.

I think it's hugely devaluated the importance of a degree to employers. After having spent years advertising for grads, I see plenty of evidence of businesses turning their backs on this route having been burnt by grads coming out with poor degrees in crappy subjects and actually having no sense of what a proper days work is all about. Too much education seems to institutionalise some people and it takes them a long while to adjust to the uniformity and drudge of a fixed-hours job. Experience has now become a significantly more important commodity to employers.

We need to stimulate entrepreneurism in the UK more than ever now. Every incentive should be given to people of all ages to take a calculated risk where they can and start a business up. Going to uni is wonderful if you have a defined career path (my lady is a Dental Therapist so studied at uni for that very aim) but education for the sake of not having to work for another 3 or 4 years, get pissed every night and have more sex than a King's Cross hooker is not worthwhile to anyone, individual or prospective employer.

I also think a culture of something for nothing seems to have cropped up in the last decade, epitomised by the riots last summer. Where it came from isn't absolutely clear but it's ugly and it's a big problem that need addressing...somehow.
  • #43
  • Mar 16, 2012 6:08am Mar 16, 2012 6:08am
Quoting Hugh Briss
If I could pass a message back to myself 4 years ago it would be to not go live until I had thoroughly tested a simple system. When I think back it amazes me that I thought I would be able to make money without a properly thought out and tested system of somekind, whether completely mechanical or with some discretion involved. There are many tools available to new traders to enable them to learn how to trade such as trading simulators (my top recommendation) and demo accounts but how many actually have sat and traded a half thought out system on...
Hugh Briss

That is quite true! I loss thou not much USD26XX in past 4-5 years, I am now gradually tuning myself to be more patience, to wait for the candlestick patterns come to me, to use the proper RR and MM before making trades. Yes, it is a hard process as to reduce the tendency from hitting the buttons, but I am see the improvement.
  • #44
  • Mar 16, 2012 6:26am Mar 16, 2012 6:26am
Quoting Trotty
We need to stimulate entrepreneurism in the UK more than ever now.
Damn straight. Businesses pay the taxes to fund the degrees that provide skills that the businesses don't need. How that's ever supposed to work? Not that every degree needs to be vocational, but kids coming out with degrees in Heaven 17 or whatever aren't exactly what the country needs right now.
  • #45
  • Mar 16, 2012 7:33am Mar 16, 2012 7:33am
Quoting Trotty

I don't see how you can segregate the two. Your uni example fails terribly because the university education would still be available regardless of whether the part-time work was undertaken or not.
Financed by student loans? Great! Foreign students aren't in the same boat though, fees are extortionate.


Quoting Trotty

Where your case differs in every way is that clearly your business is totally reliant on another source of income for it to have a beating heart.
Not totally reliant by any means, parts of it actually produce a healthy profit. Without the additional revenue generated from trading though it would simply mean slower/less expansion, a decrease in staff, and less productivity. The business itself would still exist albeit on a smaller scale. Sorry if that scuppers your argument!


Quoting Trotty

I am 33, i've worked almost every day since I was 18 and now run my own IT sales consultancy.
So after all the back and forth it turns out you've gone pretty much the route I suggested in the first place!


Quoting Trotty

The number one regret by a mile was that people regret working too much and not spending their time with the people they love.
That applies equally to traders as any other job, in fact more so in some instances where traders work from home. People need to try and have definitive working hours so that friends and family aren't neglected, it's often easier said than done though. Gruelling work schedules are one of the main sources of complaint from traders who work for institutions, it's a fiercely competitive environment.


Quoting Trotty

Experience has now become a significantly more important commodity to employers.
So we've come full circle since the 70's/80's, the difference now is that there aren't the jobs available to gain that experience, catch 22.
  • #46
  • Mar 16, 2012 8:24am Mar 16, 2012 8:24am
Quoting pipmutt
Financed by student loans? Great! Foreign students aren't in the same boat though, fees are extortionate.




Not totally reliant by any means, parts of it actually produce a healthy profit. Without the additional revenue generated from trading though it would simply mean slower/less expansion, a decrease in staff, and less productivity. The business itself would still exist albeit on a smaller scale. Sorry if that scuppers your argument!




So after all the back and forth it turns out you've gone pretty much the route I suggested in the first...
I'm not going to drag this down for a tit for tat argument mate, it's just a discussion as far as i'm concerned. I don't like to suggest to others that they do as I have done just because it has worked for me. That's the point i'm making. If some kid finds he's a whizz at trading and decides to focus his early working life on trading retail spot Forex and does very well at it, I would not begrudge him either the money it brings or the lack of perceived value that job might entail. By and large I would agree with you that getting a career behind you first is a sensible move but all i'm saying is that it isn't the ONLY move that's either honourable or effective. Some people are perfectly designed to do this for the rest of their life and enjoy it. If it works for them, good luck to them. There's about as much honour in that as there is working in a production line making dildos and some poor fucker has to do that job as well.

If only we could all have a wonderful education and a career that makes us happy, eh?
  • #47
  • Mar 16, 2012 9:13am Mar 16, 2012 9:13am
Quoting Trotty

There's about as much honour in that as there is working in a production line making dildos and some poor fucker has to do that job as well.
lol, presumably someone has to model for them as well! Gives a totally new meaning to a 'hard day at the office'!!

Quoting Trotty

If only we could all have a wonderful education and a career that makes us happy, eh?
Yep. I didn't, maybe that's why I'm so much in favour of that path. Few regrets though, hey at least it beats moulding rubber dicks for a living, lol
  • #48
  • Mar 16, 2012 9:30am Mar 16, 2012 9:30am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, presumably someone has to model for them as well! Gives a totally new meaning to a 'hard day at the office'!!



Yep. I didn't, maybe that's why I'm so much in favour of that path. Few regrets though, hey at least it beats moulding rubber dicks for a living, lol


I understand more where you're coming from now. You want for your kids to have what you didn't, enjoy the path of least resistance in life that you didn't benefit from. Totally natural, totally understandable.

I sort of did the reverse. My M+D were desperate for me to go to uni and I had a place to go to but turned it down in favour of moving out and working. After some struggles, I worked my way up to a near 6 figure salary (yeah, yeah not all about the money). It may have been easier if i'd gone to uni but I doubt there would have been a lot in it. I'm a huge advocate of higher education with purpose but much less of a fan of education for education's sake unless you were a real high achiever in your youth education (and may go on to win a nobel prize or some such achievement).

Anyway, we all have different views on life, makes the world go round etc, blah, blah. No right or wrong, just different shades. It's Friday, time to think about that first cold one of the weekend. Enjoy (and think of that poor sod who still has 2.5 hours of checking rubber dicks for imperfections!)
  • #49
  • Mar 16, 2012 11:16am Mar 16, 2012 11:16am
Quoting Trotty

It's Friday, time to think about that first cold one of the weekend.
Now you're talking! Have a good one! http://www.jonrb.com/emoticons/drunk.gif
  • #50
  • Mar 16, 2012 11:34am Mar 16, 2012 11:34am
Quoting pipmutt
Yes I do think life is about achieving something to be proud of, I wouldn't really call making money and enjoying oneself an achievement.

Ok compared to a mediocre and mundane 9-5 then being a successful trader would obviously be a better option for most people, but is it something that we and our families could be proud of? Let's face it, it doesn't really take a lot to be a trader, it's practically the same as working on a factory production line (except it pays better and has more flexible hours)

For me trading has become a means to an end,...
The definition of achievement is different for everyone. For me, if someone does something that makes them happy and doesn't harm anyone, thats an awesome achievement for them.
  • #51
  • Mar 16, 2012 1:37pm Mar 16, 2012 1:37pm
Quoting misterboy

The definition of achievement is different for everyone.
Of course it is
  • #52
  • Mar 16, 2012 1:42pm Mar 16, 2012 1:42pm
you have to have a plan, it has to be written down, it has to include rules for each element of the trade, and you must stick to it without question.

then you can trade, if you get to a minimum of 100 trades and youre negative, look to make changes.

Keep a record with screenshot of every trade, if you get to 100 the reason you're negative should jump out at you...

unfortunately most traders are lazy and impatient (me included) so they never get that far and give up.
tradewith60
  • #53
  • Mar 17, 2012 1:40pm Mar 17, 2012 1:40pm
Quoting pipmutt
lol, presumably someone has to model for them as well! Gives a totally new meaning to a 'hard day at the office'!!
Brilliant!
  • #54
  • Mar 17, 2012 10:38pm Mar 17, 2012 10:38pm
In response to the topic


1. Concentrate on one single idea at a time
2. Put little money as long as you learn
3. Learning=losing. You wanna learn on, so never put much money because sth. looks perfect. Tell yourself, the next 20 trades will show me how I perform
4. Respect the flow
5. As long as you lose, pay yourself by opening small positions and never closing them (blind trading with SL and infinite Profit. People call it trendfollowing)


If you break only one of these, the odds are no longer on your side. So give in to them.


Success and insight everyone
  • #55
  • Mar 17, 2012 11:01pm Mar 17, 2012 11:01pm
I tell them to trade the trend, just follow it until otherwise... there are many indicators to tell the trend, one of the most simple and popular is moving averages.
  • #56
  • Mar 18, 2012 12:02am Mar 18, 2012 12:02am
Quoting Hugh Briss
If I could pass a message back to myself 4 years ago it would be to not go live until I had thoroughly tested a simple system. When I think back it amazes me that I thought I would be able to make money without a properly thought out and tested system of somekind, whether completely mechanical or with some discretion involved. There are many tools available to new traders to enable them to learn how to trade such as trading simulators (my top recommendation) and demo accounts but how many actually have sat and traded a half thought out system on...
work on emotional control. don't jump from system to system.

scfx
The best indicator is price.
  • #57
  • Mar 18, 2012 4:20am Mar 18, 2012 4:20am
We're getting some really good advice building up here. At some stage I will have to collate it all and put it in the first post.
  • #58
  • Mar 18, 2012 4:37am Mar 18, 2012 4:37am
remove emotion by keeping your position small,

a win should not be too exciting and a loss not to devastating...

solves fear and greed in one step..
tradewith60
  • #59
  • Last Post: Mar 18, 2012 8:40am Mar 18, 2012 8:40am

  1. Find a mentor
  2. Buy from sellers, sell from buyers
  3. Your hardest opponent in trading is yourself
  4. Spend 80% of your trading education on personal development
  5. Find out why you trade

You can quit and they won't care, but you will always know.
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