One thing you would pass on | Forex Factory

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One thing you would pass on

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 11, 2012 3:26am Mar 11, 2012 3:26am
If I could pass a message back to myself 4 years ago it would be to not go live until I had thoroughly tested a simple system. When I think back it amazes me that I thought I would be able to make money without a properly thought out and tested system of somekind, whether completely mechanical or with some discretion involved. There are many tools available to new traders to enable them to learn how to trade such as trading simulators (my top recommendation) and demo accounts but how many actually have sat and traded a half thought out system on a simulator to get an idea of how it trades in real time?

That would be the one thing that I would pass on to new traders, get yourself some system ideas (search for trading strategies on a search engine and go through the simple ideas you can find there) and then test the daylights out of anything and everything. If you can't make money trading it on a simulator then you probably won't make money trading it on demo and therefore you probably won't make money trading it live. So why bother? If you haven't even bothered to do the above and you are trading by the seat of your pants you will most likely lose money anyway, and quickly!

To all experienced traders, what one thing would you pass on to a trader just starting out?
  • #2
  • Mar 11, 2012 7:02am Mar 11, 2012 7:02am
Buy at demand. Sell at supply.
  • #3
  • Mar 11, 2012 7:36am Mar 11, 2012 7:36am
Quoting Vitaluna
Buy at demand. Sell at supply.
Good one, I've heard a lot about supply and demand but never looked too deeply into it myself. I believe there's a man called Sam Seiden (check spelling) who is worth looking out for?
  • #4
  • Edited 9:21am Mar 12, 2012 8:01am | Edited 9:21am
Quoting Hugh Briss
If I could pass a message back to myself 4 years ago it would be to not go live until I had thoroughly tested a simple system. When I think back it amazes me that I thought I would be able to make money without a properly thought out and tested system of somekind, whether completely mechanical or with some discretion involved. There are many tools available to new traders to enable them to learn how to trade such as trading simulators (my top recommendation) and demo accounts but how many actually have sat and traded a half thought out system on...
Great thing, agree. That's where I'm at.


Another, to me:

  1. Money is money. There is no test of losing real money, that's just
    a gut thought you want to feel deeply enough to move on to genuine experience.
  2. Exploring the breadth of trading before reducing it to what you deem sensible is a necessary rush after this
    that carries one's trading skills into maturity.
  3. For a big-enough energy with this rush, there are other ways than losing real money. Ideas:

    1. Push a method to its risk limits in practice.
    2. Include emotions -- using models and borrowing from life experiences, perhaps -- in it.
    3. Try a pennies account, to get a taste of real. Keep it short, as taxes are also necessary.
    4. At the last, a full real amount WITH STOPS IN PLACE to avoid sacrifice,
      and the feel with it only a few trades, may complete the task.

I've been thinking about this for a while, since I did lose a lot of money early in trading.

  • #5
  • Mar 12, 2012 9:01am Mar 12, 2012 9:01am
Quoting Hugh Briss

To all experienced traders, what one thing would you pass on to a trader just starting out?
Don't!

Get a career first, do something, anything, making money isn't the be-all and end-all and the novelty wears off, it's like being a kid in a candy store. Plenty of time to trade later.....
  • #6
  • Mar 14, 2012 1:08pm Mar 14, 2012 1:08pm
i would send a weekly chart of EU from today.
.
  • #7
  • Mar 14, 2012 1:19pm Mar 14, 2012 1:19pm
Quoting Hugh Briss
If I could pass a message back to myself 4 years ago it would be to not go live until I had thoroughly tested a simple system. When I think back it amazes me that I thought I would be able to make money without a properly thought out and tested system of somekind, whether completely mechanical or with some discretion involved. There are many tools available to new traders to enable them to learn how to trade such as trading simulators (my top recommendation) and demo accounts but how many actually have sat and traded a half thought out system on...
Nice point. It's true that so many beginners just come in buying and selling without a strategy other than averaging down. I recommend checking out some strategies I've put on my site in my signature below. Even if you don't use one to the tee, you can maybe learn something and create your own. It's hard for me to pinpoint one thing I would pass back, but if I had to choose one I would go with the knowledge on the concept of leverage.
  • #8
  • Mar 14, 2012 1:20pm Mar 14, 2012 1:20pm
Quoting nasir.khan
i would send a weekly chart of EU from today.
.
Best answer.
  • #9
  • Mar 14, 2012 1:37pm Mar 14, 2012 1:37pm
Be able to explain why/how your strategy works or doesn't in differing market conditions, even simply between ranges and trends.

Learning the math behind leverage and risk is easy enough. And there are more than enough systems and strategies out there. Once you're able to decipher why a system may or may not work, it will start you thinking down the right path in terms of market dynamics.

If you're simply stuck at writing rules, changing indicators, and backtesting, I suspect you'll never actually learn to trade the market and instead will focus your time and energy on fitting curves.
  • #10
  • Mar 14, 2012 1:48pm Mar 14, 2012 1:48pm
Quoting smittens4212
Be able to explain why/how your strategy works or doesn't in differing market conditions, even simply between ranges and trends.

Learning the math behind leverage and risk is easy enough. And there are more than enough systems and strategies out there. Once you're able to decipher why a system may or may not work, it will start you thinking down the right path in terms of market dynamics.

If you're simply stuck at writing rules, changing indicators, and backtesting, I suspect you'll never actually learn to trade the market and instead will focus...
This is a big one for me, as I've learned MQL4, been programming new EA's non-stop, when what I should've been doing is examining how and why markets move and what could help me with identifying these moves.

I've read a couple of books about trading, and I'm slowly realizing that there might not be an EA within my programming capabilities that can make profits because a large part is subjective, and a good enough mechanical system probably doesn't exist.

All I can hope for now is that it doesn't take me years in the game before being able to lock in profits, although this is probably going to be the case. Atleast it gives me time to build capital...
  • #11
  • Mar 14, 2012 2:14pm Mar 14, 2012 2:14pm
Quoting Pipsgeek
This is a big one for me, as I've learned MQL4, been programming new EA's non-stop, when what I should've been doing is examining how and why markets move and what could help me with identifying these moves.

I've read a couple of books about trading, and I'm slowly realizing that there might not be an EA within my programming capabilities that can make profits because a large part is subjective, and a good enough mechanical system probably doesn't exist.
I've got nothing against automated systems and the like, but I agree with your statement about understanding why and how markets move. I believe if you learn this first, the chances that you are able to code a profitable system are increased drastically. Instead of coding indicators and backtesting to see what works, you should approach it from the perspective of knowing what works, and attempting to write rules and code indicators based on that. Unfortunately learning what works and how the market works can be a long learning process that many aren't willing to subscribe too.

Which brings me to my second point: I don't believe the overwhelming majority of people who try to code their own EAs here will ever come close to a truly profitable system they can turn on and walk away. I don't think the mechanical systems that are generated here are complex enough to deal with ever changing market conditions; they're almost all written with certain conditions in mind (and often times curve fitted to those conditions), and then fall apart when those conditions inevitably change.
  • #12
  • Mar 14, 2012 5:56pm Mar 14, 2012 5:56pm
Get a med degree... join msf... do something useful. Then get into trading.
  • #13
  • Mar 14, 2012 6:03pm Mar 14, 2012 6:03pm
know your risk
  • #14
  • Mar 14, 2012 6:11pm Mar 14, 2012 6:11pm
Quoting mfoste1
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
You always want those as counterparties... the average human is unbelievably narrow minded and with great lack of intelligence especially when it comes to pulling a lot of things together. Don't follow the mass. Front run them... fade them.
  • #15
  • Mar 15, 2012 3:59am Mar 15, 2012 3:59am
Quoting pipmutt
Don't!

Get a career first, do something, anything, making money isn't the be-all and end-all and the novelty wears off, it's like being a kid in a candy store. Plenty of time to trade later.....
Making a viable and sustainable income from trading is not necessarily about the amount of money that I can make but the amount of money that I do make does determine whether or not I get what I want to get out of this endeavour.

What I mean by that is that life is for living for me. It isn't about being tied down to a tedious 9-5 job for a half-arsed salary. It's about doing more of the things that make me happy and having a "typical career" will never do that. I trade with regularity at the moment but as my account grows I can gradually scale down my trading hours and spend more time enjoying the money I make. If all goes to plan, in time to come i'll probably spend less than an hour a day messing around with the charts and the rest of the time getting out there and enjoying life.

Anyway, to answer the question from the OP, my advice to my greener self would actually be to avoid systems totally. Just learn how to read the charts and understand what it all means. Don't get sucked into working with defined systems and indicator based stuff and spend as much time learning price action on a simulator as possible.

Once you have total confidence in your ability to unravel the price action, all you need then is an effective trade management system/approach and you can never look back again.

I don't regret much though. I don't regret the lost money, the massive mistakes, the "wasted" time on systems and indicators and the untold hours reading poorly conceived cack written on forums. Yeah, with the benefit of hindsight i'd have done it differently but it still got me where I wanted to be at the end.

Funny thing is, I recall reading similar things to what I am writing now, 3/4 years ago. I paid about as much attention to it as most people will this. Sigh.
  • #16
  • Mar 15, 2012 4:42am Mar 15, 2012 4:42am
Quoting Trotty

What I mean by that is that life is for living for me. It isn't about being tied down to a tedious 9-5 job for a half-arsed salary.
There's more to life than money, it might be fun at first but like I say the novelty soon wears off!

Jobs and careers needn't be tedious, some people actually enjoy their job and are extremely well paid!
  • #17
  • Mar 15, 2012 4:46am Mar 15, 2012 4:46am
Um... Really?

There's nothing to pass on because unfortunately we can't go back in time.

If you went back 4 years you'd make the same dumb choices you made before simply because everything you went through in your life up until that point lead you to think act and feel a certain way.

What makes you think going back would change anything?

Like asking yourself on Friday; how would you trade Monday if you could do it again?

A better question maybe... How could I trade next week with the experience I've learn't from the last week.

Or maybe we can just shut our eyes and dream of better things than reality. Each to their own
Time hides Nothing
  • #18
  • Mar 15, 2012 5:06am Mar 15, 2012 5:06am
Before I paint myself as a prick as I'm good at doing I will add that I believe in the question of this thread, it could be very interesting but I'm just saying personally the most beneficial "lessons" if you will, for me, in trading, have been the most painful.

Why rob any new guys from that? There's no shortcuts to anywhere worth going, as someone once said... You don't know to stay away from a mangy dog until you've been bitten by one. (I think that one was from trading in the zone.). Shit book too.

So to answer the question what would I pass on to myself 4 years ago if I could go back? Nothing... I'd gladly go through the same sh*t all the way to today just to prove nothing but what's real TO ME.

That';s all

Very good thread though and very interesting question... Keep it poppin'
Time hides Nothing
  • #19
  • Mar 15, 2012 5:37am Mar 15, 2012 5:37am
Quoting CindyXXXX

What makes you think going back would change anything?
I don't think anyone is saying 'go back', it's more 'if I knew then what I know now', and what would be the most significant thing to pass on to someone starting out.

With hindsight if you can't think of one thing you could have done better then you're perfect!
  • #20
  • Mar 15, 2012 6:07am Mar 15, 2012 6:07am
Quoting Trotty
Funny thing is, I recall reading similar things to what I am writing now, 3/4 years ago. I paid about as much attention to it as most people will this. Sigh.
Lol, good post.
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