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ICCE. Bemac's Fib. Reverse Engineered

  • #1,801
  • Dec 14, 2011 1:32pm Dec 14, 2011 1:32pm
Quoting beebolbod
+1 here..... been away from the trading studies... christmas, life, etc.
You guys brighten my life bigtime!! - even if I do think you are a little crazy - thankyou!

I know what you mean about xmas, life, etc, I am spread a bit thin at the moment but working on it, school holidays almost here, not sure if that will help or hinder!!
  • #1,802
  • Dec 16, 2011 2:19am Dec 16, 2011 2:19am
Quoting One day!
Chart from last post....

Attachment

Thought that I would see how this was developing - freaky!

Attachment
Here is a current chart - a good example of how a box in the correct place can remain relevant for a long time...

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  • #1,803
  • Dec 16, 2011 2:54am Dec 16, 2011 2:54am
Quoting One day!
Here is a current chart - a good example of how a box in the correct place can remain relevant for a long time...

Attachment
I am still amazed at how these things work - or how you guys magically get PA to react to consistently meet these ICCE lines
  • #1,804
  • Edited 7:42pm Dec 16, 2011 7:31pm | Edited 7:42pm
Quoting CathS
I am still amazed at how these things work - or how you guys magically get PA to react to consistently meet these ICCE lines

I wrote a reply to Bills remark about "1 vote?" and trashed it.
Reading your post, made me rethink it.
Please understand that I am writing this from a constructive point of view and am grateful to Bill for all the hard work and endless hours he put in to formulate ICCE.

You wrote, "you guys magically get PA to react to consistently meet these ICCE lines".

With not the least intention of wishing to sound brash, that really sums up what is wrong with this thread, and why so few new people seem to get to grips with it.

It looks like magic to new people reading the thread.
Why is that?

I have thought about this a great deal and have come to the following conclusion.

1: There is no detailed explanation of how to correctly identify, the consolidation areas that the box should be applied to, and there are no fixed and firm rules to disqualify areas. I mean, we are basically left with only discretion as to how far back in time, how large or small a consolidation are should be. Therefore a great deal of subjectivity is necessary in deciding where the box should be applied. Of course, I realize that trading itself is a very subjective subject, that cannot be avoided.
It just seems that, to really put our faith in these lines, we really need at least a few basic set of rules to help us define the valid and invalid areas.

Maybe there are some, maybe there are not, perhaps it is not possible to formulate rules for this.

I am still struggling with ICCE, J16 and trading itself, and perhaps this is the root cause of this post, I am writing. Perhaps, it is not. Right now, I am not sure.

With respect.

Steve

Edit:

Here is an example.

I choose this area for the box, why? I have to think about it, was I curve fitting?

Why did, I not choose one of the other areas marked with the rectangle tool?
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  • #1,805
  • Dec 16, 2011 8:53pm Dec 16, 2011 8:53pm
Hi Steve

You have verbalised my frustrations also, that I have tried to put on my "deal with later" list while I am trying to learn the basics.

I know this defintely doesn't work for everyone, but I have been trying to just "accept" that ICCE works, assuming that the "magic" comes from the programming that creates the box in the first place. I would prefer to understand the programming but am trying to switch off from that given everything else I am trying to take in at the moment - not always easy, and to me it does still seem unreal that a simple box of formulas can project lines out that match turning points in charts (I am still coming to grips with how well technical analysis works overall tho, the sceptic in me still thinks that itself is magic). It is not in my nature to just "accept" things though so I will be needing to unravel some programming before long.

I would love a set of definite rules but as you said I don't think they exist for ICCE - I think its nature precludes that. I think ICCE actually requires us to "curve fit" - ie we put the box where we can get the most results in the future &/or past, and we need to move the box around to achieve that.

Where we put our boxes might also depend on our individual risk preferences etc, how many times do we want to see price bouncing off lines before we are happy to accept it as a valid line, does price have to touch the line or does it just need to get close to it etc etc etc. I have studied the charts that people post here and they all seem to have differing requirements in these areas.

Traders have even developed their own ICCE formulas, catering to their individual preferences, which I take to mean that there is in fact no definitive correct way of applying ICCE to charts.

I guess I came at ICCE from the angle of seeing it work on charts I was very familiar with, so a certain amount of acceptance has come from that, which others new to ICCE won't immediately have. I don't know to counter that, just accepting that "it is so" is not an easy thing to do.

I know I have just created more questions here, and would welcome any comments/criticisms from anyone who really does understand how this thing works! - particularly if I am completely off track. (and Steve to me you are a guru, no matter how unconfident you feel <is that even a word?>).

cheers
cath
  • #1,806
  • Edited 9:39pm Dec 16, 2011 9:06pm | Edited 9:39pm
Quoting Pinbar
I wrote a reply to Bills remark about "1 vote?" and trashed it.
Reading your post, made me rethink it.
Please understand that I am writing this from a constructive point of view and am grateful to Bill for all the hard work and endless hours he put in to formulate ICCE.

You wrote, "you guys magically get PA to react to consistently meet these ICCE lines".

With not the least intention of wishing to sound brash, that really sums up what is wrong with this thread, and why so few new people seem to get to grips with it.

It looks like magic to...
Hi Steve & Cathy. Primarily to Steve
Brash? Not at all Bud. I understand 100% where you are coming from.

I agree that ICCE does seem to have some sort of Art Form but with practice & exposure comes familiarity.

True, the few Members that regularly comment do have some level of Coding ability indicating a mathematical penchant But that is why I wanted the Ind Coded.
I knew I would have a tough time explaining the Math side of it to the General Trader. I just wanted a Graphic.

First: My original Ah Ha.
50% is Not a Fib. It is only there because Traders put it there.
Why?
Plot a couple of thousand Fib Fans or Extensions on Historic Data & you may eventually notice that there is often (not always) Traffic(Confluence. A Natural PPZ) @ the 50%.

Think about it.
Consolidation happens when?
A) Bulls & Bears (Suppliers & Consumers) are content?
B) Bulls & Bears are intent on Attacking Hard & Defending Hard?
C) Other?

ICCE originated in the thought proccess of...
"Perhaps the current PA Confluence will eventually become 50% of the Full Move."
If True, Then all other Fib Levels could be attached.

Think of it this way.
ICCE was My attempt to PREDICT PPZ.
I was searching for 'Turn/Break Points'
Some friends of mine call it PPZ but they see it from a different viewpont.
What do you do if PA Makes a New High? Where are you headed?
ICCE has a Projection.

If you intend to Apply a Box.
First things first.
Change Chart Style to LOC (Line On Close). No Opens, Highs or Lows.
Zoom Out.
Look for the Most Boring section of the Chart.
Plot ICCE to encompass Highest Close & Lowest Close of that sector.
Change to Candle or Bar chart if you prefer
Zoom Out to Max.

I find my self thinking back 40 years to when I was teaching my Wife to drive a standard & telling Her to "Feel The Clutch BEFORE hitting the gas".
There really is no way to explain it without experience.

Hope this helps you PB. But feel free to push me again for not being clear.

---

This one's for Oneday. {If the Box is Accurate in History, The Box can be Predicted} I haven't fully got my own mind around that one just yet but working on it.

B
Noel
p.s. Added Chart. I know it is only my subjective opinion but an Apprentice should be able to evaluate their Jouneyman's work.
AUDCAD Daily.
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  • #1,807
  • Dec 17, 2011 12:33am Dec 17, 2011 12:33am
Quoting Bemac
Hi Steve & Cathy. Primarily to Steve
Brash? Not at all Bud. I understand 100% where you are coming from.

I agree that ICCE does seem to have some sort of Art Form but with practice & exposure comes familiarity.

True, the few Members that regularly comment do have some level of Coding ability indicating a mathematical penchant But that is why I wanted the Ind Coded.
I knew I would have a tough time explaining the Math side of it to the General Trader. I just wanted a Graphic.

First: My original Ah Ha.
50% is Not a Fib. It is only there because...
Thanks for your understanding and explanation Bill.
It means a great deal to me and I know many others also.

LOL. that analogy reminds me of when I was 7 and my father taught me to drive.
I was asking him, how do yo know when to change gears. He told me, "You can hear the engine, it will tell you when to change gears". Couldn't grasp that for a few days but, a month later he handed that little boy the keys to his jaguar after drinking in a pub and went to sleep in the back. The engine did indeed tell that little boy when to change gears, during the 10 mile drive back to the family holiday house in Wales.


Consolidation occurs when bulls and bears are fighting it out with no winner, till one side collects more buyers or sellers.
So, I will go for B.

Here is a rough description of the process I used to choose the consolidation area and validate it using historical S&R areas and PA.
I also noted a few valid PA setups off these areas after the box was drawn that, it would have been possible to utilize the PPZ areas projected.

Hopefully, if it is correct, it may serve to help someone else who is interested in Bills hard work.

If it is totally screwed up and off the mark, Bill can holler and put us back on track. Hopefully.
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  • #1,808
  • Dec 18, 2011 10:54am Dec 18, 2011 10:54am
You people are great.... a lot being learned here and really appreciated too.
  • #1,809
  • Dec 18, 2011 1:21pm Dec 18, 2011 1:21pm
Quoting Pinbar
Thanks for your understanding and explanation Bill.
It means a great deal to me and I know many others also.

LOL. that analogy reminds me of when I was 7 and my father taught me to drive.
I was asking him, how do yo know when to change gears. He told me, "You can hear the engine, it will tell you when to change gears". Couldn't grasp that for a few days but, a month later he handed that little boy the keys to his jaguar after drinking in a pub and went to sleep in the back. The engine did indeed tell that little boy when to change gears, during...
Hey! Pinbar;
Where I have been speaking to the Few for Years, I believe that in 5 Pics, You have just spoken to the Masses.

Great Post. Thanks man.


ps. remeind me not to drive the next time I'm in Wales. lol
cymru am bach

BMc
  • #1,810
  • Dec 18, 2011 3:56pm Dec 18, 2011 3:56pm
Can I suggest that Pinbar's post be attached to the first post somehow as a guide (assuming he is ok with that)?

Excellent work, as always, Steve, thanks.

And now I am re-doing charts with LOCs too.......

C.
  • #1,811
  • Dec 18, 2011 4:20pm Dec 18, 2011 4:20pm
Quoting CathS
Can I suggest that Pinbar's post be attached to the first post somehow as a guide (assuming he is ok with that)?

Excellent work, as always, Steve, thanks.

And now I am re-doing charts with LOCs too.......

C.
You are certainly Thee Most Polite ... __Aussie__Lady__ Person__ ... I have Ever encountered. {No Offence to Aussies, Ladies or Persons intended}.
Of course you can & I accept your idea but it may have to wait until After I get over the effects of both of my 20 something year old kids along with their partners bringing GrapeJuice to 'Pop's Place' for a Pre Christmass Sunday Family Gathering.

{Police Sirens in the background....
"Pull Over... We suspect You are TUI"
Trading Under the Influence is a serious Offence}
Posted my XTrade Gold thoughts "Before The Open" just as the kids got here.

Y'know, sometimes Life just stands up in front of you and you realize...

"I am soooo lucky in having been awarded the life that was assigned to me."

Merry Holidays to ALL & I wish for all of you that ...
Your Problems may be vanquished in the coming times.

B
  • #1,812
  • Dec 18, 2011 6:21pm Dec 18, 2011 6:21pm
Glad, I could help out a little Bill.

Hope you all enjoy your Xmas and have a politically incorrect, MERRY Xmas as opposed to the sanitized "Happy Xmas".

I was talking to a friend in the UK who wished me a "Happy Xmas" I asked him since when have you spoken American? LOL
After which he informed me that it is no longer politically correct to wish people a "Merry Xmas" because of the association with being drunk.

Alright, may you all have a great DRUNKEN Xmas, without the hangovers.
LOL
  • #1,813
  • Dec 18, 2011 6:29pm Dec 18, 2011 6:29pm
Quoting Pinbar
Glad, I could help out a little Bill.

Hope you all enjoy your Xmas and have a politically incorrect, MERRY Xmas as opposed to the sanitized "Happy Xmas".

I was talking to a friend in the UK who wished me a "Happy Xmas" I asked him since when have you spoken American? LOL
After which he informed me that it is no longer politically correct to wish people a "Merry Xmas" because of the association with being drunk.

Alright, may you all have a great DRUNKEN Xmas, without the hangovers.
LOL
Actually, PB, If you haven't heard, Xmass has been cancelled this year.
Santa was arrested for Feeling Merry!

ooooh. Bad timing. No inference to penchants. To all; a Good Night.
B
  • #1,814
  • Dec 18, 2011 6:41pm Dec 18, 2011 6:41pm
Quoting Bemac
Actually, PB, If you haven't heard, Xmass has been cancelled this year.
Santa was arrested for Feeling Merry!

ooooh. Bad timing. No inference to penchants. To all; a Good Night.
B

They caught you DD with your Santa suite on? LOL
  • #1,815
  • Dec 18, 2011 6:56pm Dec 18, 2011 6:56pm
Now this is where it gets really interesting.

an hour or so ago, I posted a couple of charts in the J16 thread.
This post is mainly about using Jarroo's HCR on the higher TF and combining it with J16s base system. I saw a possible base system entry on the H1 tf.

Anyway, I just put Bills ICCE on this chart and was a little surprised to see the confluence of Jarroos pullback entry at 1.3091, the base system and ICCE. Incredible.

The upper two pics are what I posted in the J16 thread along with the text.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrived back from Japan in one piece.

Just looking at the base system again but this time combining what Jarroo has taught us for extra
confluence. EDIT: Actually, I think I am combining the base system with what Jarroo has taught me, if you see what I mean. I am looking at the base system as an extra confluence with PBT&CA

The EUR/AUD looks to be at an interesting area right now and I am using it to see if Jarroo's methodology can be used with the base system and if both of them will act as extra confluence.
I spent most of last night going over all my notes on Seeking Lights wonderful stuff, which is actually basically J16s stuff.
Anyway, this is a real time experiment in combining the two methodologies.
I realize we have just had a weekly close below the 1.3091. However, I am also looking to see if the base system can get us in early.

Let's see how it works out.
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  • #1,816
  • Dec 18, 2011 7:08pm Dec 18, 2011 7:08pm
Quoting Pinbar
Now this is where it gets really interesting.

an hour or so ago, I posted a couple of charts in the J16 thread.
This post is mainly about using Jarroo's HCR on the higher TF and combining it with J16s base system. I saw a possible base system entry on the H1 tf.

Anyway, I just put Bills ICCE on this chart and was a little surprised to see the confluence of Jarroos pullback entry at 1.3091, the base system and ICCE. Incredible.

The upper two pics are what I posted in the J16 thread along with the text.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrived...
Cool: Not a Bullet but perhaps an Arrow.
Happy B to see you folks thinking about it.

B
  • #1,817
  • Dec 18, 2011 7:31pm Dec 18, 2011 7:31pm
Quoting Bemac
Cool: Not a Bullet but perhaps an Arrow.
Happy B to see you folks thinking about it.

B

I am watching this as, I believe it could possibly teach me a great deal about, all three systems.
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  • #1,818
  • Dec 18, 2011 7:42pm Dec 18, 2011 7:42pm
Quoting Pinbar
I am watching this as, I believe it could possibly teach me a great deal about, all three systems.
Welcome PB. You are on the threshold of understanding. Remain Positive in pushing your wares.

B
Gotta go...
Have to get the PF up to date on what I posted here.
Sometimes I slip & give it to you guys Before I whisper it. somehow I don't feel bad about that & I KNOW, niether Jim or Mike mind me doing so.
Bemac
  • #1,819
  • Dec 18, 2011 7:58pm Dec 18, 2011 7:58pm
Quoting Bemac
Welcome PB. You are on the threshold of understanding. Remain Positive in pushing your wares.

B
Gotta go...
Have to get the PF up to date on what I posted here.
Sometimes I slip & give it to you guys Before I whisper it. somehow I don't feel bad about that & I KNOW, niether Jim or Mike mind me doing so.
Bemac
I hear you Bill.

Please say hi to Jarroo for me.

Still have a lot to catch up on after being away in Japan for two weeks.
My wife unpacked my suitcase. Now, I have to unpack my mind.
  • #1,820
  • Dec 18, 2011 8:13pm Dec 18, 2011 8:13pm
Quoting Pinbar
I hear you Bill.

Please say hi to Jarroo for me.

Still have a lot to catch up on after being away in Japan for two weeks.
My wife unpacked my suitcase. Now, I have to unpack my mind.
Geeze. Hopefully you find your Guanchi before the morrow.
B
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