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B.S. Trading with Kenneth Lee

  • #2,081
  • Jan 17, 2012 6:11am Jan 17, 2012 6:11am
EUR/JPY ...lets see

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EDIT: mhhh, ugly hit my SL
  • #2,082
  • Jan 17, 2012 7:07am Jan 17, 2012 7:07am
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EU short Entry on the 1H...Was stopped out..Next level is the 4H

Thought the 1H was a good level. This is were I have some trouble with levels on diferent time frames. Which one to take...?

Any thoughts?


Will post the 4H next post


From Bullzeye
" Remember to watch how price approaches these areas and the price action that develops in the approach.."...looking at the 1H set up it looks like it was setting up a new area on the 1H. So the approach was not the good given this statement. mm?

TSD
  • #2,083
  • Jan 17, 2012 7:09am Jan 17, 2012 7:09am
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Here is my 4H chart...

TSD
  • #2,084
  • Edited 9:36am Jan 17, 2012 7:39am | Edited 9:36am
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Set up long on the 4H.. Do see a stall area around 30M area.

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Here is the 30M .. The 1H has about the same zone.

So again my trouble is what area to pick regarding time frames..

Any thoughts

thanks'

TSD
  • #2,085
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:10am Jan 17, 2012 9:10am
Quoting bullzeye
EUR/JPY ...lets see

Attachment

EDIT: mhhh, ugly hit my SL
lovely, hit my SL and goes the right way to my target , thats forex

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  • #2,086
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:46am Jan 17, 2012 9:46am
Quoting TraderinSD
Attachment

EU short Entry on the 1H...Was stopped out..Next level is the 4H

Thought the 1H was a good level. This is were I have some trouble with levels on diferent time frames. Which one to take...?

Any thoughts?


Will post the 4H next post


From Bullzeye
" Remember to watch how price approaches these areas and the price action that develops in the approach.."...looking at the 1H set up it looks like it was setting up a new area on the 1H. So the approach was not the good given this statement. mm?

TSD
Commenting on my own trade....


We see that this trade did eventually move short to my target area..at another location so I cannot put up another chart. Going back over the trade and structure of the zone. Could it be that I got in to early.. Drawing the zone should I place my SELL at the upper area of the zone. As we draw the zone with the (highest high of the area for shorts ) ( lowest low of the area for longs ) Per the example given at the begining of the thread.. This would have definitely had me still in the trade..My stop would have been less for sure...This makes sense at this point...
Am I correct?

Any thoughts

Thanks

TSD
  • #2,087
  • Jan 17, 2012 11:02am Jan 17, 2012 11:02am
On chart 1 you can see that there is a line that price has been respecting. Often times you'll find whenever price blows through your zone and then turns back and goes in the direction you thought it would, you'll find one of these bad boys around.

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In this case you can look for a zone above your zone that encompasses that line or just adjust your zone to include it. But you must remember that you want to keep your targets atleast 2:1. If you widen your stop without adjusting your entry then you are effective cutting down on your profit.

I show you how i would have adjusted my zone in this trade. I set the stop above the "Price respects line: 2" from the first chart. Then i check to see where can i place my entry and still keep that target at atleast 2:1. If price never hits my entry i'm fine with it because i've analyzed that chart such that i'm finding the highest probability trade available. I don't feel the need to always be in a trade, but if i am in a trade i want it to be the best trade yet.

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Hope this helps.
  • #2,088
  • Jan 17, 2012 11:08am Jan 17, 2012 11:08am
Lucky me, my SL was bigger, but only demo
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  • #2,089
  • Jan 17, 2012 11:13am Jan 17, 2012 11:13am
Quoting Good Lookin
I wanted to reply sooner but time would not allow, anyway...

I only take zones on smaller time frames (anything less than 1h for me) if there's some heavy ranging or if it will help me get a better RR from tightening up a larger zone. That being said lets take a look at these zones.


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Remember to watch how price approaches these areas and the price action that develops in the approach..

Hi GL..

Your quote " Anything worth noting? " .. Yes.... I think the light is starting to come on.

Let me recap to see if I understand clearly

1) Looking left we see areas were price has stalled / rejected previously. ( the dotted blue lines ) This helps confirm our current fresh levels ( e.g. Zones 1,2, and 3 )
a) So if we follow this logic, areas that may appear to be a current zones may not be a the best zone if there has been no previous price rejection looking left ? For me this adds a great deal of clarity to determining good quality zones to trade from.

2) Taking trades.. Placing the PO at or near the uppr part of a zone for shorts and the lower part of the zone for longs.. correct?

3) Zone structure.. For a shorts.. The bottom of the zone would be drawn from the lowest "open or close" of the area preceeding the strong move away from this area short. The top of the zone would be the highest high contained within the zone....Zones 1 and 2 on your charts would be good examples of this.

Thanks in advance for your help..

TSD
  • #2,090
  • Jan 17, 2012 11:28am Jan 17, 2012 11:28am
Quoting Good Lookin
On chart 1 you can see that there is a line that price has been respecting. Often times you'll find whenever price blows through your zone and then turns back and goes in the direction you thought it would, you'll find one of these bad boys around.

Attachment

In this case you can look for a zone above your zone that encompasses that line or just adjust your zone to include it. But you must remember that you want to keep your targets atleast 2:1. If you widen your stop without adjusting your entry then you are effective cutting...
Straight lines are powerful tools

worth zooming down to see a level and try and get a low risk entry. near them .
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,091
  • Jan 17, 2012 11:34am Jan 17, 2012 11:34am
Quoting Good Lookin
On chart 1 you can see that there is a line that price has been respecting. Often times you'll find whenever price blows through your zone and then turns back and goes in the direction you thought it would, you'll find one of these bad boys around.

Attachment

In this case you can look for a zone above your zone that encompasses that line or just adjust your zone to include it. But you must remember that you want to keep your targets atleast 2:1. If you widen your stop without adjusting your entry then you are effective cutting...
Yes this does... thanks

I currently trade a style of support / resistance..I understand the difference vs. supply and demand levels. What has drawn to this method is it's definition of areas to trade from, defining direction, etc. I too look left with regards to S/R.. Your addition of this w/ S/D really helps me to see the zone clearer.

Thanks for your input.. Most appreciated !!

TSD
  • #2,092
  • Jan 17, 2012 12:06pm Jan 17, 2012 12:06pm
Quoting Good Lookin

Hope this helps.
Hi friends, I've been struggling with the S/D trading for some time. Been also watching this thread with great interest - it's amazing, thanks Ken for opening it and dealing with us with such care!

Good Lookin: thanks for your input: so you basically suggest to find a PPZ (James16 term for a line having been respected several times in the past) and then find a level in its vicinity? Does it mean that you do not take levels that are not close to a PPZ?

Also, you advise to watch PA approaching levels, can you please provide more information about what you watch for?

Thank you very much!

Les_Paul
  • #2,093
  • Edited 2:39pm Jan 17, 2012 1:38pm | Edited 2:39pm
Quoting Les_Paul
Hi friends, I've been struggling with the S/D trading for some time. Been also watching this thread with great interest - it's amazing, thanks Ken for opening it and dealing with us with such care!

Good Lookin: thanks for your input: so you basically suggest to find a PPZ (James16 term for a line having been respected several times in the past) and then find a level in its vicinity? Does it mean that you do not take levels that are not close to a PPZ?

Also, you advise to watch PA approaching levels, can you please provide more information about...
Yes i do mean PPZ's (price pivot zone) as described by the J16 thread. But your zone doesn't always have to have a PPZ involved. I will look for a base first and then take a look to see if there are any areas of interest around it. As long as you follow the odds enhancers you will find great places to place your PO's.

Do what Bootsy did. Load up a couple years of data on a chart. Go to the 1h or 4h timeframe and scroll through it. You will see places where price looks like it suddenly launched or dropped and when price returns to the same area it get pushed back in the direction of the initial move only to slow down at another base.


When i speak of PA i do not mean Pin Bars or double highs/lows or Bullish/Bearish Outside/Inside Bars. Those are great indicators in there own style of trading but for Supply and Demand trading i speak of PA differently. PA for me in Supply and Demand is simply how fast or slow is price approaching my base.

For example:
I find a supply whose bottom (entry) is 1.1170 and top (stop) is 1.1190 and price drops down to 1.1102 then returns to my base later.

Good price action would be if price returns to my level quickly without stopping. Reason being is 2 fold. 1 clears all the orders on the way up and 2 doesn't give people much time or perceptually safe places for entry against the move when price comes back down.

Bad price action is on the way back to my supply price bases a couple of times on the way back making new demand levels on the way up or it slowly makes its way back after a while. If there's a demand level created on the way back to your supply and it's too close then your target becomes smaller and it may not be worth it to take the trade. If it moves slowly then there's a good chance that price will just base some more when it hits the level or push through it.

So in all S&D PA for me is where is price going and at what speed is it getting there.
  • #2,094
  • Jan 17, 2012 3:00pm Jan 17, 2012 3:00pm
Quoting Good Lookin
Yes i do mean PPZ's (price pivot zone) as described by the J16 thread. But your zone doesn't always have to have a PPZ involved. I will look for a base first and then take a look to see if there are any areas of interest around it. As long as you follow the odds enhancers you will find great places to place your PO's.

Do what Bootsy did. Load up a couple years of data on a chart. Go to the 1h or 4h timeframe and scroll through it. You will see places where price looks like it suddenly launched or dropped and when price returns to the same area...

Hi GL..

The statements " Good price action would be if price returns to my level quickly without stopping. Reason being is 2 fold. 1 clears all the orders on the way up and 2 doesn't give people much time or perceptually safe places for entry when price comes back down.

Bad price action is on the way back to my supply price bases a couple of times on the way back making new demand levels on the way up or it slowly makes its way back after a while. If there's a demand level created on the way back to your supply and it's too close then your target becomes smaller and it may not be worth it to take the trade. If it moves slowly then there's a good chance that price will just base some more when it hits the level or push through it.

So in all S&D PA for me is where is price going and at what speed is it getting there "

First: This was what I was looking for. An explanation clear and concise regarding what price should look like, what it's doing, on its way back into a level that has been picked out.

Second: What price should not be doing on the way back into an area that has been picked out.


………I've learned two very important parts to the puzzle today ……….

1) An additional tool in which to identify Supply and Demand Zone by looking left. Looking for areas were price has been rejected (the dotted blue lines) prior to our Fresh Zone (I believe there needs to be a distinction between... Price prior to the Fresh Zone and Price revisiting when taking the trade after the Zone has been touched)

2) How price should and should not act when approaching our intended zone for our trade entry

Many thanks GL !!


TSD
  • #2,095
  • Jan 17, 2012 3:20pm Jan 17, 2012 3:20pm
Quoting Good Lookin
Yes i do mean PPZ's (price pivot zone) as described by the J16 thread. But your zone doesn't always have to have a PPZ involved. I will look for a base first and then take a look to see if there are any areas of interest around it. As long as you follow the odds enhancers you will find great places to place your PO's.

Do what Bootsy did. Load up a couple years of data on a chart. Go to the 1h or 4h timeframe and scroll through it. You will see places where price looks like it suddenly launched or dropped and when price returns to the same area...
GL, thank you very much for this great explanation!

LP
  • #2,096
  • Jan 17, 2012 3:26pm Jan 17, 2012 3:26pm
I'm finding H4 far more reliable with this method, EURUSD just missed my entry.

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  • #2,097
  • Jan 17, 2012 4:20pm Jan 17, 2012 4:20pm
Also missed my entry by 1 or 2 pips.....

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  • #2,098
  • Jan 17, 2012 8:36pm Jan 17, 2012 8:36pm
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PO for a Long on the UC


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1H view of some price test areas marked..Light blue line just under the PO.. Market trading in a range..Should see a bounce here..Will see

TSD
  • #2,099
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:14pm Jan 17, 2012 9:14pm
Hi Kenneth, great thread. I'm beginning to learn about S & D and this thread is really helpful. There is a lot of info here on FF about S & D and it's pretty overwhelming to begin with, knowing what to digest and what to ignore.

Would you say there are any significant differences between the way that you trade and the way that the guys over at the PIE thread and Romancing the Price thread are trading?

From a beginners perspective at S & D, it seems like your method is a bit more clear cut and rules based (odds enchancers) while the PIE method is a bit more subjective. Would this be right? Once again, terriffic thread.
  • #2,100
  • Jan 17, 2012 9:32pm Jan 17, 2012 9:32pm
Quoting forexben
Hi Kenneth, great thread. I'm beginning to learn about S & D and this thread is really helpful. There is a lot of info here on FF about S & D and it's pretty overwhelming to begin with, knowing what to digest and what to ignore.

Would you say there are any significant differences between the way that you trade and the way that the guys over at the PIE thread and Romancing the Price thread are trading?

From a beginners perspective at S & D, it seems like your method is a bit more clear cut and rules based (odds enchancers) while the PIE method...
To give you a perspective....I watch those threads as well. As a matter of fact since they were started. They also are based on Sam Seiden method. Kens thread is full of instruction that is easily found. The others can be over whelming with their size, but I tell you there are some fantastic traders over there.
Illegitimi non carborundum - Noli pati a scelestis opprimi.
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