Dishonest & a bucket shop? | Forex Factory

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Dishonest & a bucket shop?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 10:02am Dec 28, 2011 6:20am | Edited 10:02am
This post is about Oanda. Some jackass modified my original post without even asking me.

I recently opened a short in USDINR pair for the interest rate differential to gain the advantage of 7 + % base rate on the INR pair. A couple of observations:

The current quote at 54.35/48 is not being offered by any respectable broker. But this is not the main bone of contention here. What pains me more is that they spike the pair up to 54.74 whereas see the attached GTIS feed screenshot (this is from a combined source of over 200 fx contributors)- the maximum was 54.43!! I contacted them via chat and got no reasonable response. I have attached the chat as well. Beware of Oanda and I suggest stay away when trading pairs like INR with Oanda.
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Its all in the mind.
  • #2
  • Dec 28, 2011 7:17am Dec 28, 2011 7:17am
Quoting 5abi
I recently opened a short in USDINR pair for the interest rate differential to gain the advantage of 7 + % base rate on the INR pair. A couple of observations:

The current quote at 54.35/48 is not being offered by any respectable broker. But this is not the main bone of contention here. What pains me more is that they spike the pair up to 54.74 whereas see the attached GTIS feed screenshot (this is from a combined source of over 200 fx contributors)- the maximum was 54.43!! I contacted them via chat and got no reasonable response. I have attached...
The charts are equal in magnitude but they are offset by about 1.3. Don't know why it is 1.3, if it were .3 I would say it was probably because the GTIS feed is displaying the bid price, whereas you are displaying the ask price of the oanda feed. But price moved the same amount of pips in both charts. Doesn't look to me that Oanda has manipulated anything here.
  • #3
  • Dec 28, 2011 11:33am Dec 28, 2011 11:33am
Oanda widens spreads during low liquidity or news releases...

Right now is a time of very low liquidity thanks to the holidays.

Also, eSignal isn't showing a true market price, they just repackage the feed of a few different sources.
FXGears.com
  • #4
  • Dec 28, 2011 6:49pm Dec 28, 2011 6:49pm
You seem not to have taken on board the replies to this thread as you have modified the thread and put oanda in big red letters. If you are going to out a broker and claim they have manipulated their price feed then you should make sure that you are right.

Firstly, it would help if you showed the two data feeds on the same period chart rather than a 15m and a 1m. This makes it more difficult to compare the charts.

Secondly, you have posted a chart of oanda's ask price. Normally, most brokers display the bid price. I am not familiar with GTIS feed, but they probably use a bid price.

Thirdly, as I have said, the magnitudes of the chart are the same, the prices are just offset. Look at the highs of the consolidation before the rally you are talking about and measure the distance from said highs to the top of the rally. Both charts went about 20 pips.

So, taking these facts into consideration it is quite clear that oanda has NOT 'spiked' the price into highs that were never realised by the rest of the forex markets as you are claiming. It has something to do with the way the two data feeds are being quoted.

ps why have you just tried oanda chat as a resolution and why have you not included the transcript in your post. The live chat is pretty hopeless, it is just for very simple questions. You need to email frontdesk for things like this. I can't understand why you have not done this? You are clearly quite upset about this, but you have tried one little conversation with a sales rep and never taken it any further, instead choosing to plaster it on internet before you have the facts straight.
  • #5
  • Dec 29, 2011 7:44am Dec 29, 2011 7:44am
they probably use high spread for this currency,as it is considered exotic,yet u shout like a retard claiming fraud without giving any details,as i just looked now normal spread is above 10 pips so not amazed if it got multiplied x10 for some news,yet you propably used full leverage without thinking twice,and look to blame someone for it.
  • #6
  • Dec 29, 2011 8:18am Dec 29, 2011 8:18am
Well I cannot understand your deep agitation. Anyways, as I said before the Oanda situation with regards to USD INR is against the trader. Do you read my post? I said that they are not moving their quotes in a way that reflects how the market is moving, for instance, they are not lowering the price even when it is clear that other brokers are showing USD INR go down. It is almost as if they want to keep the shorts locked in.

And then about the spike, they show 54.75 when the price never touched that level.

My post is to forewarn other traders who plan to trade INR with Oanda that this is what they could expect.



Quoting Agro
You seem not to have taken on board the replies to this thread as you have modified the thread and put oanda in big red letters. If you are going to out a broker and claim they have manipulated their price feed then you should make sure that you are right.

Firstly, it would help if you showed the two data feeds on the same period chart rather than a 15m and a 1m. This makes it more difficult to compare the charts.

Secondly, you have posted a chart of oanda's ask price. Normally, most brokers display the bid price. I am not familiar with GTIS...
Its all in the mind.
  • #7
  • Dec 29, 2011 8:20am Dec 29, 2011 8:20am
Spread is not that bad. 11 at best times. So it is not the spread but it is the quote itself- it is way too high (100 points higher) than esignal and other market makers.

And no for the leverage too. I have a modest amount of leverage used.

Quoting pinkiaiii
they probably use high spread for this currency,as it is considered exotic,yet u shout like a retard claiming fraud without giving any details,as i just looked now normal spread is above 10 pips so not amazed if it got multiplied x10 for some news,yet you propably used full leverage without thinking twice,and look to blame someone for it.
Its all in the mind.
  • #8
  • Dec 29, 2011 11:25am Dec 29, 2011 11:25am
Are you daft?

If they were off quote by so much the rest of the world would just arb them to death.
FXGears.com
  • #9
  • Dec 29, 2011 4:36pm Dec 29, 2011 4:36pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin

Are you daft?

If they were off quote by so much the rest of the world would just arb them to death.

Nice idea but they wouldn't get filled, marketmakers aren't that stupid!

Nothing new here though, off-market spikes are/were commonplace among these shops, they quote based on their book and the underlying market, it's one of the joys of trading OTC


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  • #10
  • Dec 29, 2011 4:41pm Dec 29, 2011 4:41pm
Quoting pipmutt
Nice idea but they wouldn't get filled, marketmakers aren't that stupid!

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That's my point.
FXGears.com
  • #11
  • Dec 29, 2011 4:44pm Dec 29, 2011 4:44pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin

That's my point.
Hmmm, well how would the "the rest of the world would just arb them to death" if the marketmaker doesn't fill their order?
  • #12
  • Dec 29, 2011 4:55pm Dec 29, 2011 4:55pm
Quoting pipmutt
Hmmm, well how would the "the rest of the world would just arb them to death" if the marketmaker doesn't fill their order?
What I meant is; the price quote wouldn't be that far off since market makers don't have a death wish. And yes, Oanda would fill you at a price they quote, they offer up to $10 Million*** in instant execution so long as the price hasn't changed. In the OP's example, there's no price spikes that aren't marketable, he's trying to convince people they are shifted away from the market rate for long periods of time. It's just silly.


***EDIT:: Figured I'd back this up for anyone who thinks that's just a number pulled out of my butt

Source: http://fxtrade.oanda.com/trade-forex/fxtrade/

"""-Pursue trading or hedging strategies without worrying about lot sizes or laddered pricing. Make your trades as granular or fragmented as you need, or place large trades up to 10 million units without any variation in pricing."""
FXGears.com
  • #13
  • Edited 5:52pm Dec 29, 2011 5:07pm | Edited 5:52pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin

the price quote wouldn't be that far off since market makers don't have a death wish.

they offer up to $10 Million in instant execution so long as the price hasn't changed.
Like all the other shops they quote what they want to quote, they fill what they want to fill, at a price they want to fill at, and there's absolutely no obligation for them to quote at/near the underlying market price or execute any order at a specific price. That's the essence of the marketmaking business and it's all clearly laid out in their terms of business.

A few years back Oanda went through a spate of 'unintentional erroneous' spikes and to give them credit they did reverse all the trades. Since the change in rules it may not be something they would be willing to do now, refund losses due to an 'erroneous' spike but not reverse gains!


Extract from Oanda Risk Disclosure Statement

Your dealer may offer any prices it wishes, and it may offer prices derived from outside sources or not in its discretion. Your dealer may establish its prices by offering spreads from third party prices, but it is under no obligation to do so or to continue to do so. Your dealer may offer different prices to different customers at any point in time on its own terms. The terms of your account agreement alone govern the
obligations your dealer has to you to offer prices and offer offset or liquidating transactions in your account and make any payments to you.
The prices offered by your dealer may or may not reflect prices available elsewhere at any exchange, interbank, or other market for foreign currency.
  • #14
  • Dec 29, 2011 5:12pm Dec 29, 2011 5:12pm
Quoting pipmutt
Like all the other shops they quote what they want to quote, they fill what they want to fill, at a price they want to fill at, and there's absolutely no obligation for them to quote at/near the underlying market price or execute any order at a specific price. That's the essence of the marketmaking business and it's all clearly laid out in their terms of business.

A few years back Oanda went through a spate of 'unintentional' spikes and to give them credit they did reverse all the trades. Since the change in rules it may not be something...
See my edit from the previous post.

Change in the rules?
FXGears.com
  • #15
  • Dec 29, 2011 5:27pm Dec 29, 2011 5:27pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin

See my edit from the previous post.
Saw them, see mine

Quoting Jack_Larkin

Change in the rules?
CR 2-43(a) Price Adjustments



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  • #16
  • Dec 29, 2011 10:04pm Dec 29, 2011 10:04pm
Ok, looked into this a bit more today.

Oanda have confirmed that their quotes are in line with their liquidity providers. Current bid/ask average is around 54.50.

All other data providers/brokers that I have looked at are quoting about 53.05-30. This is probably the bid price.

I only have one other platform (CFH markets) who are quoting 53.30 (bid and offer (0 spread)). I cannot hit the bid or ask however so they are not dealing in this currency at the moment.

This is a very thinly traded currency and I would expect quotes to be off somewhat, but not by this much.

Could be

We are around holiday time and the quotes from all the rest are not tradable so not a real reflection of the market.

The price of other brokers is the bid price and spread is 200+ or something.

Oanda's liquidity prices have been feeding them bad data for many days (very unlikely)


We need some other people with other brokers to see if they can trade USD/INR at the moment and what quotes they are being offered to help solve this.


My best guess is that you will not be able to trade the lower quotes with other brokers as they are not dealing in the pair at the moment, but that will need to be confirmed by other traders (as I have said, I cannot deal at CFH at the moment in this pair even though I can trade all the majors)

From your standpoint though, you should be over the moon if you strongly believe that oanda is this far out of line. You want to short the pair and you are being offered a fantastic price. Prices will come back in line eventually and you will be more than 100 pips better off than if you went through one of the other brokers no matter which direction it moves.

Another line of attack is to open a short at oanda and a long at another broker. Once they come back in line close the positions and you will pocket a free 100+ pips.


As I say, I believe you will not be able to deal the lower prices anywhere else (as I can't at cfh). They are not tradable rates, but this is just my best guess. I tend to trust oanda's feed over other brokers as they are open for more hours in general. Those weekend gaps that everyone talks about are not found at oanda as they open a lot earlier than other brokers and lead the price. Everyone else comes on line latter at the price oanda's clients have discovered.

As I have said twice before, oanda does not look to be manipulating anything here. They are quoting you the prices they are being offered (plus a bit of a buffer in the spread). They have not spiked the price to highs that were never quoted to them. The fact that the magnitude of the moves in both the charts are the same allows me to say this with confidence (you seem to have totally ignored this point the last two times I have brought it up even though it is a very important clue to solving this). It seems to me that you do not want to solve this puzzle at all, you just want to get on here and flame a broker. Why have you not taken the steps that I have just taken, it only took me a few minutes.
  • #17
  • Last Post: Jan 1, 2012 8:24pm Jan 1, 2012 8:24pm
ok good deal. Current bid at 53.74, ask at 54.74 CST 8:14 PM. This is better than where they were on Friday.





Quoting Agro
Ok, looked into this a bit more today.

Oanda have confirmed that their quotes are in line with their liquidity providers. Current bid/ask average is around 54.50.

All other data providers/brokers that I have looked at are quoting about 53.05-30. This is probably the bid price.

I only have one other platform (CFH markets) who are quoting 53.30 (bid and offer (0 spread)). I cannot hit the bid or ask however so they are not dealing in this currency at the moment.

This is a very thinly traded currency and I would expect quotes to be off somewhat,...
Its all in the mind.
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