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One thing you would pass on

  • #21
  • Mar 15, 2012 7:39am Mar 15, 2012 7:39am
Quoting pipmutt
There's more to life than money, it might be fun at first but like I say the novelty soon wears off!

Jobs and careers needn't be tedious, some people actually enjoy their job and are extremely well paid!
I think you misunderstand me slightly.

I don't trade to become a multi-millionaire, I trade to have the freedom to do the things that I want to do. There isn't another job I could possibly do that is as flexible as trading. Therefore the money is only really important as a means of sustaining this lifestyle, that's the subtle difference to it being simply about the money and nothing more.

My ideal careers were either to be a professional sportsman or a chef. Given that i'm 33, I would think the former has passed me by now and the latter is a problem because I hate unsociable working hours and faint a lot in hot rooms!

I love trading, I love that you are your own boss with it and you can set your own agenda. You don't have to do it 10 hours a day your whole life and a lot of grunt work in the early days will give you more freedom of both time and money in the later days It's a good deal.

If life for you is all about having a defined job/career and the "achievement" of it all then good for you, absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me, life is about enjoying your time with the people you care about most, doing as many of the things you like the most and seeing the world. Trading for a living allows you to do all that if you do well in the endeavour. It's a horses for courses thing.
  • #22
  • Mar 15, 2012 8:46am Mar 15, 2012 8:46am
Quoting Trotty

"achievement"
Yes I do think life is about achieving something to be proud of, I wouldn't really call making money and enjoying oneself an achievement.

Ok compared to a mediocre and mundane 9-5 then being a successful trader would obviously be a better option for most people, but is it something that we and our families could be proud of? Let's face it, it doesn't really take a lot to be a trader, it's practically the same as working on a factory production line (except it pays better and has more flexible hours)

For me trading has become a means to an end, to support an uneconomical business which I enjoy immensely. It's the business which I consider my achievement, revenue generated from trading is just a necessary evil.
  • #23
  • Mar 15, 2012 10:01am Mar 15, 2012 10:01am
Quoting pipmutt
Yes I do think life is about achieving something to be proud of, I wouldn't really call making money and enjoying oneself an achievement.

Ok compared to a mediocre and mundane 9-5 then being a successful trader would obviously be a better option for most people, but is it something that we and our families could be proud of? Let's face it, it doesn't really take a lot to be a trader, it's practically the same as working on a factory production line (except it pays better and has more flexible hours)

For me trading has become a means to an end,...
As I said before, there absolutely nothing at all wrong with that. We clearly have a different perspective on life though. I don't live to be proud of myself by the work I do and I certainly don't live for others to be proud of me either. I see life as a simple thing. We are astonishingly lucky to be here and we won't be here any more in 100 years time. People like Shakespear, Newton, Darwin and Brunel may have left with them a lasting legacy and a constant reminder of their time on the planet but their achievements matter as much to their dead selves as it does to the bloke who worked in a library all his life. We are all rotting corpses one day.

That's not to say we should not strive to do altruistic things where we can and be decent people during our time on this rock for me personally, I have an unshakeable and selfish desire to try and enjoy every single day. That's very hard to do unless you do the job of your dreams and how few of us get to do that?

If I can get to be an old man and have done most or all of the things I want to do with my life, i'll be a happy old man. Trading is the means to help me get there.
  • #24
  • Mar 15, 2012 10:04am Mar 15, 2012 10:04am
Quoting pipmutt
Yes I do think life is about achieving something to be proud of, I wouldn't really call making money and enjoying oneself an achievement.

Ok compared to a mediocre and mundane 9-5 then being a successful trader would obviously be a better option for most people, but is it something that we and our families could be proud of?
Just to add, the stark reality is that most people do have jobs that are mundane and dull but also boast terrible pay. For them, if they could make it as traders, that would be a significant improvement to their life. It also may allow them to go and pursue careers or lines of work that were previously much harder to attain with the contrainsts of time and the need to still pay bills.
  • #25
  • Mar 15, 2012 2:57pm Mar 15, 2012 2:57pm
Quoting Trotty

We clearly have a different perspective on life though. I don't live to be proud of myself by the work I do and I certainly don't live for others to be proud of me either.
You're right, we clearly have a different perspective on life....
  • #26
  • Edited Mar 16, 2012 2:27am Mar 15, 2012 4:29pm | Edited Mar 16, 2012 2:27am
Quoting pipmutt
You're right, we clearly have a different perspective on life....
This much is evident. One question. Why are you proud of a business that needs income from something that you aren't proud of doing to keep it viable? Challenging juxtaposition that one.....
  • #27
  • Mar 15, 2012 6:07pm Mar 15, 2012 6:07pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
Before I paint myself as a prick as I'm good at doing I will add that I believe in the question of this thread, it could be very interesting but I'm just saying personally the most beneficial "lessons" if you will, for me, in trading, have been the most painful.

Why rob any new guys from that? There's no shortcuts to anywhere worth going, as someone once said... You don't know to stay away from a mangy dog until you've been bitten by one. (I think that one was from trading in the zone.). Shit book too.
Uhm, but what if I'm kind of pain-averse (whatever you would call the opposite of a masochist)? Not that you would "rob" many guys from painful experiences because most of the time people are too stubborn and stupid to listen to others. From all facets of life, there have been people who have made mistakes and warned others about them, and the others will then make the same mistakes because they are dumbasses that refuse to listen, and the cycle continues.

Life becomes a whole lot less tedious when you simply listen when someone tells you the stove is hot, rather then touching it anyway and burning your hands before taking the lesson to heart.
  • #28
  • Mar 15, 2012 6:18pm Mar 15, 2012 6:18pm
Quoting Trotty

Why are you proud of a business that needs income from something that you aren't proud of doing to keep it viable?
They're two separate things entirely. Even though I enjoy trading I have no particular feelings about it one way or the other, like I say it's simply a means to an end, the end being an achievement I'm proud of.
  • #29
  • Mar 15, 2012 6:35pm Mar 15, 2012 6:35pm
1) Start small and don't move up in size until you have proved you can sustain positive results over time.

2) Trade a healthy range of instruments with a variety of techniques, don't be a one trick pony.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #30
  • Mar 15, 2012 8:01pm Mar 15, 2012 8:01pm
Get rid of all your charts. Get rid of your chart patterns, price patterns and technical indicators.

Don't use any chart patterns, price patterns, or technical indicators until you know how to trade without a chart.
Private message me for a link to my order flow website.
  • #31
  • Mar 16, 2012 3:17am Mar 16, 2012 3:17am
Quoting pipmutt
They're two separate things entirely. Even though I enjoy trading I have no particular feelings about it one way or the other, like I say it's simply a means to an end, the end being an achievement I'm proud of.
Not wishing to seem provocative here mate but you have suggested (I may be reading it poorly) that you use your trading income to prop up a business that would not be commercially viable if it were to operate in isolation.

You then say that making money is nothing to be proud of but running your business is. But if the business could not run without the trading income, is it really the business that you are proud of here or should it really be that your decision to learn how to trade has allowed you to run this business and that's what you are truly proud of?

I may be reading far too much into that but it seems to me that your pride is a little misplaced, a sense a little contradiction.

Also, rather than imploring people to further their careers first, why should folk not follow your example and run businesses that they enjoy with the security of trading income to fall back on? I will probably follow that sort of path at some point and open a restaurant up. Entrepreneurism should be encouraged at every turn, more so now than in many other points in history.
  • #32
  • Mar 16, 2012 3:26am Mar 16, 2012 3:26am
Quoting Trotty
Not wishing to seem provocative here mate but you have suggested (I may be reading it poorly) that you use your trading income to prop up a business that would not be commercially viable if it were to operate in isolation.

You then say that making money is nothing to be proud of but running your business is. But if the business could not run without the trading income, is it really the business that you are proud of here or should it really be that your decision to learn how to trade has allowed you to run this business and that's what you are...
Excuse me for butting in..

I think what Pipmutt was saying and I tend to agree. Is that trading is a boring. mundane, and soulless profession. A normal business or career is much more fulfilling and a better contribution to society perhaps.

Does that make trading bad? No, just boring, mundane and soulless, that's all. Legal income is always a good thing though, better than robbing banks or selling your body.
Time hides Nothing
  • #33
  • Mar 16, 2012 3:32am Mar 16, 2012 3:32am
BUY GOLD)))))))))))
  • #34
  • Mar 16, 2012 3:34am Mar 16, 2012 3:34am
Quoting Pipsgeek
Uhm, but what if I'm kind of pain-averse (whatever you would call the opposite of a masochist)? Not that you would "rob" many guys from painful experiences because most of the time people are too stubborn and stupid to listen to others. From all facets of life, there have been people who have made mistakes and warned others about them, and the others will then make the same mistakes because they are dumbasses that refuse to listen, and the cycle continues.

Life becomes a whole lot less tedious when you simply listen when someone tells you the...
Each to their own. You can preach all you want about leverage, over trading, getting rich quick, but the only people that actually need to hear this advice are the ones that won't listen in the first place. They won't agree until they blow a sizable sum of money 'Or touched the stove" to use your metaphor.

Until you've burned your hand all you know is that apparently that stove is hot. You have no proof, just something you were told and now believe. Once you get burned you least know how it feels, and can either prove or disprove what you were told with conviction.
Time hides Nothing
  • #35
  • Mar 16, 2012 3:47am Mar 16, 2012 3:47am
Quoting CindyXXXX
A normal business or career is much more fulfilling and a better contribution to society perhaps.
depends how you feel about normal business / careers and society.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #36
  • Mar 16, 2012 4:14am Mar 16, 2012 4:14am
Quoting CindyXXXX
Excuse me for butting in..

I think what Pipmutt was saying and I tend to agree. Is that trading is a boring. mundane, and soulless profession. A normal business or career is much more fulfilling and a better contribution to society perhaps.

Does that make trading bad? No, just boring, mundane and soulless, that's all. Legal income is always a good thing though, better than robbing banks or selling your body.
That's no problem, you're welcome to butt in anytime.

It may not have appeared that way but I did understand exactly what he meant, I just don't entirely agree.

Most jobs are soulless and mundane. There are a scant few lucky people who are fortunate to do jobs that they can truly enthuse about and that make them happy. The rest of us work in call centres, paint road markings on roads or fix people's broken toilets. If we could all go out and do the jobs that would make us happy, there would be nobody left to do that jobs that make us depressed!

So, trading offers a few huge benefits for most people. The flexibility to set your own working hours around how you want to live your life. The ability to be you own boss - a big one for me. The ability to eventually earn more than you can in most professions giving security and a prosperous future to you and your family. One day, if you are good, you may be able to "work" no more than a few hours a week and spend the rest of that time doing things you enjoy.

The actual work may not be very exciting or fulfilling but the way in which it can enrich and gold plate the rest of your waking hours can more than make up for the lack of stimulation it may bring you. Throw in the fact that being a good and successful trader may allow you to pursue other business practices that may have otherwise been varnished in unacceptable risk, I struggle to see why people should be discouraged from it.

Anyway, i'm a discretionary trader and I get a buzz from chopping the charts up, making sense of them and then entering successful trades based on my ability to unravel those proverbial mysteries. The novelty hasn't worn off yet so maybe one man's/woman's tedium is another man's/woman's stimulation.
  • #37
  • Edited 5:11am Mar 16, 2012 5:01am | Edited 5:11am
Quoting Trotty

....if the business could not run without the trading income, is it really the business that you are proud of here or should it really be that your decision to learn how to trade has allowed you to run this business and that's what you are truly proud of?
Ummmm...that would be a no. Trading and the revenue it generates is, like I've said, a means to an end, that's all, period. They are two completely separate things. Let's say rather than trading I was flipping burgers to make the money needed to help support the business, by your reckoning I should be proud of being a burger flipper? Are students who take a part-time job to help put themselves through Uni proud of the (often demeaning) job or proud of their academic efforts and achievements? No offence but the argument is ridiculous.


Quoting Trotty

Also, rather than imploring people to further their careers first, why should folk not follow your example and run businesses that they enjoy with the security of trading income to fall back on?
'Imploring' is probably a bit strong, 'suggesting' better describes my post. This doesn't need to be an either/or choice though, it is possible to do both!

I suppose I'm just someone who believes that education, career, and ultimately contributing should come first, then you can play at whatever takes your fancy. From reading forums like this one it's easy to get the impression that the majority of people enticed into retail forex are unemployed, unemployable, or just downright lazy day-dreamers who think sitting on their butts clicking a mouse will bring them untold wealth!

Sorry to say but going by some of your posts you epitomise everything which people find distasteful about traders, the City, and speculation!
  • #38
  • Mar 16, 2012 5:10am Mar 16, 2012 5:10am
Quoting pipmutt
Let's say rather than trading I was flipping burgers to make the money needed to help support the business, by your reckoning I should be proud of being a burger flipper? Are students who take a part-time job to help put themselves through Uni proud of the (often demeaning) job or proud of their academic efforts and achievements?
Off topic, but seeing as you're both from the UK... do you reckon the relentless expansion of unis in the UK has set up hundreds of thousands with false expectations? I'm sure the govt thought degrees create jobs, when it's jobs the create the need for degrees. Anyway carry on... just a bugbear.
  • #39
  • Mar 16, 2012 5:19am Mar 16, 2012 5:19am
Quoting triphop

Off topic, but seeing as you're both from the UK... do you reckon the relentless expansion of unis in the UK has set up hundreds of thousands with false expectations? I'm sure the govt thought degrees create jobs, when it's jobs the create the need for degrees. Anyway carry on... just a bugbear.
It's a hot debate here, especially in our household at the moment (our daughter wants to get a job rather than go to Uni!)

I'm not naiive enough to believe degrees create jobs per se but I do believe they create better opportunities and life choices for the graduate.
  • #40
  • Mar 16, 2012 5:21am Mar 16, 2012 5:21am
i smell a dirty hippy / commie
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
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