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I'm crashed today.

  • #1
  • First Post: Apr 27, 2006 11:40am Apr 27, 2006 11:40am
I thought it was going to be one of my lucky days but it's not. one of my mini accounts got crashed just now. I just can't believe what I've done and why I've done that.

I opened the trade window and saw eur/usd has been starting to go up and up and I thought it's not the good time to follow so I decide to capture the reversal like I did before and that worked most of the time. but not today. I'm just a gambler today.

I sold 5 slots at high and looking for reversal. it did. a little bit say $30 around. I was almost to take the profit and relax to be back to work. but I didn't.
now the nightmare starts, it went up/and down then went right up to north. I sold 1 more slot at higher price then sell another 1 at higher, and then another 1 then another 1. 9 slots total and the price still going up. half of my margins were blowing out. finally I got forced stopped by the dealer because lacking margin.

I read and read and read all the rules, don't over trade, cut loss when you feel uncomfortable, decpline, be alert blah blah, and I am still doing against the rules. Maybe I'm just the one who can't do trade.

anyways, I'm just too rush to get into the winners group. It's just not the time.
  • #2
  • Apr 27, 2006 12:09pm Apr 27, 2006 12:09pm
Don't feel bad. I got slaughtered today too. Fortunately I am trading a demo account but if I had a mini account I would be in the same situation as you.
69.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
  • #3
  • Apr 27, 2006 12:14pm Apr 27, 2006 12:14pm
Hey man, Hang in there I have done the same thing before, I bet most have at one time or another. You have to chalk it up to tuition cost and regroup. Everyone will say demo trade and yes you should to get your method down but nothing works as well as putting money on the line, even micro account at first.

I can't tell you how many times I have made stupid trades but you can get it under control. You can get it done. I would suggest the PF section and look under james 16 system section and look at the basic base 150 trade set ups it's a great place to start.

But first look at Figi's area and get your emotions in check. The man knows what he is talking about.

Play
  • #4
  • Apr 27, 2006 12:25pm Apr 27, 2006 12:25pm
Me too Hastings, $500 big ones and this was a micro account so I won't tell you how many pips, its just to embarrassing . Don't give up though, Think of it this way, we are feeding some of our fellow members families.
The Forex - what is it? who controls it?
  • #5
  • Apr 27, 2006 12:27pm Apr 27, 2006 12:27pm
thanks guys. I had known that one day I would be crashed by trading like gambler. I kept telling me in these days to stop doing the way I was doing trading. but just didn't think it came so soon before I read and knew better. well, l still have another mini account to go with. I wish I don't crash that one.
  • #6
  • Apr 27, 2006 12:57pm Apr 27, 2006 12:57pm
I don't feel embarrassing that way because I was gambling in shame of ignoring all technical/fundamental signals and indicators. I can list the bets if your interested in seeing it and letting me know why is it so wrong with it

sold 5 at 1.2473
sold 1 at 1.2501
sold 1 at 1.2521
sold 1 at 1.2529
sold 1 at 1.2531
closed the last 1 at 1.2541
account shutdown at 1.2563

gone

Now I am the killed possum.

Quoting Puss
Me too Hastings, $500 big ones and this was a micro account so I won't tell you how many pips, its just to embarrassing . Don't give up though, Think of it this way, we are feeding some of our fellow members families.
  • #7
  • Apr 27, 2006 1:20pm Apr 27, 2006 1:20pm
Quoting hastings
I don't feel embarrassing that way because I was gambling in shame of ignoring all technical/fundamental signals and indicators. I can list the bets if your interested in seeing it and letting me know why is it so wrong with it

sold 5 at 1.2473
sold 1 at 1.2501
sold 1 at 1.2521
sold 1 at 1.2529
sold 1 at 1.2531
closed the last 1 at 1.2541
account shutdown at 1.2563

gone

Now I am the killed possum.
I think you answered your own question. You said you sold for the drop/retrace. What was telling you that the EUR/USD was going to retrace at any given moment? An indicator? Some automated system? No, just instinct because it had worked before. But of course that in no way garuantee's that it will work again or in varying market conditions. Retrace action is one of the most dangerous practices out there.

My account grew much faster when I ignored the temptation to catch the retrace and just flat out followed my system. What works twice, may not work a third....as you have seen today.

Given the impact of Bernacke's speech, you were playing with a loaded gun....and unfortunately, it went off.

Learn from this and analyse why it's dangerous to ignore systems/indicators/fundamentals and play by the gut.

I won't offer any words of consolation, cause you don't need them.....you need to realize that what you did was dangerous and you paid the price. It's anger and dissappointment that forces us to analyse ourselves.

Please don't take this in the wrong tone, I have made the exact same mistake. I built up my account very well often practicing the same mentality, adn then in one fail swoop, gave it all back when the EUR/USD dropped to 1.1698. I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT DAY! It changed my trading life forever because it made me think of why I did that and what I should have done instead. My flaw: trading against the trend even though the trend was sitting there slapping me in the face!

I haven't played the retrace action since and my account has thanked me ever since.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #8
  • Apr 27, 2006 1:35pm Apr 27, 2006 1:35pm
Mudd, interesting words. I take it you don't think too much of the various Vegas systems then, since they seem to rely on the retrace from outer EMA band action....

Where can I learn more about your favorite systems? Thanks for any advice.

Ol' Don
Don Life is expensive, but includes a free trip around the sun.
  • #9
  • Apr 27, 2006 1:45pm Apr 27, 2006 1:45pm
Quoting traderone
Mudd, interesting words. I take it you don't think too much of the various Vegas systems then, since they seem to rely on the retrace from outer EMA band action....

Where can I learn more about your favorite systems? Thanks for any advice.

Ol' Don
Actually, I've never read any of Vegas' documents, so I can't really comment on them; but from what I understand, and from you've stated, the SYSTEM indicates retracement from channel/band extremes. That's a far cry from break out retraces and two seperate beasts all together.

Jumping on a short after a Fed. Chairman speech and a dollar sell off is pure gambling and no halfway decent system would ever indicate a short without some consideration of fundamental break-outs and the possiblity that the overall trading range may now be changing due to those fundamentals. In which case, if you didn't use stops like many don't, you may not see those levels again for weeks or months.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #10
  • Apr 27, 2006 2:00pm Apr 27, 2006 2:00pm
Quoting hastings
I thought it was going to be one of my lucky days but it's not. one of my mini accounts got crashed just now. I just can't believe what I've done and why I've done that.

I opened the trade window and saw eur/usd has been starting to go up and up and I thought it's not the good time to follow so I decide to capture the reversal like I did before and that worked most of the time. but not today. I'm just a gambler today.

I sold 5 slots at high and looking for reversal. it did. a little bit say $30 around. I was almost to take the profit and relax to be back to work. but I didn't.
now the nightmare starts, it went up/and down then went right up to north. I sold 1 more slot at higher price then sell another 1 at higher, and then another 1 then another 1. 9 slots total and the price still going up. half of my margins were blowing out. finally I got forced stopped by the dealer because lacking margin.

I read and read and read all the rules, don't over trade, cut loss when you feel uncomfortable, decpline, be alert blah blah, and I am still doing against the rules. Maybe I'm just the one who can't do trade.

anyways, I'm just too rush to get into the winners group. It's just not the time.
unfortunatly friend its part of the process for almost all of us. i spent my first 8 years of trading in the fetal position most of the time. no internet, no charts, no help. just a piece of graph paper, a pencil and ruler and the phone number to my broker. trust me you can do it. do this. no one does but that will never stop me from preaching.

1. demo until you show a profit 3 months in a row
2. then start a pocket change account with an amount of money that causes no emotions when you trade. 3 months more showing a profit before moving to the next step.
3. fund your account with half of what you intended to and do it again for 3 months. if you cant complete a step you dont move on until you can.
4. never risk more than 3 percent of your account on any one trade.
5. do all of this and find success on daily and weekly charts before even trying intraday.

this is treating it like a business and not a casino. you at least have a chance at long term success approaching things in this manner. most new traders do the exact opposite of what i described and there my friend is your 95 percent that dont last a year at this.
  • #11
  • Apr 27, 2006 2:14pm Apr 27, 2006 2:14pm
I can see the most challenge from your wise advice to me is the patiency decpline. that's my problem. I started a demo account and long 3 weeks that doubled the initial then I started a mini account by putting $1000 in it (now that was the one got screwed). I then started to loss. 2 weeks later I opened another one. why I opened two? because I thought I could do Taxan Hedge method. Now I have only one left. 3 months demo without toughing the left-over real account? omg, well, I will definately try. but man, it hurts.

Quoting james16
unfortunatly friend its part of the process for almost all of us. i spent my first 8 years of trading in the fetal position most of the time. no internet, no charts, no help. just a piece of graph paper, a pencil and ruler and the phone number to my broker. trust me you can do it. do this. no one does but that will never stop me from preaching.

1. demo until you show a profit 3 months in a row
2. then start a pocket change account with an amount of money that causes no emotions when you trade. 3 months more showing a profit before moving to the next step.
3. fund your account with half of what you intended to and do it again for 3 months. if you cant complete a step you dont move on until you can.
4. never risk more than 3 percent of your account on any one trade.
5. do all of this and find success on daily and weekly charts before even trying intraday.

this is treating it like a business and not a casino. you at least have a chance at long term success approaching things in this manner. most new traders do the exact opposite of what i described and there my friend is your 95 percent that dont last a year at this.
  • #12
  • Apr 27, 2006 2:26pm Apr 27, 2006 2:26pm
you are right. that's why I'm thinking I'm a gambler and even the worst one. can you tell me the system you invented by yourself or learned from others?



Quoting MuddBuddha
I think you answered your own question. You said you sold for the drop/retrace. What was telling you that the EUR/USD was going to retrace at any given moment? An indicator? Some automated system? No, just instinct because it had worked before. But of course that in no way garuantee's that it will work again or in varying market conditions. Retrace action is one of the most dangerous practices out there.

My account grew much faster when I ignored the temptation to catch the retrace and just flat out followed my system. What works twice, may not work a third....as you have seen today.

Given the impact of Bernacke's speech, you were playing with a loaded gun....and unfortunately, it went off.

Learn from this and analyse why it's dangerous to ignore systems/indicators/fundamentals and play by the gut.

I won't offer any words of consolation, cause you don't need them.....you need to realize that what you did was dangerous and you paid the price. It's anger and dissappointment that forces us to analyse ourselves.

Please don't take this in the wrong tone, I have made the exact same mistake. I built up my account very well often practicing the same mentality, adn then in one fail swoop, gave it all back when the EUR/USD dropped to 1.1698. I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT DAY! It changed my trading life forever because it made me think of why I did that and what I should have done instead. My flaw: trading against the trend even though the trend was sitting there slapping me in the face!

I haven't played the retrace action since and my account has thanked me ever since.
  • #13
  • Apr 27, 2006 2:45pm Apr 27, 2006 2:45pm
Actually this was a classic 4hour trade for the GBPUSD. It fit the criteria to a tee. The weekly trend is up. the 8 ma turned up early, about 8:00 ET using the Neutral line or the aphid line, as a guide I placed my buy at 1.7881. With a stop at 1.7818 I cannot agree with you about reversal. The Vwb 4 hour docs state that a trade should ONLY be made in the direction of the weekly trend... The trend was and has been up. It was a very obvious trade...

Hastings, I feel so much for your loss here. Not only have you lost some money, you have lost some confidence in your ability. The later is far more important. Money comes and goes, but your mental and physical health is all you have really. Please Do not give up. Just learn from the mistake and try to disengage yourself from the win/loose part... A trade either meets your rules and MONEY MANAGEMENT or it does not... Even with your gambling attitude on this trade you still would have been ok if you had set stops at a level that was consistent with your account size...

I suspect that the size of the stop necessary would have prevented you from taking this trade in the first place from a money management point of view...

It is not the profit you make that will allow you to succeed, it is the amount you can keep that will prove your ability.

I actually think you can make it, you have learned the most painful, but most important lesson about trading. Protect your account....

good luck and good learning... Scott


Quoting traderone
Mudd, interesting words. I take it you don't think too much of the various Vegas systems then, since they seem to rely on the retrace from outer EMA band action....

Where can I learn more about your favorite systems? Thanks for any advice.

Ol' Don
  • #14
  • Apr 27, 2006 2:54pm Apr 27, 2006 2:54pm
I think this is start to successful trading

once when Jew send his son to trade, he prayed to god to make his son to lose first time.
It is good lesson.
Personally I blew two minis, and I think that is why now I am withdrawing money from forex like from ATM
If you do not give up, and develop good systems you will become pro trader
kiss the trend
  • #15
  • Apr 27, 2006 3:08pm Apr 27, 2006 3:08pm
one more advice I can give you, go join James16 group they will teach you how to take care your accounts.

Lol I am not member of the group yet, but I feel it, yeah I feel the smell of success coming from there
kiss the trend
  • #16
  • Apr 27, 2006 3:17pm Apr 27, 2006 3:17pm
thanks for all the wise advise and encouragement. I start feeling a little pumped.

Just want to reveal more of this lost account, there was $920 left before today, and when it lost $630, I see there still $290 left, the mini account margin should be 250 and the minimum request is also $250, I don't get it why the dealer took all $290 away after a few minutes. I thought I could still play with it? any body can give a hint?
  • #17
  • Apr 27, 2006 3:24pm Apr 27, 2006 3:24pm
Quoting hastings
thanks for all the wise advise and encouragement. I start feeling a little pumped.

Just want to reveal more of this lost account, there was $920 left before today, and when it lost $630, I see there still $290 left, the mini account margin should be 250 and the minimum request is also $250, I don't get it why the dealer took all $290 away after a few minutes. I thought I could still play with it? any body can give a hint?
No withdraw it or leave it unchanged

or reduce lot size to meet money management rules, I mean not to use high leverage that is not allowed.

DO NOT ADD MONEY TO LOSING ACCOUNT!!!
that is number 1 rule for you acc.
kiss the trend
  • #18
  • Apr 27, 2006 3:24pm Apr 27, 2006 3:24pm
Well, I lost some money in my demo account today too. So like some of the comments here suggest I took a look at my strategy and what went wrong. I agree with smjones. The trend is up. It has been for a while now. I have been placing long positions left and right now for some time and it's been working.

(All the times to follow are MST and are based on a H1 chart)

So what went wrong. I have been trading a simple MA strategy with a 9 bar, 14 bar and 29 bar cross. And it has been working. Sure, it's reactive and a little behind but I would rather be behind the curve than infront of a wrong curve.
On the 26th at 10:00 the market peaked and started back down. I thought it was just a retracement and stayed with it. Sure enough, it came back up and peaked again near the same price at 19:00 and started back down. I read it as a double top and bailed out with profit. I watched my lines grow closer together but and waited for the cross. Then here's my mistake. I did not wait for a solid cross before entering again. I should have waited for a solid cross before exiting actually. If I had done that I would be in the green today. Instead, I was watching my lines move together and wanted to get ahead of the game a little. I looked at the double top with MA's moving together and I pulled the trigger for a short. And lost some, not all, but some.

That's the overview of my strategy and what went wrong.

What did I learn today? Pick a strategy that works and stay with it to the end.
69.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
  • #19
  • Apr 27, 2006 3:40pm Apr 27, 2006 3:40pm
1 more story:

ok - last year, started with $500, went up to $1200 in 3 weeks, and THEN....

.....did EXACTLY what you did! Actually, started with 3 lots, went up to 6, and then had the giggest drop/gain in currencies during the ASIAN session!

(Oh, I entered all trades w/o knowing charts.)

Margined out in a few hours left with $300.00.

Went crazy with the last 300 or so putting in trades here and there. Went up to 500 again only to blow it all again!!

So I went back to demoing for the past 10 months.
  • #20
  • Edited 3:50pm Apr 27, 2006 3:43pm | Edited 3:50pm
Hastings,
I know it may seem frivolous at this point, but since there is a discussion presently going on in the members lounge re NHL Playoffs, it may just be appropriate.

Firstly and before we get there, Look forward to the days when a $1,000.00 drop in equity results in a "That pis-es me off" type of reaction. Because if you stick it out long enough to do more studying {TA, FA and ME eh}, they will come.

Secondly, NEVER try to take revenge on the Market. You will lose. Period. End. Finito.

And Last, but certainly not least. The tough lessons are the ones that teach the most. You have just learned the toughest. The Game will continue with or without you. Your immediate job now is to make sure you understand Why & How you made your mistake. Then {as Accrete might say} put it in your quiver.

Back to the NHL.
How many times has a spectator/fan said
"Our guys are better than that. Why don't they just play like the know how to. It would make it so much easier to beat those other guys."

Much Much easier said than done, but this also is accomplished by small victories. {one good hit, one good save, one good...} Then the confidence starts to exude and the tide starts to turn. Then it's a case of maintaining disciplin.

James' suggestions {I believe} are purely from his heart and possibly with personal knowledge of your current predicament.
His suggestions may seem like "Shi_, that will take me forever. I want money now."
He's only asking you to take 1 year and basically "Serve your Apprenticeship" Compare that to the length of time it takes to pass finals on ANY other Profession.
Ahh.... Therin lies the rub. FX is quick money. Quick In AND Quick Out. Is that worth studying for a year before you throw your future {family included} on the line?

Hang In There Hastings
And
Hang Out Here.
Best fast response support group going.

[Hi. My name is Bill and I Trade Forex.]

$0.02 CAD
ps. Both Hastings Canada and Hastings NZ are named after
Hastings England. The site where King Harold was killed by by an arrow to the eye in the year of 1066.
hmm.. more arrow stuff...
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