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How Not To Go Broke in Forex

  • #21
  • Dec 29, 2011 3:33pm Dec 29, 2011 3:33pm
Quoting pipmutt
Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't, maybe he doesn't want to, that's why I said it's all relative and depends on what else he could/would be doing with his time. Whatever his situation we can't expect him to be a capitalist just because we think he should be.

For all we know he may be a burned out retail forex trader, an eccentric billionaire, and is just enjoying his stress-free 8 hours collecting cans for a buck a day!
sure, but the dumpster diver doesn't try to suggest they are knowledgeable about making money and that this is "how money is made".

my feet are tired, so i'm stepping off the dance floor.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #22
  • Dec 29, 2011 3:47pm Dec 29, 2011 3:47pm
Funny how people notice what they actually want to notice. I guess it depends on whether your glass is half full or half empty .. Poor Steve, see what the rat race did to him, his glass must be totally empty.

Quoting nubcake
the very first comment (at this time)...
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #23
  • Dec 29, 2011 3:52pm Dec 29, 2011 3:52pm
Quoting spekitox
Funny how people notice what they actually want to notice. I guess it depends on whether your glass is half full or half empty .. Poor Steve, see what the rat race did to him, his glass must be totally empty.
what was i supposed to notice then? what i saw was a story about a guy who appeared to be living to his means, not below his means. it's all fine and good until something happens causing him to no longer be able to fish... like losing his boat, or the fish being trawled to extinction, or a shift in climate, or a hurricane destroying his home and property.

what was the moral or whatever that my half-empty glass was unable to appreciate?

i see people at weekend markets peddling their wares etc. if that's all they do, despite loving it (or not), then i can't imagine they have any type of financial safety. without financial safety you don't have anything.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #24
  • Dec 29, 2011 4:15pm Dec 29, 2011 4:15pm
Quoting nubcake

i see people at weekend markets peddling their wares etc. if that's all they do, despite loving it (or not), then i can't imagine they have any type of financial safety. without financial safety you don't have anything.
The weekend market peddler and the soda can collector might have more financial stability and security than the business owner or forex trader, even more likely in the current climate!

Depending on which country you live in you can actually have financial security without ever having to do a day's work! Guaranteed housing, health care, an income, and a pension...all for doing sweet FA!

Anyway we seem to have gone way off the topic.......
  • #25
  • Dec 29, 2011 5:27pm Dec 29, 2011 5:27pm
Quoting pipmutt
Depending on which country you live in you can actually have financial security without ever having to do a day's work! Guaranteed housing, health care, an income, and a pension...all for doing sweet FA!
and where would this be?

and yes, off-topic. probably because you are trying to suggest that the most unlikely situation of someone picking cans or peddling wares is somehow in a position to be envied. there will always be a situation where the stars align and some set of circumstances is magically better for someone, but for the majority being a bum isn't something to aspire to being, despite there absolutely being at least one bum in the world who is better off being a bum than the millionaire boss of some corp due to some unique circumstance in his existence making a bums life more favorable.

you won't get too many bums go around saying how great their life is and this is how all people should live to be 'successful'.

you don't make money trading pennies and letting them sit in drawdown for long periods of time only to cash in a few pips once it gets in the black finally. you don't catch a few fish them bum around the rest of the day each day if you want to have some financial security now and later in life. you don't be a bum diving for cans or peddling junk and proclaim to the world you have 'made it' and this is the life to lead. it just does not happen.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #26
  • Dec 29, 2011 5:34pm Dec 29, 2011 5:34pm
The moral of the story, at least on my end of the telescope... money and owning stuff is not a prerequisite of happiness. Quite the contrary, being happy is a prerequisite of producing any wealth.

I don't like to worry that much, nubs. Hurricane, extinction, nuclear blast, whatever. If I can work harder than others and add more value than others then I'll have financial safety. That's how it worked so far. And it's gonna work until the dolphins fly.

Money ... is it the foundation of our lives, really? I burnt it /accidentally/, I blew my nose in it /deliberately/, I haven't wiped my ass with it yet, but I might give it a try. I have some worthless notes from a 3rd world country, they're softer than toilet paper.

Quoting nubcake
what was i supposed to notice then? what i saw was a story about a guy who appeared to be living to his means, not below his means. it's all fine and good until something happens causing him to no longer be able to fish... like losing his boat, or the fish being trawled to extinction, or a shift in climate, or a hurricane destroying his home and property.

what was the moral or whatever that my half-empty glass was unable to appreciate?

i see people at weekend markets peddling their wares etc. if that's all they do, despite loving it (or not),...
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #27
  • Dec 29, 2011 5:40pm Dec 29, 2011 5:40pm
Quoting spekitox
The moral of the story, at least on my end of the telescope... money and owning stuff is not a prerequisite of happiness. Quite the contrary, being happy is a prerequisite of producing any wealth.
maybe money doesn't make one happy now. but having money when they need it sure is going to save a lot of tears down the road if needed and perhaps prevent everything going bye-bye that a person needs and/or values.

a care-free attitude and lifestyle is bitchin', until shit hits the fan and it all goes belly-up. that's like trading without a stop and winning winning winning then imploding.

that's doing a charlie sheen.

Quote
Money ... is it the foundation of our lives, really? I burnt it /accidentally/, I blew my nose in it /deliberately/, I haven't wiped my ass with it yet, but I might give it a try. I have some worthless notes from a 3rd world country, they're softer than toilet paper.

good luck trying to get anywhere, buy anything..... live.... in this world without money. if you want to go live in the woods and hunt deer and grubs then power to you, otherwise you are shit out of luck and need some of that sweet sweet currency to exist with everyone else. true story.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #28
  • Dec 29, 2011 6:05pm Dec 29, 2011 6:05pm
Umgawa. Tarzan thank white man for advice. Tarzan go find survival guide on Youtube now.

Quoting nubcake
maybe money doesn't make one happy now. but having money when they need it sure is going to save a lot of tears down the road if needed and perhaps prevent everything going bye-bye that a person needs and/or values.

a care-free attitude and lifestyle is bitchin', until shit hits the fan and it all goes belly-up. that's like trading without a stop and winning winning winning then imploding.

that's doing a charlie sheen.



good luck trying to get anywhere, buy anything..... live.... in this world without money. if you want to go live in the...
forget about tomorrow, just steal away into the night
  • #29
  • Dec 29, 2011 6:13pm Dec 29, 2011 6:13pm
Quoting nubcake

and where would this be?
The UK, didn't you know we're the benefit capital of the world, free money for all who want it, all you've got to do is turn up and ask!

Quoting nubcake
and yes, off-topic. probably because you are trying to suggest that the most unlikely situation of someone picking cans or peddling wares is somehow in a position to be envied.
lol, when did I say that? But now you come to mention it maybe they are, there's always someone worse off financially, physically, or mentally. Take your millionaire boss of some corp, stressed, domestic issues, perhaps on the verge of being exposed for some misdeed, heck we've seen plenty of those recently! Would I rather be a bum collecting cans than let's say a Bernie Madoff? You bet!


Quoting nubcake

you don't make money trading pennies and letting them sit in drawdown for long periods of time only to cash in a few pips once it gets in the black finally.
Well I don't myself but it certainly seems like someone is doing just that (not sure about the 'few pips' though, I don't think he said). I bet he'd be envied by the alleged 90% who lose everything within 6 months though!

Quoting nubcake

you don't be a bum diving for cans or peddling junk and proclaim to the world you have 'made it' and this is the life to lead. it just does not happen.
lol, there are whole communities around the world who have chosen to 'opt out' of the rat race and they live quite happily as far as I can tell without all the glitter. What gives anyone the right to try and impose their ideals on anyone else, we've all got only one life and we should be allowed to live it as we wish so long as we're not hurting anyone else. You know what they say about money, it's the root of all evil!
  • #30
  • Edited 8:41pm Dec 29, 2011 8:29pm | Edited 8:41pm
how not to go broke?
do not be aggressive
avoid impatience


Quoting pipmutt
lol
-
are u back for good, Sir?

Quoting pipmutt
...You know what they say about money, it's the root of all evil!
who said that?

no.
(mis-)use of money is the root of all evil.


Happy new year all!
  • #31
  • Edited 9:02pm Dec 29, 2011 8:42pm | Edited 9:02pm
Quoting sniperfxmy
winning 4 trades out of 10 in a risk:reward ratio of 1:2 will lead ones to wealthy in their long term trading career... I believe it!
Cheers
I found this to be possible and accurate. I have won only 37% of the last 900 odd trades I did which is a little less than 4 out of 10 and my winners are just a little over 2x my losers. I have doubled my account in 3.5 months.

I do believe other risk/reward and win/loss ratio models are also possible but this one I have personally experienced
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BTC Return This Year: na
  • #32
  • Dec 29, 2011 8:47pm Dec 29, 2011 8:47pm
Sir M.A.C.Doug,
interesting.. Thanks for sharing!
  • #33
  • Dec 29, 2011 9:56pm Dec 29, 2011 9:56pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Nbob, we have discussed this plenty of times before. I hope in our previous discussions that I didn't come off as confrontational with you or you're trading style. Any discussion I have on the no stop loss topic is merely to point out where I saw flaws in that type of trading and also to give constructive criticisms or advice. So here we go again ...

As I have said before, in a no stop loss method you have to enter incredibly small. As you mentioned you trade 1 penny for each 500 dollars. Why would you risk having a trade go into severe drawdown...
Again I do it because it works, that is my edge, it works. Since our last discussion my account is now up 50% since August and continues to go up. My win percentage is above 80% and I am meeting my goals of averaging 10% on my account every month. My live account is my proof and it is not a lie and I have been doing this for years. The difference is my win ratio is higher than 2 years ago, I was closer to 70%. That is called increasing your trading skill. 10% compounding every month is working in my favor. You assume it cant work therefore you keep drawing the same wrong conclusions. Your assumptions block out the possibility that people can trade using a system not approved by you. But it does and the math does not lie. But we have been around this block before.

The truth is in the results not argument.

Anyway I stand by the author's point that traders trade way too high lot size to account size. Case in point the guy who reported he blew out his account in 5 hours. The Author's point is excellent and traders will have to learn to go for reasonable goals rather than trying to make a killing should learn from this.

Oh by the way all my DD trades you keep trying to point out that magically exist in your imagination are all gone now. I zeroed them out and all my profitable trades are in the bank. I restart trading again the 2nd week of January. Meanwhile I am spenind my earned money on the South Beaches of China in Bei Hai. I will going out to lunch with the Deputy Mayor of Bei Hai and then go for a walk on the Beach. Tonight I will play cards with the locals and enjoy my favorite Western Restaurant in China. Merry Christamas and Happy New Year. That is how I spent my pennies I earned the last couple of months trading. Remember I told you how I spent my money trading forex. How did you spend yours????
  • #34
  • Edited Dec 30, 2011 1:19am Dec 29, 2011 10:10pm | Edited Dec 30, 2011 1:19am
Quoting pipmutt
There's obviously some history between you two and I don't want to get in the middle of a domestic, but maybe he makes more than 1 penny? Assuming he's saying 1 penny per pip per $500 then the return could be very respectable. Add interest into the mix and it might look even better.
I had to leave my home for several hours otherwise I would of responded sooner.

There is no history of negativity between bob and I, but I've challenged his trading method before and I just wanted to be clear with him that it is not in a negative and confrontational way just in case he has taken it that way. Whether it is 1 penny total or 1 penny per pip I have a hard time finding any benefit to trading such a way. One would be better off taking the money and putting it into just about anything else that has fixed return. And that way you don't have to spend any time entering trades. As for adding interest into the mix, that won't be much, if anything, on a one cent per pip position. Your br0ker may not even pay anything on that since it's such a small fraction. However, bob could make a valid argument if he said his method was a long-term plan where all profits and interest were reinvested and then maybe after 10 years it could be a respectable sum. I would still recommend not trading his method, but at least it would give his method some credence. However, we already know he doesn't do that because he has stated on several occasions that he withdraws the profits annually to buy airfare for a vacation. So he starts off with x amount, makes peanuts and finishes the year with x amount. He might not even really be making any profit since he has also admitted to having to add money to avoid margin calls.

Quoting pipmutt
Bottom line is it sounds like he's got a strategy and he's making money, which last time I looked was the whole purpose of the exercise, no?
No, that is not the purpose. The purpose is to make enough money to justify the time spent and the opportunity cost utilized. If you told me I could have 5 dollars a day but needed to sit in front of my computer for 1 hour I would tell you to get lost. As far as I've read in bob's threads and in his comments elsewhere, it looks like bob sits in front of his computer for more than an hour a day to make less than 5 dollars.
  • #35
  • Dec 29, 2011 10:15pm Dec 29, 2011 10:15pm
great thread btw to the op

hmmm how not to go broke in forex? here are MY components

1. listen to yourself and your models
2. ignore media
3. pay attention to the impact of data on interest rates(i drives everything in this world)
4. understand statistics and probability
5. know how to manage risk and the money in your account
6. when in doubt, stay out of the market......it will be there tomorrow
7. be adaptable, the market is constantly changing
  • #36
  • Dec 29, 2011 10:28pm Dec 29, 2011 10:28pm
Quoting spekitox
Funny how people notice what they actually want to notice. I guess it depends on whether your glass is half full or half empty .. Poor Steve, see what the rat race did to him, his glass must be totally empty.
Why poor Steve? Steve is smart. Steve is thinking ahead. Don't feel sorry for Steve. He'll be the one doing fine when things go wrong. I don't see what the half empty glass analogy has to do with it. I think it's prudent to think ahead.
  • #37
  • Edited 10:50pm Dec 29, 2011 10:35pm | Edited 10:50pm
Quoting nubcake
maybe money doesn't make one happy now. but having money when they need it sure is going to save a lot of tears down the road if needed and perhaps prevent everything going bye-bye that a person needs and/or values.

a care-free attitude and lifestyle is bitchin', until shit hits the fan and it all goes belly-up. that's like trading without a stop and winning winning winning then imploding.

that's doing a charlie sheen.



good luck trying to get anywhere, buy anything..... live.... in this world without money. if you want to go live in the woods and hunt deer and grubs then power to you, otherwise you are shit out of luck and need some of that sweet sweet currency to exist with everyone else. true story.
  • #38
  • Edited 11:06pm Dec 29, 2011 10:46pm | Edited 11:06pm
Quoting pipmutt
lol, when did I say that? But now you come to mention it maybe they are, there's always someone worse off financially, physically, or mentally. Take your millionaire boss of some corp, stressed, domestic issues, perhaps on the verge of being exposed for some misdeed, heck we've seen plenty of those recently! Would I rather be a bum collecting cans than let's say a Bernie Madoff? You bet!
You can't take an extreme and apply it to make a sound point. Bernie Madoff was a crook. No one here is talking about becoming a crook. We're talking about making a healthy profit in a legit manner.

Quoting pipmutt
Well I don't myself but it certainly seems like someone is doing just that (not sure about the 'few pips' though, I don't think he said). I bet he'd be envied by the alleged 90% who lose everything within 6 months though!
The people that lose money would also rather be like the 1% that make real money. If they knew bob's ROI%, they would also rather put their money in an annuity or bond. The debate is not whether bob's way is preferable to losing money. The debate is about what is the best way to trade or invest.
  • #39
  • Dec 29, 2011 10:59pm Dec 29, 2011 10:59pm
Easy can't make you rich )
anw, high risk high return
  • #40
  • Edited Dec 30, 2011 12:29am Dec 29, 2011 11:05pm | Edited Dec 30, 2011 12:29am
Quoting nanningbob
Again I do it because it works, that is my edge, it works. Since our last discussion my account is now up 50% since August and continues to go up. My win percentage is above 80% and I am meeting my goals of averaging 10% on my account every month. My live account is my proof and it is not a lie and I have been doing this for years. The difference is my win ratio is higher than 2 years ago, I was closer to 70%. That is called increasing your trading skill. 10% compounding every month is working in my favor. You assume it cant work therefore you keep...
First off bob, don't try and convince us that you're going to the beach and dining with deputy mayors on your forex earnings. That's coming from your day job as a school principal and not the "50% return" of what you have said yourself to be a small account. Secondly, telling us that much makes you look petty. One thing I do know with certainty is that you have been the master of contradiction in here. Everything you say contradicts something you have previously said. You say your hit rate is 80% now. So then that means the other 20% goes into drawdown where it eats into your balance and margin - since you don't use a stop. You can keep writing, but anyone with half a brain sees right through your words.
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