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Arbitrage between 2 brokers

  • #101
  • Dec 4, 2011 5:52pm Dec 4, 2011 5:52pm
And no where in there did they mention that you were Arbing. (yes, it's an example).

The whole arguement was that the broker can tell your running arbitrage. No, they can't. They can detect EXACTLY what you have put down below. Which is why you need to write your EA carfully enough to avoid these situations.

Quoting Ultimate6
Oh here's an example of what you might get:

Dear client,



"It has been noted that you are continuously requesting to open orders at previous or wrong prices. This may be occurring either due to poor internet connection from your side or a misuse of an expert advisor. We will proceed to temporarily block your account as per clauses 5.6 of the Terms and Conditions. Please contact [email protected] when you resolve this issue so we can re-activate your account."



5.6


The client accepts that FxPro...
  • #102
  • Dec 5, 2011 12:43am Dec 5, 2011 12:43am
Quoting nondisclosure00
How in the world did you get c# to talk to MT4? MT4 can only handle unmanged code.
Try this link: Write a C# DLL for Metatrader
  • #103
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:09am Dec 5, 2011 8:09am
Quoting Ultimate6
Oh here's an example of what you might get:

Dear client,



"It has been noted that you are continuously requesting to open orders at previous or wrong prices. This may be occurring either due to poor internet connection from your side or a misuse of an expert advisor. We will proceed to temporarily block your account as per clauses 5.6 of the Terms and Conditions. Please contact [email protected] when you resolve this issue so we can re-activate your account."



5.6


The client accepts that FxPro reserves the...


I did some research on this "incorrect price" stuff and found this lengthy thread. Brokers are explicitly against this type of system and they can cancel orders at their wish... It is not a fair game~~~Bypassing the brokers, there may still have some chances? then, we have to compete with HFT systems from bigboys. any advice?

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=299780
  • #104
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:13am Dec 5, 2011 8:13am
Quoting nondisclosure00
How in the world did you get c# to talk to MT4? MT4 can only handle unmanged code.
Reverse engineered protocol. I know a guy who did it (fully managed c#) he sells the dll for $3000 and compiles me ones that last a month at a time, it is obfuscated to hell and gone with the license stuff and only that in a c++ dll.
  • #105
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:14am Dec 5, 2011 8:14am
Quoting Iceworld79
I did some research on this "incorrect price" stuff and found this lengthy thread. Brokers are explicitly against this type of system and they can cancel orders at their wish... It is not a fair game~~~Bypassing the brokers, there may still have some chances? then, we have to compete with HFT systems from bigboys. any advice?

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=299780
Any real ECN broker should be ok with this (i think) they charge you commission because they are not supposed to profit on you losing.
  • #106
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:33am Dec 5, 2011 8:33am
Quoting Ronald Raygun
... Now, considering the events around the world as of late, arbitrage opportunities are actually more frequently occurring again because of the differences between the speed information travels from the source to the interbanks.

The arbitrage opportunities are most obvious at the week's open, when each bank has factored in the weekend's news into their Bid/Ask. Thing is, each bank factors in the news differently, which leads to some instances where the Ask at one bank is greater than the Bid at another bank.

So to implement this method, you...
Have you ever tried this before or ever really looked into it?
Do you think this could be done using a STP/ECN and a MM?
Do you think there are any MMs that would not catch on?
  • #107
  • Dec 5, 2011 8:46am Dec 5, 2011 8:46am
Quoting Ronald Raygun
The arbitrage opportunities are most obvious at the week's open, when each bank has factored in the weekend's news into their Bid/Ask. Thing is, each bank factors in the news differently, which leads to some instances where the Ask at one bank is greater than the Bid at another bank.
Bank liquidity runs all the time, there is no week open/close unless if you use retail broker open/close.
  • #108
  • Dec 5, 2011 9:46am Dec 5, 2011 9:46am
Quoting ZInvestor
Have you ever tried this before or ever really looked into it?
Do you think this could be done using a STP/ECN and a MM?
Do you think there are any MMs that would not catch on?
I've been doing it recently actually. You know Jason Fielder's new 'forexarb' system that's out? I've been doing that for almost a year now, basically since the euro crisis started. And I'd say he's still behind my developments.

Quoting Ultimate6
Bank liquidity runs all the time, there is no week open/close unless if you use retail broker open/close.
The bank traders have to sleep too you know. Weekend spreads do increase at institutional banks, and oftentimes, transactions are small enough that they can use their internal holdings of currency to exchange them.
  • #109
  • Dec 5, 2011 10:01am Dec 5, 2011 10:01am
Interesting. I'll have to play w/ that after I get some other stuff done.

Quoting FXEZ
Try this link: Write a C# DLL for Metatrader
  • #110
  • Edited 2:41pm Dec 5, 2011 12:14pm | Edited 2:41pm
Not really insane but close to it. I always knew something like this would exist but never investigated it, with the growing number of brokers and "liquidity providers" price differences and weekend open timing will occur, and it looks like we have the bots to do it. BUT WAIT, are you telling me that brokers will delete trades and refuse to payout profits on said trades because either:
a) They discover you are arb'ing
b) They use a part of their client agreement that puts them in the category of a private club casino iewe reserve the right to refuse service to anyone we choose).

Brokers that allow automated trading and that are regulated by some body(NFA and CFTC in the U.S.) should honor any trades that have been completed on their platform, after all the only money they are supposed to be making is the spread right?

The very notion they can withhold funds due to any reason is simply ill-legal. In such cases, complaints should be filed with the regulatory bodies and the public could be made aware of the practices of that broker, this would severly damage their reputation and rightfully should. What if my automatic EA was making these trades based on smoke signals or based on my own tech indicators, how could the broker prove that my trading with them had anything to do with other broker prices and why would that matter anyway?

Can anyone link or site specific cases where arb trading account funds were suspended and/or withheld? If so, were complaints filed?

If in fact brokers do shut down accounts for this reason, I would be on a crusade to expose this fraud if it happened to me.
  • #111
  • Edited 2:41pm Dec 5, 2011 2:25pm | Edited 2:41pm
Quoting forexguy6000
a) They discover you are arb'ing
Dude, how possibly they can "discover" that? They can, perhaps,

assume without any proof what so ever, cause they pretty much sure,

that anyone who has Forex account in plus are Cheating, cause

nobody should beat the "House" That's the only proof they have

in that matter.

Quoting forexguy6000

The very notion they can withhold funds due to any reason is simply ill-legal
All those 3rd party and 3-rd world countries brokers can not even bother with "Arbitrage" crap,

they can just steal your money without any reason and nothing you can do about it.

Conclusion? Play only with world-wide knowing Brokers with good reputation. Not some

small junky 3 chairs, 2 computers, 2-pages website with no contact Phone, type of guys..
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #112
  • Dec 5, 2011 2:40pm Dec 5, 2011 2:40pm
They can discover you are arb'ing by getting a hold of your trades that are in your name from the other broker. My questions remain and I'm really hoping somone who has actually been banned from a forex broker by trading via their platform and legitmately can speak up and share the details. In the abscence of this, I'm very curious to see how this thread unfolds and especialy the comments on forexarb bot.
  • #113
  • Dec 5, 2011 2:56pm Dec 5, 2011 2:56pm
Quoting forexguy6000
They can discover you are arb'ing by getting a hold of your trades that are in your name from the other broker.
I don't see how it's even remotely possible.. You think some Russian guys

can call up broker in Switzerland and ask them for their trading records just because some guy

made 200$ last night? Anyways, what if I have other account open

as Corporate acc or on My wife or brother?

It's impossible to track down.. Don't be paranoiac.
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #114
  • Dec 6, 2011 9:02pm Dec 6, 2011 9:02pm
Well, forexarb and Jason fielder came out with a $2000 price tag on the tool , so they better be sure it works on live with multiple brokers.

The most important thing with arbing is that you have multiple live brokers that allow arbing, if that doesnt happen then it's all a waste of time.
  • #115
  • Dec 6, 2011 9:07pm Dec 6, 2011 9:07pm
Quoting bravester
Well, forexarb and Jason fielder came out with a $2000 price tag on the tool , so they better be sure it works on live with multiple brokers.
$2,000...holy 5hit, they couldn't even change the generic desktop icon, so God knows what spaghetti code lurks beneath.

This snake oil is expensive stuff.
Politics is the womb in which war develops.
  • #116
  • Dec 6, 2011 9:44pm Dec 6, 2011 9:44pm
It's not rocket science how they did it either.

As soon as I can get some time, hopefully before the end of the year, I'll have the same thing in MS Excel.

Quoting FiatFap
$2,000...holy 5hit, they couldn't even change the generic desktop icon, so God knows what spaghetti code lurks beneath.

This snake oil is expensive stuff.
  • #117
  • Dec 6, 2011 10:34pm Dec 6, 2011 10:34pm
Quoting nondisclosure00
It's not rocket science how they did it either.

As soon as I can get some time, hopefully before the end of the year, I'll have the same thing in MS Excel.
Already did it using Excel VBA.

Takes 600ms round trip (incoming quote to trade decision).

Did it in MQL, takes 200ms round trip. I used the named pipes example mentioned here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...47#post4134147)

Doing it in C#, takes 150ms round trip.

Trying to do it in assembly--aiming for 15ms round trip.

My advice, Jason Fielder's method is juvenile, more benefits can be had if you build your own.
  • #118
  • Dec 7, 2011 1:01am Dec 7, 2011 1:01am
We could bid this like "the price is right". LOL

Excel would be a pig, but I need to do it that way as a POC. I might be able to speed up what you've got by not using VBA except to write/read from a C++ DLL.

I used the named pipes once. Way to slow for me.

C# can't be done unless you use a C++ wrapper. There is another method I just read about recenlty, but haven't played w/ it.

I still say a pure C DLL (or C++ but unmanaged) will be the quickest way.

Let us know how you do!

Quoting Ronald Raygun
Already did it using Excel VBA.

Takes 600ms round trip (incoming quote to trade decision).

Did it in MQL, takes 200ms round trip. I used the named pipes example mentioned here (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...47#post4134147)

Doing it in C#, takes 150ms round trip.

Trying to do it in assembly--aiming for 15ms round trip.

My advice, Jason Fielder's method is juvenile, more benefits can be had if you build your own.
  • #119
  • Dec 7, 2011 2:04am Dec 7, 2011 2:04am
Quoting nondisclosure00
It's not rocket science how they did it either.

As soon as I can get some time, hopefully before the end of the year, I'll have the same thing in MS Excel.
Ya and the $2000 system is fully manual!???
What that means is that you have to be sitting on your chair and ready to click your mouse to enter the trade and exit it.

You can't tell when it will give a signal to enter, it is like asking a guy to stare at the sky and take pictures of any shooting stars.
You better not Blink or you might miss it.

A good Arbitrage system should be automated with rules on when to enter and exit the trade.
  • #120
  • Dec 7, 2011 6:13am Dec 7, 2011 6:13am
Quoting jamon
Ya and the $2000 system is fully manual!???
What that means is that you have to be sitting on your chair and ready to click your mouse to enter the trade and exit it.

You can't tell when it will give a signal to enter, it is like asking a guy to stare at the sky and take pictures of any shooting stars.
You better not Blink or you might miss it.

A good Arbitrage system should be automated with rules on when to enter and exit the trade.
My suspicion behind the lack of automation is the potential for lawsuits. The brokers used in the example can slip an order by a few tenths of a pip.
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