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The 3 Elements of a Successful Trader

  • #21
  • Mar 16, 2012 12:03pm Mar 16, 2012 12:03pm
N11
Quote
Tell me how will discipline make you money in casino when playing roulette? First you need and EDGE and only after that u need discipline to execute the system with an properly defined edge.

I am assuming one has some plan, strategy, system or rule set in place. The edge only comes from quantification and belief.

And therein lies the problem. To have an edge you first must have the discipline to compile the data to define the edge. Most traders don't.

My assertion is that no matter what you believe your edge to be, the discipline to act on it consistently will be the failure of your edge being realized.

I maintain that every aspect of successful trading starts with discipline; perhaps not exclusive of all other factors, but predominantly and continually.

And for roulette, bet on red every time!
  • #22
  • Mar 16, 2012 12:12pm Mar 16, 2012 12:12pm
Quoting dcginc
N11

I am assuming one has some plan, strategy, system or rule set in place. The edge only comes from quantification and belief.
The edge comes from positive expetancy formula. Determining the true edge is very hard on forex due to the fact that its not static but its dynamic market. But i think in general an aproximate edge can be determined over large sample of trades.


Quote
I maintain that every aspect of successful trading starts with discipline
Yes this is true but the discipline itself doesnt give you an positive expectacy formula. The discipline is only there to execute the edge and the system.


Quote
And for roulette, bet on red every time!
I cant argue with that

But on a serious note, roulette table is a perfect example of something which has and negative edge for the player and positive edge for casino. Therefore no amount of discipline can make you money on the long term. You might get lucky in the short term and you might use the discipline to delay the inevitable but sooner or later you have to fail due to the fact that you dont have the EDGE there. (unless u are cheating )
  • #23
  • Mar 17, 2012 3:40am Mar 17, 2012 3:40am
"..I've spent the last several months speculating on doomsday fears with europe. I got paid when people were scared shitless about the outlook of the global economy. Should that be bad karma? I got rewarded for betting on the continuation of the financial crisis, multiple times. The future will more than likely offer me opportunities to do it again too.

In the eyes of most people I'm a spiritual/moral peice of shit for the paragraph above this sentence alone. It won't stop me from making money though because I have an edge and the control to use it."

Hi Tact1cal, My opinion since traders do not cause this crisis directly, but taking advantage from the situation is not a wrong deed.

If have found your edge and the control, congratulations!
  • #24
  • Mar 17, 2012 4:42am Mar 17, 2012 4:42am
Quoting isaacyassar
Agreed.

Imo the most important is spiritual, but doesn't have to be karma. I mean in a sense as if a trader are in good spiritual/vibration/state of being like optimism, hope, excitement, joy, etc then he will attract the right system and the right discipline through a way. Vice versa. This is in agreement with Law of Attraction.

Imo Karma is a tool only, it can help or tackle you. If you think you have good karma and it will bring you success, it will. If you think you have bad karma and it will invite losses, it will. Your mind empowers it....
We are in the minority group who believe spiritual & trading are related..

For me, out of these 3 elements, spiritual actually weighted the most important.

Karma(因果业力) is a huge subject.
Contrary to popular belief, karma is not a constant that can't be changed.
Let's take 'Spiritual Account' as an analogy. When we do good stuff 'Spiritual points' will be added point to the account, and vice versa.
And for a person/ trader with big 'spiritual account balance', they tend to emit positive energy.. hence attracting good things to come to their life, (including Edge).
  • #25
  • Mar 17, 2012 4:46am Mar 17, 2012 4:46am
Quoting Les Lau
Recently i contemplate a lot on what makes a trader successful.
Here's my insight.. .

Edge(system) + Discipline(psychology) + Good Karma(spiritual)
= Successful Trader

System, psychology, spiritual, these 3 elements are interconnected.
Trader should improve & work on these 3 areas.

I will post more about this topic, everybody is welcome to give ur
precious comments as well..

Cheers!
Trading successfully: I would skip Karma and add Education.
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #26
  • Mar 17, 2012 9:26am Mar 17, 2012 9:26am
Quoting Trade2Day
Before opening the thread I tried guessing your 3 and nailed the first 2 (edge + discipline). I don't know if the third one (Karma) is a necessity, but it could be if it affects your discipline. You could maybe make a case for money management in the form of not overleveraging, but that might be classified under discipline as well. Actually I would call that experience and mark that as #3. Anyway, nice post.

1. Edge
2. Discipline
3. Experience
Tq for the appreciation!

I would classified money management under the Edge (System).

Edge (System):

 

  1. Setup Entry
  2. Exit Strategies/ RRR
  3. Money Management

  • #27
  • Mar 17, 2012 9:44am Mar 17, 2012 9:44am
Quoting Sarythsaya
I want to address your third point. I don't think the statement is very helpful if only for the fact that everyone and every Buddhist sect has a different opinion on karma.

I will explain in my own terms how the statement could be true.

One of my favourite teachers, Bankei, said that 'everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn'.

Basically in my view, your karma is just where you are in this moment - all your eons of karma is perfectly reflected in this moment - as opposed to the view that you have a huge string of debt to wear off at some...
I agree that when reside in our true nature(the unborn) we won't create negative karma, however it doesn't meant old karma won't 'touch' you!

There is such thing as karma debt.

Karma is 'cause & effect', karma is 'reap what you sow'..
In physical dimension there is time lapsed between cause and the effect.
Sometimes the effect take longer time to be manifested(when conditions matured), and some times certain reaction can be very fast.

Take this metaphor for karma:
Someone eat the wrong food, the effect might come only after 1 day..
Different story if someone barefooted step on a nail , the effect is immediate, ouch!
  • #28
  • Mar 17, 2012 10:28am Mar 17, 2012 10:28am
Quoting Les Lau
Recently i contemplate a lot on what makes a trader successful.
Here's my insight.. .

Edge(system) + Discipline(psychology) + Good Karma(spiritual)
= Successful Trader

System, psychology, spiritual, these 3 elements are interconnected.
Trader should improve & work on these 3 areas.

I will post more about this topic, everybody is welcome to give ur
precious comments as well..

Cheers!

Agreed whole heartedly
There is no substitute of hard work and experience. $ € £ ¥
  • #29
  • Mar 17, 2012 11:10am Mar 17, 2012 11:10am
Excellent qoute
  • #30
  • Mar 17, 2012 4:02pm Mar 17, 2012 4:02pm
N11
Quote
The edge comes from positive expectancy formula.

That is what I was referring to with "quantification." Quantifiable positive performance to build the belief and then the discipline to execute.

Yes, the house has and edge and you are correct, over time they will defintely prevail!

That is why I play poker!

dcginc
  • #31
  • Mar 17, 2012 4:39pm Mar 17, 2012 4:39pm
Quoting dcginc
N11

That is what I was referring to with "quantification." Quantifiable positive performance to build the belief and then the discipline to execute.

Yes, the house has and edge and you are correct, over time they will defintely prevail!

That is why I play poker!

dcginc
Too much vague stuff in this thread.
One advice guys, start learning FX.
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  • #32
  • Mar 18, 2012 1:39pm Mar 18, 2012 1:39pm
KillerWhale
Quote
One advice guys, start learning FX.

Good advice . . . a little vague though!

dcginc
  • #33
  • Mar 19, 2012 9:20am Mar 19, 2012 9:20am
Beginner trader can learn from this 2 dice (probability) game.
If we throw 2 dices, what's the % chances of getting total 2,3,... 12?

Pls search: gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/probability/calcdice.htm
  • #34
  • Mar 19, 2012 5:13pm Mar 19, 2012 5:13pm
Quoting dcginc
KillerWhale

Good advice . . . a little vague though!

dcginc
okay, this is where you start:

www.babypips.com

(just my 2 yen)
New voice message: Why are you calling me? If I need you, I'll call you!
  • #35
  • Mar 19, 2012 9:06pm Mar 19, 2012 9:06pm
Quoting Les Lau
Beginner trader can learn from this 2 dice (probability) game.
If we throw 2 dices, what's the % chances of getting total 2,3,... 12?

Pls search: gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/probability/calcdice.htm
The probability of 2 or 12 is 3%. Chances of getting 7 is the highest, at 17%.
  • #36
  • Mar 19, 2012 9:16pm Mar 19, 2012 9:16pm
Quoting Roofx
As traders we contribute very little to society. We take other people's money. It is a lot like gambling.
There is a difference between a trader & a gambler.
Trading without an Edge is gambling.
When someone trade with a solid Egde, probability(advantage) of getting profitable is on his side.
Then this is a real pro..
  • #37
  • Mar 21, 2012 6:40am Mar 21, 2012 6:40am
Quoting Roofx
As traders we contribute very little to society. We take other people's money. It is a lot like gambling. I'm not a gambling man. I don't even like spending a dollar on the lottery. But I trade because I can't make much money from my honourable business that does give a lot fo society.
Hi Roofx, i agree that aside providing liquidities to the market, this trading business don't give much to the society.
You have nice tread in FF, Interactive Euro Scalping.
We trade the same pair & timeframe..!
  • #38
  • Mar 21, 2012 6:41am Mar 21, 2012 6:41am
Is trading cosidered a zero sum game?
  • #39
  • Mar 21, 2012 7:44am Mar 21, 2012 7:44am
Quoting Les Lau
Is trading cosidered a zero sum game?
The short answer is yes.
But its not that simple...forex is always oscillating beetwen positive sum and negative sum game however the long term average is always a zero sum game.

Quote
You have nice tread in FF,Interactive Euro Scalping.
We trade the same pair & timeframe..!
Im also trading on M1 charts only. Perhaps we should make a scalpers section here on forum
  • #40
  • Mar 22, 2012 10:02am Mar 22, 2012 10:02am
I don't do scalping.. M1 chart zoom out to the smallest(equal to M5/ M15 chart) for analysis,
then zoon in again for actual trading.
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