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The life of a trading system on Forex Factory

  • #21
  • Mar 10, 2012 3:12am Mar 10, 2012 3:12am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Having read many of the system threads myself, I always enjoyed when the OP describes his system as simple with only 1 or 2 indicators max and asks everyone to keep it that way. 20 pages later the system charts look like a rainbow with all the different indicators everyone has added.
Yes, with all the indicators, windows and subwindows I need a magnifying glass to see the price on those charts. I guess the price is not that important, the system works without it.

One of the things I like most is when people start adding lines to explain why the price turned. It's not because some talking head just made an important statement or some big banks have an interest to buy a certain currency at that level. No, no ... it is because the ultra-camarilla-fibo-midpivot on the GMT+2 charts was exactly there. When people add all the levels, trendlines, bands and important moving averages there is a line every 5 pips. Then wherever the price stops they are in awe - look, the price respected my line!

But what really cracks me up is when people ask something like "I followed all the rules and look, my trade was a loss! What did I do wrong?". They don't get it. They don't understand that all they have is a tiny edge (if they have it), it's a game of probabilities. To make things worse, other traders rush to find reasons why the trade went south. You know, it's because Mondays are like that. And Friday too - yeah - never trade that. And before news. Also after news, when you have erratic movements. Plus all those times when the market is slow. Definitely don't trade that. And avoid those times when the market looks undecided. Yeah. Or when it's moving one way, a retrace might be coming soon, don't trade that either. When to trade then? Well ... let me show you on these historical charts ...
  • #22
  • Mar 10, 2012 3:20am Mar 10, 2012 3:20am
Quoting LazyPawn
Yes, with all the indicators, windows and subwindows I need a magnifying glass to see the price on those charts. I guess the price is not that important, the system works without it.

One of the things I like most is when people start adding lines to explain why the price turned. It's not because some talking head just made an important statement or some big banks have an interest to buy a certain currency at that level. No, no ... it is because the ultra-camarilla-fibo-midpivot on the GMT+2 charts was exactly there. When people add all...
another very good post! That is the problem with a forum about trading systems. In real life everybody is an amateur trader, in the forum they are trading experts. As you have written, they don't know what real trading is about. Not every trade can be a winner, hell, with some good systems most trades are not winners. But the losers get overanalyzed in the forum to a point that any worthwhile system will be modified so much until it becomes completely useless. (I am in no way suggesting that there are worthwhile systems on this forum, you can count them on one hand).
  • #23
  • Mar 10, 2012 4:23am Mar 10, 2012 4:23am
I think that Lazypawn did not just describe the dynamics of a trading system on FF but the dynamics of all the political and economic systems in human history...
  • #24
  • Mar 10, 2012 5:30am Mar 10, 2012 5:30am
I would love to see the original post make a sticky! He has pretty much summed up each and every trading thread that has been posted here.

I always check out the new threads, but by the 5th or 6th post you realize it's the same junk regurgitated again and again.
  • #25
  • Mar 10, 2012 5:48am Mar 10, 2012 5:48am
Quoting HiddenGap
That is why it's a fallacy to say a system will go "bad" if too many people know about it. After a system is introduced to the masses, it goes thru phases 5&6.
Hello HiddenGap ,

Would you be kind enough to teach me ,,, pm me ,,, help me to learn about your system of trading forex using price action, explain how you don't use the indicators c ause i'd assume they lag ...

I want to lock in to the very best method times set ups, I need a true trader to share, Appreciate anything helpful in advance ...
  • #26
  • Mar 10, 2012 7:11am Mar 10, 2012 7:11am
Quoting LazyPawn
I became a member of the forum 7 years ago. As a beginner I spent most of the first 2 years studying various trading systems posted here, using some of them on demo accounts and (unfortunately) a few on my live account. Eventually I created two of my own which I still use with little modifications up to this day. However, the old hobby is not dead. I still test almost everything. Occasionally I find a new idea, an interesting indicator, even a good system that can be made profitable with some adjustments.

But the really fun part is to follow what...
couldn't have said it better myself....
  • #27
  • Mar 10, 2012 8:01am Mar 10, 2012 8:01am
very funny thread

i esp. like the stuff about 10 different versions of systems and the best is when u see som mechanical system with all these color indicators and after 20 pages when guys get bad results OP tells that you need discretion to trade it succesfully.

from my experience and knowledge the very best mechanical non-discretionary systems provide very small edge in most cases its like 55-60% with 1:1 RR, at least HF managers are hiring such guys with track record of 2-3+years of consistent profitability, but i belive there may be better non-discretionary systems but i ve never found them
  • #28
  • Mar 10, 2012 8:47am Mar 10, 2012 8:47am
Quoting LazyPawn
I became a member of the forum 7 years ago. As a beginner I spent most of the first 2 years studying various trading systems posted here, using some of them on demo accounts and (unfortunately) a few on my live account. Eventually I created two of my own which I still use with little modifications up to this day. However, the old hobby is not dead. I still test almost everything. Occasionally I find a new idea, an interesting indicator, even a good system that can be made profitable with some adjustments.

But the really fun part is to follow what...


What you've described happens all the time on every forum.

You left out the scam thread.

The scammer posts a set of system rules.
He reports winning trades everyday. If you aren't getting the same results, it's because you aren't using enough discretion. You're ignoring S/R, pivots, fibs etc., even though they aren't part of the rules. Any losing trades, following the rules, are explained away.

His guard dogs and gate keepers ridicule anyone who questions the system.

The scam artist states several times that if only the light bulb will come on for you, you'll never have to work again.

Soon he opens an off site trading room or maybe a Skype group. The guru offers to trade their accounts for them.


There is always, at least one thread following this path. There is one now. It hasn't gone off site yet, but it won't be long.
  • #29
  • Mar 10, 2012 9:20am Mar 10, 2012 9:20am
Quoting billbss
What you've described happens all the time on every forum.

You left out the scam thread.

The scammer posts a set of system rules.
He reports winning trades everyday. If you aren't getting the same results, it's because you aren't using enough discretion. You're ignoring S/R, pivots, fibs etc., even though they aren't part of the rules. Any losing trades, following the rules, are explained away.

His guard dogs and gate keepers ridicule anyone who questions the system.

The scam artist states several times that if only the light bulb...
have you got the link for it? i need a guru!
tradewith60
  • #30
  • Mar 10, 2012 9:37am Mar 10, 2012 9:37am
i would say you are THE legend sir
Never again will fade the trend
  • #31
  • Mar 10, 2012 9:59am Mar 10, 2012 9:59am
Quoting billbss
There is always, at least one thread following this path. There is one now. It hasn't gone off site yet, but it won't be long.
I've been watching it too and wondering if Keith went "Continental" on us.

Here's a few of the classics for anyone who doesn't know how it works.

Wayne Jackson's House of Pain
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...82#post3974282

Keith Brown's C4 Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=3005211

Keith Brown's The Dance Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...71#post3716371

Keith Brown's Scalping the EUR/USD Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...716#post208171 6

Clayton Hall's Steelhead Journal
http://steelheadfx.com/
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...75#post2539775

.
  • #32
  • Mar 10, 2012 10:03am Mar 10, 2012 10:03am
I just love this. In order to be profitable one just need "to filter out the bad trades."
  • #33
  • Mar 10, 2012 10:11am Mar 10, 2012 10:11am
Quoting billbss
You left out the scam thread.
The scammer posts a set of system rules.
He reports winning trades everyday. If you aren't getting the same results, it's because you aren't using enough discretion. You're ignoring S/R, pivots, fibs etc., even though they aren't part of the rules. Any losing trades, following the rules, are explained away.
His guard dogs and gate keepers ridicule anyone who questions the system.
You are perfectly right. I know very well what you're talking about. It works even better when the rules are not very clear, when there is a lot of discretion, or when it's using repainting indicators (so people get fooled by what they see in the past).
But there's a different angle to it as well. If someone is claiming to make at least 1000 pips each week and growing their friends' accounts by 70% each and every month ... and that doesn't raise your eyebrow ... then you deserve to lose money. Or as they say:
When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with the experience winds up with the money and the person with the money winds up with the experience.
And yeah, I've been on both sides of that.
  • #34
  • Mar 10, 2012 10:19am Mar 10, 2012 10:19am
Quoting Fx77777
I just love this. In order to be profitable one just need "to filter out the bad trades."

Or control the drawdown.
Printing money is easy, one only needs to control the drawdown.

That one had a large following. It's on it's last gasp but it's still around.
  • #35
  • Mar 10, 2012 10:36am Mar 10, 2012 10:36am
Quoting LazyPawn
You are perfectly right. I know very well what you're talking about. It works even better when the rules are not very clear, when there is a lot of discretion, or when it's using repainting indicators (so people get fooled by what they see in the past).
But there's a different angle to it as well. If someone is claiming to make at least 1000 pips each week and growing their friends' accounts by 70% each and every month ... and that doesn't raise your eyebrow ... then you deserve to lose money. Or as they say:
[b]When a person with money meets a...
Nice thread...but now you've gone too far. There are about 1000 groupies who are convinced they can do 70% a month also. There certainly needs to be an emphasis on step 2 where any negativism is swiftly dealt with by the groupies with a vengence. You see, they have already created the spreadsheets and they know what 70% per month compounded will do for their accounts. Nobody dares to interrupt their dreams of yachts and Ferraris. They will defend the dream like a crazed dog!

You've been warned!!!
  • #36
  • Mar 10, 2012 10:49am Mar 10, 2012 10:49am
Quoting Fudomyo
I've been watching it too and wondering if Keith went "Continental" on us.

Here's a few of the classics for anyone who doesn't know how it works.

Wayne Jackson's House of Pain
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...82#post3974282

Keith Brown's C4 Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=3005211

Keith Brown's The Dance Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...71#post3716371

Keith Brown's Scalping the EUR/USD Thread
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...716#post208171...

Those are classics.

Here's one of my favorites.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...ighlight=TIGER


Cornelius claimed to make 800 pips a day. He wound up demanding "charitable contributions" be sent to him so he could distribute the money to the neediest. Merlin threw him off and he formed an off-site group. I've seen his followers back on FF and never heard them mention what happened, but I can guess


TRO has opened up several threads here under false names. He's always been detected before he could suck up any money.
  • #37
  • Mar 10, 2012 11:29am Mar 10, 2012 11:29am
Quoting LazyPawn
If someone is claiming to make at least 1000 pips each week and growing their friends' accounts by 70% each and every month ... and that doesn't raise your eyebrow ... then you deserve to lose money.
Every once in a while some confused newbie will wander in and dare to post in these threads an outlandish request, like "Do you think you could post screenshots of your entries immediately after you take them, and also a screenshot of your exit, immediately after or even slightly before your exit, just to give us an idea of how you are trading this system in REAL time?"

These requests are either completely ignored(hopefully they will be buried in the avalanche of posts by the groupies) or they are met with hostility, like "I don't have to prove anything to you, you are a complete newbie and don't understand anything", or "I dont have time to be doing that, I'm too busy trading! (even though you are posting in the thread every 5 minutes and showing all the trades you have taken in "the past" lol)

In fact, I dont think I have ever seen a system thread where trades were screenshotted and posted IMMEDIATELY after taken. Why? Because people think it would be embarrassing to post a trade that turned into a loser, on a public forum, and thats what really limits these threads from turning into something actually useful and REAL.
  • #38
  • Mar 10, 2012 11:51am Mar 10, 2012 11:51am
Quoting Aldente
Every once in a while some confused newbie will wander in and dare to post in these threads an outlandish request, like "Do you think you could post screenshots of your entries immediately after you take them, and also a screenshot of your exit, immediately after or even slightly before your exit, just to give us an idea of how you are trading this system in REAL time?"

These requests are either completely ignored(hopefully they will be buried in the avalanche of posts by the groupies) or they are met with hostility, like "I don't have to prove...
The real shame is it takes about 1 second to make a screenshot and another 30 seconds or so to post it.

Quote
In fact, I dont think I have ever seen a system thread where trades were screenshotted and posted IMMEDIATELY after taken. Why? Because people think it would be embarrassing to post a trade that turned into a loser, on a public forum, and thats what really limits these threads from turning into something actually useful and REAL.

Ah yes, the fear of public failure can be very powerful.
  • #39
  • Mar 10, 2012 12:17pm Mar 10, 2012 12:17pm
Quoting Aldente
Every once in a while some confused newbie will wander in and dare to post in these threads an outlandish request, like "Do you think you could post screenshots of your entries immediately after you take them, and also a screenshot of your exit, immediately after or even slightly before your exit, just to give us an idea of how you are trading this system in REAL time?"

These requests are either completely ignored(hopefully they will be buried in the avalanche of posts by the groupies) or they are met with hostility, like "I don't have to...
peter Serbia does post his trades live when taken ...but he is actively soliciting members...I think his posts were moved to commercial section.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #40
  • Mar 10, 2012 12:38pm Mar 10, 2012 12:38pm
Quoting LazyPawn
But there's a different angle to it as well. If someone is claiming to make at least 1000 pips each week and growing their friends' accounts by 70% each and every month ... and that doesn't raise your eyebrow ... then you deserve to lose money.

You know something I just saw those exact words from an author of a very recent thread.
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