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Tobin Tax Effect on Forex

  • #81
  • Jan 15, 2012 5:45am Jan 15, 2012 5:45am
Quoting torkay77
"Eine Steuererklärung mit Angaben zu den besteuerten Finanztransaktionen soll dagegen erst bis zum Zehnten...
Not sure but I think it's only applyed to people who does not make electronical transactions. At least I hope so.
  • #82
  • Jan 17, 2012 8:22am Jan 17, 2012 8:22am
As i am also german i am concerned about this topic. So I did some research about it.

You find the first draft of the Financal Transaction Tax here

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...r/index_en.htm (english)

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...r/index_de.htm (german)

In the presentation you can find on page 9:
Quote
out of scope:
...
Spot currency transactions (as opposed to currency derivatives)
....
Therefore at least in the draft of the EU, forex seems to be excluded.
But anyways, the planned FTT for derivates is 0,01%.

Correct me if iam wrong, but when you trade 1 Lot(100.000$) * 0,01% its 10$ equal to 1 Pip. If you are not a hardcore scalper i dont think its an issue.
  • #83
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:44am Jan 17, 2012 9:44am
Quoting h96
Correct me if iam wrong, but when you trade 1 Lot(100.000$) * 0,01% its 10$ equal to 1 Pip. If you are not a hardcore scalper i dont think its an issue.
yeah but you have to consider a round turn that would be 2x10$

in the latest FAZ article the author said the EU proposed to exclude private people but did not find proof of that
  • #84
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:51am Jan 17, 2012 9:51am
Vote people vote, but vote them out & new ones in that want do the same thing again. Its that simple.
  • #85
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:53am Jan 17, 2012 9:53am
Quoting h96
As i am also german i am concerned about this topic. So I did some research about it.

You find the first draft of the Financal Transaction Tax here

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...r/index_en.htm (english)

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...r/index_de.htm (german)

In the presentation you can find on page 9:
Therefore...
Yes but you have to pay it per half turn. A trade (round turn) will cost you $20. If you have a win/loss-ration of 50% every winning trade is facing $40 of additional charge.
  • #86
  • Jan 17, 2012 10:17am Jan 17, 2012 10:17am
Afaik, the UK alreay has a tax on certain financial transactions which has effectively killed short term stock trading.

I'm referring to the SDRT:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ts/DG_10013514

Only through the backdoor of CFD and futures trading is it possible to day trade in the UK, with the drawback that traders are dependant on trading with bucket shops (with regard to CFDs) with all the known problems.

Imho, the transaction tax will kill the average short term fx trader, should it become applicable to FX, no matter how "low" the tax will be.
  • #87
  • Jan 17, 2012 10:32am Jan 17, 2012 10:32am
in denmark they have an financial activity tax (FAT) for many years now..it seems to work not too bad for them..why nobody talks about that anymore? i am sure most politicians don't know what's the difference either
  • #88
  • Jan 21, 2012 5:25am Jan 21, 2012 5:25am
Imho, the transaction tax will kill the average short term fx trader, should it become applicable to FX, no matter how "low" the tax will be.[/quote]

I agree, because the broker will have heavy costs on the intrabank transactions to keep up the game going for their clients...I´m not an expert, but obviously they will pass those expenses to you know who...
  • #89
  • Jan 22, 2012 11:06am Jan 22, 2012 11:06am
"The proposal is expected to come into effect from 1st January 2014."

taken from

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...summary_en.pdf

;D

So I guess we will have almost 2 years to

- take profits and book flights leaving Jan 1st, 2014, to be on vacation for the lifetime of the Tobin Tax.

- find ways and means around the tax.

- hope for changes made in the proposal regarding retail forex and OTC stuff.

- learn long-term systems. I don't mind paying 0.01% or 0.1% or whatever on a 1500-pip position.

And that's only in case they keep the timeframe of the proposal (and betting on a delay is probably safer than forex trading ).
  • #90
  • Jan 24, 2012 7:24am Jan 24, 2012 7:24am
http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/...r/6101336.html (german only)

france seems to prefer bourse tax now
  • #91
  • Jan 24, 2012 8:07am Jan 24, 2012 8:07am
)

france seems to prefer bourse tax now [/quote]

Yeah, but Merkel insists now on the full ticket (maybe without Forex?, it´s all unclear now).
Besides that, I read an article from a Manager for Currency Trading of one of the big german banks saying they calculated the tax would increase the costs of transactions by 18 times!!!
20 Pips for the EURUSD??!!, try to scalp with that spread...

It´s all back and forth, "something" is coming for sure though.
  • #92
  • Jan 24, 2012 8:15am Jan 24, 2012 8:15am
Tobin tax mainly target "high-frequency" trading, that's the funds using computerized algorithms to place thousands or even millions trades per day.

We retail traders should be affected to a lesser degree. The tobin tax wont charge more than the existing capital gain tax.
  • #93
  • Jan 24, 2012 8:16am Jan 24, 2012 8:16am
Quoting cuchuflito
)

france seems to prefer bourse tax now
Yeah, but Merkel insists now on the full ticket (maybe without Forex?, it´s all unclear now).
Besides that, I read an article from a Manager for Currency Trading of one of the big german banks saying they calculated the tax would increase the costs of transactions by 18 times!!!
20 Pips for the EURUSD??!!, try to scalp with that spread...

It´s all back and forth, "something" is coming for sure though.[/quote]

When they copy the english stamp duty tax than forex- and futuretrading will be tax free.
  • #94
  • Jan 24, 2012 12:10pm Jan 24, 2012 12:10pm
When they copy the english stamp duty tax than forex- and futuretrading will be tax free.[/quote]

You sure give me hope brother, I´m profitable, consistently , after literally 15 years and a million charts and books...and now ...?
  • #95
  • Jan 27, 2012 4:00pm Jan 27, 2012 4:00pm
Quoting cuchuflito
When they copy the english stamp duty tax than forex- and futuretrading will be tax free.
Have you read Cameron bashing Tobin Tax at Davos as "madness" with the risk of loosing 200 billion and half a million jobs...wonder if the "others" were listening...or taking notes...probably too drunk from the parties and first class dinners...
  • #96
  • Jan 28, 2012 3:27am Jan 28, 2012 3:27am
Quoting cuchuflito
Have you read Cameron bashing Tobin Tax at Davos as "madness" with the risk of loosing 200 billion and half a million jobs...wonder if the "others" were listening...or taking notes...probably too drunk from the parties and first class dinners...
yes but ....

http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/inve...tive-tobin-tax
  • #97
  • Jan 28, 2012 7:53am Jan 28, 2012 7:53am
Quoting Nex
yes but ....

http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/inve...tive-tobin-tax
Cool, so maybe if they only go for stocks, then Forex might survive...guess next week is crucial, when all these idiots meet...
I mean, they are the biggest credit adicts as a whole, with debts that won´t fit in a claculator, and still they want to make people believe the markets are the bad boys, and they are going to protect us from them and the banks...
They don´t cheat me , it´s all about relections, starting with Sarko in april...
  • #98
  • Jan 29, 2012 1:36am Jan 29, 2012 1:36am
Quoting cuchuflito
Cool, so maybe if they only go for stocks, then Forex might survive...guess next week is crucial, when all these idiots meet...
I mean, they are the biggest credit adicts as a whole, with debts that won´t fit in a claculator, and still they want to make people believe the markets are the bad boys, and they are going to protect us from them and the banks...
They don´t cheat me , it´s all about relections, starting with Sarko in april...
in Italy there was an interview to the politicians who voted in favor of the Tobin tax, asking if they knew what it was .. best answer "Tobin tax = bad political behavior" and "tobin tax = fair tax" .. i'm ashamed to be italian...
  • #99
  • Jan 29, 2012 3:04pm Jan 29, 2012 3:04pm
Looks like it's official: France willl tax transactions with 0.1% starting in August this year.

Here's the link for all the German-speakers, I'm sorry, I didn't find anything in english on this yet.

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2012-0...er-einfuehrung

Also, it doesn't say wether retail forex is affected or not.
  • #100
  • Jan 29, 2012 3:23pm Jan 29, 2012 3:23pm
Taxe sur les transactions financières
Il a annoncé une mesure pour "le mois d'août" : une taxe de 0,1 % sur les transactions financières pour les "entreprises cotées en France". Les CDS ("credit default swap") seront également taxés, ainsi que "les achats spéculatifs par ordinateur", a ajouté le président de la République, sans plus de précision.

Son produit pour l'Etat est attendu à un milliard d'euros en année pleine, ce qui permettra de réduire le déficit, a-t-il précisé. M. Sarkozy a présenté cette mesure comme "un dispositif qui permet d'éviter les délocalisations puisque toute entreprise cotée en France, même si on l'achète à New York, paiera" cette taxe.

"Ce que nous voulons c'est provoquer un choc, montrer l'exemple", a expliqué le chef de l'Etat, assurant qu'"il est évident qu'à la minute où l'Europe se sera dotée d'une taxe nous rejoindrons le groupe européen".

http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presi...ens_id=1588921

here it says this tax would affect only "companies based in France"...no words about private people
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